LION AIR(Merged 2011 - 12)
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Is there anyone here who has applied for the line training program and is still waiting to go to Jakarta? If so how long have you been waiting and if anyone knows what the average waiting time is from applying to going to Jakarta?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Why Batavia?
Tryckflyer
I bought this up as Batavia also offers P2f. I know this thread is about Lion Air but it reflects the country as a whole and needs to be taken into account. If the guy training you is sub standard then you will be sub standard.
As for your friend needing extra training, did all the people in his class need extra training or just him? If everyone needed it then maybe the standard is high but if it was just him maybe he just needed some extra sims. No shame in that. We all learn at different speeds. Secondly, was this "extra training" having to be paid for by him or is it included in the price?
I bought this up as Batavia also offers P2f. I know this thread is about Lion Air but it reflects the country as a whole and needs to be taken into account. If the guy training you is sub standard then you will be sub standard.
As for your friend needing extra training, did all the people in his class need extra training or just him? If everyone needed it then maybe the standard is high but if it was just him maybe he just needed some extra sims. No shame in that. We all learn at different speeds. Secondly, was this "extra training" having to be paid for by him or is it included in the price?
Join Date: Nov 2011
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tarmac12 - I agree with your conclusion regarding the training captains, however not every captain is a training captain, but not going to start splitting hairs here either.
It is not an ideal way to gain experience, personally I can see that for people like my, with age against us, having a chance this way, albeit for me not optional, I could not leave my family for 2 years to go to Indonesia, others don't have this problem.
I believe he was doing his sim check approx 4 - 5 weeks after his TR skills test, and failed it. He told me after he thought the TR had been of a much lower level then was required by the airline. (Lion)
I believe he did another 4 hours in the sim, retraining, but was made to wait almost 6 months before I got to start flying. So the time line of 500 hours + 12 month contract, has to take into consideration various courses required and time spent for this.
He is happy now, he did his re-training in HK.
It is not an ideal way to gain experience, personally I can see that for people like my, with age against us, having a chance this way, albeit for me not optional, I could not leave my family for 2 years to go to Indonesia, others don't have this problem.
I believe he was doing his sim check approx 4 - 5 weeks after his TR skills test, and failed it. He told me after he thought the TR had been of a much lower level then was required by the airline. (Lion)
I believe he did another 4 hours in the sim, retraining, but was made to wait almost 6 months before I got to start flying. So the time line of 500 hours + 12 month contract, has to take into consideration various courses required and time spent for this.
He is happy now, he did his re-training in HK.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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making fun of you.
Thanks gligg,
You got a good laugh out of me.
Truck flyer, Sorry to hear your friend got mucked around so much. I did some right hand seat work with a guy last week (ICUS) and he wasn't anywhere close to the standard I thought he would be at. He was endorsed on type and had about 150 hours doing ferry runs. After about 4 days of solid flying with us he was getting it together and eventually got checked to line (not by me). Like your friend, this guy had used a training provider he thought was very good (I thought a German TRTO would be top notch). In reality it was cheap (fixed price) and they got pushed through.
I know with the Eagle Jet scheme you can already have a rating but do CAE require you to do it with them? Sounds like it might be a better idea to do your rating with the training provider or whoever they suggest so you don't end up like truckflyers mate who waited 12 months!
I found out yesterday that a guy I did my ME IR with a few years ago is still looking for a job. He is doing it through an Indian company with Lion Air. He was an international student at the school and said the job prospects in his country are so bad now that if he doesn't do the Lion Air programme he has run out of options. Apparantly the Indian guys get 3 year contracts after 500 hours. Anyone heard of this?
You got a good laugh out of me.
Truck flyer, Sorry to hear your friend got mucked around so much. I did some right hand seat work with a guy last week (ICUS) and he wasn't anywhere close to the standard I thought he would be at. He was endorsed on type and had about 150 hours doing ferry runs. After about 4 days of solid flying with us he was getting it together and eventually got checked to line (not by me). Like your friend, this guy had used a training provider he thought was very good (I thought a German TRTO would be top notch). In reality it was cheap (fixed price) and they got pushed through.
I know with the Eagle Jet scheme you can already have a rating but do CAE require you to do it with them? Sounds like it might be a better idea to do your rating with the training provider or whoever they suggest so you don't end up like truckflyers mate who waited 12 months!
I found out yesterday that a guy I did my ME IR with a few years ago is still looking for a job. He is doing it through an Indian company with Lion Air. He was an international student at the school and said the job prospects in his country are so bad now that if he doesn't do the Lion Air programme he has run out of options. Apparantly the Indian guys get 3 year contracts after 500 hours. Anyone heard of this?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Yep... there are alot of indians here with Lion... run by a serving indian FO .Kush B. a CAE (india) Candidate..and his friend in India.. use the pprune search..you can find a lot of info. but he used this route to get into the company then offered lion to supply indian pilots for the ER. now he looking for ATR pilots.. I guess using him is cheaper than using other agencies...
But there are reports from instructors that his guys are also not to lion standards in the sim etc. as the indian guys boasting they were. retraining needed.. which of course comes from the candidate pocket.
