Time to start Lion Air p2f Programme
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Time to start Lion Air p2f Programme
I am considering entering the eagle jet line training with Lion Air, but I have heard that the pilots who enroll on the previous programme with one year contract took six months to be called and almost six months to begin the line training, Can someone who is flying on Lion Air through eagle jet program help clarifying the doubts.
Thank you
Thank you
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I have a friend there now, he was actually called pretty fast after his TR was done, but he failed his first OPC, and got stuck for 6 months before he got back into the sim again.
Was tough, but he is happy there now for the moment!
Was tough, but he is happy there now for the moment!
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In Berlin, however I heard he was not happy with the TR, he blamed them for not being up to the standards of Lion Air's requirement. It was one of the ones recommended by Eagle Jet.
so if i understand well: you are going to spend around 50k eur extra to get a job????
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The people I know working for Lion Air did the Type Rating with CAE, 27500 euro. 2 or 3 month's later they were in Indonesia and they were paid from the day of arrival. This was over the last 2 years. They fly a lot and life is not to bad there (if you're a bit open to new cultures)
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Erm..... No!! you don't get paid when you arrive in Jakarta, you will only get paid when you've completed your 500hrs and signed the contract with lionair.
Only MSD paid when you arrived in Jakarta but I think they've lost the contract.
Only MSD paid when you arrived in Jakarta but I think they've lost the contract.
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Insane!
LION AIR:
"Human error has been the biggest source of air accidents in Indonesia. According to the National Committee for Transportation Safety,
52 percent of all aircraft accidents between 2007 and 2011 were caused by human error."
" Lion Air is not only FAA and E.U. blacklisted, but one of the least on-time and most-dangerous airlines in the region.
First and foremost, LionAir (along with many other Indonesian carriers) is on the list of airlines banned in the European Union due to safety concerns. This list is exactly what it sounds like—a blacklist. Most of the airlines on the EU blacklist are located in the African continent, apart from a few former Soviet bloc countries, North Korea, and, of course, Indonesia. The FAA maintains an equivalent blacklist watchlist (thank you Brett for the correction), which lists carriers which fall under category 2 or higher of the FAA’s International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) Program (ie. countries audited as not meeting ICAO standards). Lion Air is on this watchlist due to its location in Indonesia as well.
Secondly, Lion Air has grounded 13 of its aircraft for reserve use due to sanctions from the transport minitry caused by poor OTP (on-time performance). According to the Jakarta Post, the Indonesian transportation ministry recorded that Lion Air’s OTP was the worst of those surveyed by 66.45% in an assessment conducted from January to April 2011 at 24 airports nationwide. If you think isolation of this figure is unfair to Lion, consider that Lion Air’s close competitor Garuda managed an 86.9% OTP within the same period.
Any red flags yet? Let’s add another log to the fire.
Lion Air Flight 538 crashed at Adi Sumarmo Airport in Surakarta, killing 25 people.
Lion Air has crashed 5 aircraft since operations began 12 years ago in 1999, including a 737-200 in 2002, an MD-82 in 2006, a 737-400 in 2006, a 737-400 in 2010 and a fatal MD-82 crash in 2004 which killed 25 people. Aviation Herald has 19 incidents on record for Lion Air, including those already mentioned. Using the crash statistics alone, the airline has encountered an average of one crash every 2 years, which by those stats indicates Lion Air is due for another incident sometime in 2012. Let’s hope they’ve learned a thing or two since 2010, and have implemented new safety regulations to avoid one. It’s worth noting that Lion Air has not technically “crashed” any of its more modern New Generation 737s, however they do appear to have an issue with runway overruns, racking up 11 runway overruns in its 11 years of operation (with the most recent being less than a month ago at Balikpapan Airport on Oct 23rd 2011 with a 737-900). Would you let your children fly Lion Air?"
Would you let your child Fly for Lion Air?
P2F:
PAY $$$$ up front then "Fly a minimum of 100h per month, so you get your 500hrs in about 5-6 months time...
After that, a contract is offered to you (local terms)"
"Human error has been the biggest source of air accidents in Indonesia. According to the National Committee for Transportation Safety,
52 percent of all aircraft accidents between 2007 and 2011 were caused by human error."
" Lion Air is not only FAA and E.U. blacklisted, but one of the least on-time and most-dangerous airlines in the region.
