BA Future Pilot Programme (FPP)(Merged)
From the BA press office earlier today (Google is your friend):
British Airways’ Statement On APD « British Airways Press Office
British Airways’ Statement On APD « British Airways Press Office
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A couple of points perhaps worthy of consideration:
Williams mentioned that many of these jobs would have been for young people, and the article quotes him as continuing to mention "new graduates and school-leavers". This would point to me as referring to perhaps the internships BA have done over the past few years for Engineering and other support jobs.
A lot of the information released does seem to mention 'support of operations' and similar phrases, so perhaps the impact on flight crew may not be as bad as many here are thinking.
Certainly I would hazard that the 800 jobs mentioned are not entirely the flight crew recruitment numbers.
A further point, more of a technicality, is that the information refers to jobs in 2012, and it is known that those applying for the FPP are not employed until the TR has been completed, which will be at the earliest in 2013.
In conclusion, I would say that the effects of this may well impact on the FPP and DEP routes, although not making the entirety of the recruitment cut. Either way, BA are showing quite clearly their unhappiness with APD (and a valid point they have too in my opinion).
Williams mentioned that many of these jobs would have been for young people, and the article quotes him as continuing to mention "new graduates and school-leavers". This would point to me as referring to perhaps the internships BA have done over the past few years for Engineering and other support jobs.
A lot of the information released does seem to mention 'support of operations' and similar phrases, so perhaps the impact on flight crew may not be as bad as many here are thinking.
Certainly I would hazard that the 800 jobs mentioned are not entirely the flight crew recruitment numbers.
A further point, more of a technicality, is that the information refers to jobs in 2012, and it is known that those applying for the FPP are not employed until the TR has been completed, which will be at the earliest in 2013.
In conclusion, I would say that the effects of this may well impact on the FPP and DEP routes, although not making the entirety of the recruitment cut. Either way, BA are showing quite clearly their unhappiness with APD (and a valid point they have too in my opinion).
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APD is not solely responsbile for this infact it's more of a smoke screen for what's really happening. With the european block expected to go into recession and BA/IAG being a european company it's not hard to deduce that they expect a slowdown thus a cut in bods they are going to take.
Reminds me of the TUI scheme at FTE only 2 groups being taken on and the rest being flogged off to flybe or not being taken on at all. If you are entering debt for the chance off enployment i would seriously analyse the risk to reward ratio before you proceed.
This is not going to be over by 2013 not by a long shot. The patient is badly injured and putting plasters over the cracks will not heal it.
Therefore, from their point of view they may as well still put cadets through flight schools as they are not contractually obliged to provide employment.
This is not going to be over by 2013 not by a long shot. The patient is badly injured and putting plasters over the cracks will not heal it.
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APD & FPP
I don't want to curl into a ball and hug myself rocking in a darkened room just yet, but a voice in the back of my head is saying "unbelievable, here we go again, you get right to the final hurdle of getting in to BA, just 2 days from a 'yes or a 'no' with favourable odds and something nasty comes up and bites you in the @ss"
Good job I have an optimistic outlook on life...
Good job I have an optimistic outlook on life...
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getting in to BA
If we were actually paying for it then that's another matter entirely but we are not. The downside risk for anyone that has to take out a loan is to great!
Good luck to you all. Speaking to a birdie in HR today most of you are going to be disappointed ah well that's life.
- bless! You don't actually work for BA - it's all a dream...
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The positive is that as things are configured I can't see why BA would halt the FPP (at least this round) - they have nothing to lose!
The negative is linked to the above in so much as all the risk is loaded on the FPP 'successful applicant'. If you get through, have your eyes wide open - you've paid for their recruitment costs, you'll provide upfront financing for their training needs and ultimately if/when their business need changes (and it most certainly isn't improving), YOU will be holding the debt. Think wisely with your head and not your heart. Good luck to all.
The negative is linked to the above in so much as all the risk is loaded on the FPP 'successful applicant'. If you get through, have your eyes wide open - you've paid for their recruitment costs, you'll provide upfront financing for their training needs and ultimately if/when their business need changes (and it most certainly isn't improving), YOU will be holding the debt. Think wisely with your head and not your heart. Good luck to all.
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Sure the student is holding the debt, but BA acts as a guarantor. In my opinion there's a difference with fully privately financed programs, where your parent's mortgage is the guarantee.
Obviously the contract BA offers is conditional. They offer a contract. A contract is always based on ifs and thens. An unconditional offer would be a blanco cheque. No company does that, especially in an industry as volatile as the airline business.
Besides, I agree with 4015 @#1056. The FPP-jobs aren't required for another 2 years.
Obviously the contract BA offers is conditional. They offer a contract. A contract is always based on ifs and thens. An unconditional offer would be a blanco cheque. No company does that, especially in an industry as volatile as the airline business.