But there are reports from instructors that his guys are also not to lion standards in the sim etc. as the indian guys boasting they were. retraining needed.. which of course comes from the candidate pocket.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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If I was in reverse and reversed again, then I'd be goin' forwards. 
Seriously, I'd hold things for the time being to see whether Lion is still using EJ (Lion may be oversupplied by MSD anyway).
As for the elusive "Partner Airline", I believe there is none this year. Any positive news of late, anyone ?
Seriously, I'd hold things for the time being to see whether Lion is still using EJ (Lion may be oversupplied by MSD anyway).
As for the elusive "Partner Airline", I believe there is none this year. Any positive news of late, anyone ?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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EJ in Asia
Well if the Indian company takes over the supply of P2f to Lion Air, EJ will have a tough time getting another NG operator in Asia to take its customers. They can't do it in China as Foreign FO's are forbidden and I cant see China Airlines (Taiwan) or any Indian Airline doing it as they already have established cadet schemes or feeder schools. Dont think you can have foreign FO's in India anymore anyway.
You would have to look at Africa for NG operators and I don't think Africa will appeal to that many people.
Maybe a middle east carrier? Anyone got any ideas? I thought MAS might pick some up as they are in need of pilots and money right now but they only have 6 NG's and the rest are 400's.
You would have to look at Africa for NG operators and I don't think Africa will appeal to that many people.
Maybe a middle east carrier? Anyone got any ideas? I thought MAS might pick some up as they are in need of pilots and money right now but they only have 6 NG's and the rest are 400's.
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Already have contracts
Jetjockey,
My question was who will they team up with (EJ that is ) to do the package? Skies consultancy is an established operator and I don't think they would let EJ muscle in on the airlines they already use. Which leaves the question as to who it will be if Lion is out of the picture.
By the way EJ still advertises on its site that it has a NG programme with Asian bases (even though its only had one for a while) so maybe they are the last to know?
My question was who will they team up with (EJ that is ) to do the package? Skies consultancy is an established operator and I don't think they would let EJ muscle in on the airlines they already use. Which leaves the question as to who it will be if Lion is out of the picture.
By the way EJ still advertises on its site that it has a NG programme with Asian bases (even though its only had one for a while) so maybe they are the last to know?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Tarmac 12
Sorry I wrote the statement wrong... What I trying to say Middle east has already. P2F run by Skies.
Lion will always need pilots Capt and FO, as the turn over rate is high in LIon. So pilot are supplied by Eaglejet and MSD.. and maybe CAE.. Why would Lion stop the supply, if they stop. where are they going to get pilots.. since they are not going to give markets rate salary for there pilots.. besides they are not accepting anyone who apply direct..
DOnt let people scary and worry with words. its christmas time all hiring has stop in most part of the world too. until the new year. Sit back have a few drinks and a big fat turkey dinner.
Dont worry you have your time in hell too...
Sorry I wrote the statement wrong... What I trying to say Middle east has already. P2F run by Skies.
Lion will always need pilots Capt and FO, as the turn over rate is high in LIon. So pilot are supplied by Eaglejet and MSD.. and maybe CAE.. Why would Lion stop the supply, if they stop. where are they going to get pilots.. since they are not going to give markets rate salary for there pilots.. besides they are not accepting anyone who apply direct..
DOnt let people scary and worry with words. its christmas time all hiring has stop in most part of the world too. until the new year. Sit back have a few drinks and a big fat turkey dinner.
Dont worry you have your time in hell too...
Join Date: Jul 2011
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It would be rather amusing if P2F training providers started competing with each other over who can give the airline the biggest cut rather than who can give the student the best deal.
No airline = No students and vice versa. Looks like we know which way it's likely to tip...
No airline = No students and vice versa. Looks like we know which way it's likely to tip...
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The worm turns
Jetjockey,
I know you are on the coal face at Lion and for that I commend you. The conditions are not ideal I have heard. P2f or not you are working hard and these trying circumstances must make it harder still.
So, if you want to pay 30 something big one's no experience needed but if you want a direct entry FO gig then you must have a 1000 hours on type? What are they offering 4000USD a month? Fly Dubai is only offering 8k I think. Who on earth would go to Lion for that when there are so many better offers around?
This just goes to show just how out of touch the Lion management are in terms of T&C's at other airlines. I'm sure they will be flooded with apps from other 737 operators where the conditions are so much worse. Actually I think only Afghan has worse conditions than Lion.
Jetjockey, can you tell us the low dowm on the deal? I'm just speculating of course!
I know you are on the coal face at Lion and for that I commend you. The conditions are not ideal I have heard. P2f or not you are working hard and these trying circumstances must make it harder still.
So, if you want to pay 30 something big one's no experience needed but if you want a direct entry FO gig then you must have a 1000 hours on type? What are they offering 4000USD a month? Fly Dubai is only offering 8k I think. Who on earth would go to Lion for that when there are so many better offers around?
This just goes to show just how out of touch the Lion management are in terms of T&C's at other airlines. I'm sure they will be flooded with apps from other 737 operators where the conditions are so much worse. Actually I think only Afghan has worse conditions than Lion.
Jetjockey, can you tell us the low dowm on the deal? I'm just speculating of course!