First and foremost, LionAir (along with many other Indonesian carriers) is on the list of airlines banned in the European Union due to safety concerns. This list is exactly what it sounds like—a blacklist. Most of the airlines on the EU blacklist are located in the African continent, apart from a few former Soviet bloc countries, North Korea, and, of course, Indonesia. The FAA maintains an equivalent blacklist watchlist (thank you Brett for the correction), which lists carriers which fall under category 2 or higher of the FAA’s International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) Program (ie. countries audited as not meeting ICAO standards). Lion Air is on this watchlist due to its location in Indonesia as well.
Secondly, Lion Air has grounded 13 of its aircraft for reserve use due to sanctions from the transport minitry caused by poor OTP (on-time performance). According to the Jakarta Post, the Indonesian transportation ministry recorded that Lion Air’s OTP was the worst of those surveyed by 66.45% in an assessment conducted from January to April 2011 at 24 airports nationwide. If you think isolation of this figure is unfair to Lion, consider that Lion Air’s close competitor Garuda managed an 86.9% OTP within the same period.
Any red flags yet? Let’s add another log to the fire.
Lion Air Flight 538 crashed at Adi Sumarmo Airport in Surakarta, killing 25 people.
Lion Air has crashed 5 aircraft since operations began 12 years ago in 1999, including a 737-200 in 2002, an MD-82 in 2006, a 737-400 in 2006, a 737-400 in 2010 and a fatal MD-82 crash in 2004 which killed 25 people. Aviation Herald has 19 incidents on record for Lion Air, including those already mentioned. Using the crash statistics alone, the airline has encountered an average of one crash every 2 years, which by those stats indicates Lion Air is due for another incident sometime in 2012. Let’s hope they’ve learned a thing or two since 2010, and have implemented new safety regulations to avoid one. It’s worth noting that Lion Air has not technically “crashed” any of its more modern New Generation 737s, however they do appear to have an issue with runway overruns, racking up 11 runway overruns in its 11 years of operation (with the most recent being less than a month ago at Balikpapan Airport on Oct 23rd 2011 with a 737-900). Would you let your children fly Lion Air?"
Would you let your child Fly for Lion Air?
P2F:
PAY $$$$ up front then "Fly a minimum of 100h per month, so you get your 500hrs in about 5-6 months time...
After that, a contract is offered to you (local terms)"
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Utter cobblers chaps. This is pprune not an ICAO safety meeting.
If you are in the front you are responsible for your own actions and safety. You should pitch these thoughts to passenger consumer groups. The chaps at Lion have a set of controls infront of them.
Lion presents a good chance to log plenty of hours in a short period of time then applying to a major carrier.
Frankly; it's a cracker!!
If you are in the front you are responsible for your own actions and safety. You should pitch these thoughts to passenger consumer groups. The chaps at Lion have a set of controls infront of them.
Lion presents a good chance to log plenty of hours in a short period of time then applying to a major carrier.
Frankly; it's a cracker!!
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I say go for it, but it important to know
Neither of that matters. For the statements to be effective you need to have a standard. Lion Air hasn't got one.
It has been regarded as the last chance saloon for the fool and his money. I have seen the 'standard' of the Lion Air product and IMHO I would be happier with someone who has 500hrs on Microsoft FS and a copy of the B737 FCTM. Simply 'logging' 500hrs on a 737 doesn't mean you will gain any relative experience. You will probably be tainted for life and need considerable retraining, if you ever get the opportunity. These so called 'major carriers' are running a mile, believe me.
If you are in the front you are responsible for your own actions and safety.
The chaps at Lion have a set of controls infront of them.
Lion presents a good chance to log plenty of hours in a short period of time then applying to a major carrier.
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"Callsign Kilo "
What you proclaim is a load of BS!
I know plenty of Scandi pilots gone trough EJ, and now working with other airlines, they got the hours, the experience, passed their assessment, OPC, Line checks, that's what matters!
It seems Lion's training standards was higher than the TR provider in Berlin!
Correct the TR is not the expensive part, is the extras, waiting around, courses in different parts of the world, extra sims etc.
It's not just TR and paying for 500 hours!
Step to far for me, but for anybody doing it, good luck, stop the normal slagging match about the P2F! Everybody will do what they have to do to get an advantage in their career!
It's not a game, it's real life!
What you proclaim is a load of BS!
I know plenty of Scandi pilots gone trough EJ, and now working with other airlines, they got the hours, the experience, passed their assessment, OPC, Line checks, that's what matters!
It seems Lion's training standards was higher than the TR provider in Berlin!
Correct the TR is not the expensive part, is the extras, waiting around, courses in different parts of the world, extra sims etc.
It's not just TR and paying for 500 hours!
Step to far for me, but for anybody doing it, good luck, stop the normal slagging match about the P2F! Everybody will do what they have to do to get an advantage in their career!
It's not a game, it's real life!
they got the hours, the experience, passed their assessment, OPC, Line checks, that's what matters!
A group of Lion Air cadets did their type rating alongside us at CAE in Amsterdam a few years ago. They were taught (what seemed like) similar stuff, by the same instructors (IIRC) and seemed intelligent guys. Criticisms of Lion Air are not criticisms of the abilities of the cadets. But 500 hours of flying with insane Captains in marginal weather in a poor crm environment is not 'good experience'.
I also have a friend who went there and he said it was terrifying flying for them. He was ill, lost his medical and then got dropped by them. You see, it doesn't matter how 'good' you think the raw product coming out of the TRTO, it's what happens on the line that matters.
Contrast Lion Air's reputation, blacklisting and basic terms and conditions with Ryanair and you can see why FR has an excellent safety record (touch wood) and provides pilots to many major airlines.
Go to Lion Air at your peril.
No one knows the names.
Mr Truckflyer,
I have noticed on these threads about Lion Air and the other P2F schemes that there are a minority of people defending the practice and claiming to know people who have come out of Lion Air or whoever else and landed jobs with world class respectable airlines.
In the last six or so months not one person has come onto pprune and claimed to be a graduate of said schemes and landed a job at Qatar/BA/Gulf Air/AF/Flydubai etc. There are a number who have completed the courses and still don't have a job which I would say are the majority.
Stop believing these rumours. You only do this because you want them to be true. If it was true there would be a whole thread dedicated to the wonders of Lion Air and it's amazing pay to fly package.
I have noticed on these threads about Lion Air and the other P2F schemes that there are a minority of people defending the practice and claiming to know people who have come out of Lion Air or whoever else and landed jobs with world class respectable airlines.
In the last six or so months not one person has come onto pprune and claimed to be a graduate of said schemes and landed a job at Qatar/BA/Gulf Air/AF/Flydubai etc. There are a number who have completed the courses and still don't have a job which I would say are the majority.
Stop believing these rumours. You only do this because you want them to be true. If it was true there would be a whole thread dedicated to the wonders of Lion Air and it's amazing pay to fly package.
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@pilotchute
When was the last time anyone came on this thread to compliment anything? People only seem to post if they have something to complain about and not the opposite.
When was the last time anyone came on this thread to compliment anything? People only seem to post if they have something to complain about and not the opposite.
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Lot of spanish pilots are doing that program/are about to start it. I know at least 6 of them, all aged between 23-25, all ex-mates from my flight school. Low houred pilots.
They really believe LionAir it is the best you can find right now. "At least you're flying, you will gain more than 2000h at the end", they said to me. The overall cost is more than 50.000€ if you take into account the TR+LT+ Self expenses (housing, food, etc) during 8months-1year.
But.. after the LT, what? LionAir says "4 years of employ, guaranteed".
Are you sure you will get a job? I mean.. you're paying a big amount of money dude, are you 100% sure you will get a job for 4 years? If that's true.. what about your future salary, can you tell me anything? 1500$-2000$? It is important too.
And.. at the end of the 4 years, what if you want to come to Europe? Will you be accepted? I have heard "that kind" of pilots might be blacklisted in Europe (because of the poor SOPs there).
Well, nobody of them knew the answer to these questions. They are taking it as an adventure.
I know a pilot who did that program about 4 years ago and now he's flying the 737-8, airline pilot. He's earning more than 3000$/month, things went well for him but he didn't trust LionAir/Eaglejet. He told me "be careful about the 4 years contract.. they will do whatever they want to do with you""
Be careful. You can ruin your family.
They really believe LionAir it is the best you can find right now. "At least you're flying, you will gain more than 2000h at the end", they said to me. The overall cost is more than 50.000€ if you take into account the TR+LT+ Self expenses (housing, food, etc) during 8months-1year.
But.. after the LT, what? LionAir says "4 years of employ, guaranteed".
Are you sure you will get a job? I mean.. you're paying a big amount of money dude, are you 100% sure you will get a job for 4 years? If that's true.. what about your future salary, can you tell me anything? 1500$-2000$? It is important too.
And.. at the end of the 4 years, what if you want to come to Europe? Will you be accepted? I have heard "that kind" of pilots might be blacklisted in Europe (because of the poor SOPs there).
Well, nobody of them knew the answer to these questions. They are taking it as an adventure.
I know a pilot who did that program about 4 years ago and now he's flying the 737-8, airline pilot. He's earning more than 3000$/month, things went well for him but he didn't trust LionAir/Eaglejet. He told me "be careful about the 4 years contract.. they will do whatever they want to do with you""
Be careful. You can ruin your family.