Besides, I agree with 4015 @#1056. The FPP-jobs aren't required for another 2 years.
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bluearrow
bluevein wrote: "Speaking to a Birdie in HR today blah, blah, blah........."
Of course you were
BTW: you weren't that rather excitable youth stood on the spectators balcony at Manchester Airport on Saturday morning waving to passing planes were you? If so, ditch the matching woollen hat, scarf and mittens if you want to get a girlfriend.
Of course you were
BTW: you weren't that rather excitable youth stood on the spectators balcony at Manchester Airport on Saturday morning waving to passing planes were you? If so, ditch the matching woollen hat, scarf and mittens if you want to get a girlfriend.
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What a week and some lovely news to add to constant tension of checking emails every 5 minutes – I have never hated SPAM more.
The outlook is looking grim but I’m sure there is going to be a few people who will be partying hard come Friday – they better let us know by then and not have it dragging into next week
Good luck to everyone!
The outlook is looking grim but I’m sure there is going to be a few people who will be partying hard come Friday – they better let us know by then and not have it dragging into next week
Good luck to everyone!
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Possibly, but I suspect it should have read: "...was speaking to a Birdie in HR here at Virtual BA..."
Shortly before he came back from the dark side of the moon for a couple of minutes to stand waving at aircraft (and dreaming) at MAN...
Shortly before he came back from the dark side of the moon for a couple of minutes to stand waving at aircraft (and dreaming) at MAN...
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I was thinking along similar lines to Loosehead... BA have said that they will act as guarantor for the borrowings, if a candidate wishes to pursue this particular financing route. I certainly have some questions about the whole thing, and if I happen to receive an email with a big "Yes" in it, I will be making an appointment with some sort of financial adviser, and possibly an employment lawyer too...
Let's imagine the case of a spritely young cadet on course "FPP1" who completes an A320 type rating, only to discover that BA don't have space for him. For argument's sake, he has no significant assets to speak of, and fails at securing any sort of employment elsewhere. He defaults on his loan repayments and, as guarantor, British Airways are liable for the debt. Am I right?
Now we imagine cadet number two, who is ever so slightly more spritely, and who also successfully completes "FPP1" with an A320 TR, and manages eventually to secure an entry-level ground based position with another carrier, and begins to earn a salary of £16000. Similarly, he cannot support himself and afford to maintain his loan payments simultaneously. He does, however, earn enough money to pay his creditors, in principle. Who is liable for his borrowings?
In the meantime, a couple of points - this composite BA recruiting strategy involving FPP, DEP and managed path - is designed to fill the seats that will be created by the new fleets that are due to enter service, and those created through retirements. There is no indication, at present, that either of these is affected by APD increase, or the deeper undercurrents that are the affecting the business as a whole. That is not to say that A380 and 787 will not be under threat in the future. We have heard about removing a 744 next summer, and maybe 2 more. This isn't great news, but that is an issue for the short term, and any recruitment issues arising should be met by the short term recruiting tool - DEP.
Having just spent three years completing an air transport management degree, and patiently awaiting the BA reply, it did occur to me yesterday when I heard the APD news that the only positive I can draw from this is that I won't have to write 5000 words on it...
Let's imagine the case of a spritely young cadet on course "FPP1" who completes an A320 type rating, only to discover that BA don't have space for him. For argument's sake, he has no significant assets to speak of, and fails at securing any sort of employment elsewhere. He defaults on his loan repayments and, as guarantor, British Airways are liable for the debt. Am I right?
Now we imagine cadet number two, who is ever so slightly more spritely, and who also successfully completes "FPP1" with an A320 TR, and manages eventually to secure an entry-level ground based position with another carrier, and begins to earn a salary of £16000. Similarly, he cannot support himself and afford to maintain his loan payments simultaneously. He does, however, earn enough money to pay his creditors, in principle. Who is liable for his borrowings?
In the meantime, a couple of points - this composite BA recruiting strategy involving FPP, DEP and managed path - is designed to fill the seats that will be created by the new fleets that are due to enter service, and those created through retirements. There is no indication, at present, that either of these is affected by APD increase, or the deeper undercurrents that are the affecting the business as a whole. That is not to say that A380 and 787 will not be under threat in the future. We have heard about removing a 744 next summer, and maybe 2 more. This isn't great news, but that is an issue for the short term, and any recruitment issues arising should be met by the short term recruiting tool - DEP.
Having just spent three years completing an air transport management degree, and patiently awaiting the BA reply, it did occur to me yesterday when I heard the APD news that the only positive I can draw from this is that I won't have to write 5000 words on it...
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bluevein wrote: "Speaking to a Birdie in HR today blah, blah, blah........."
Of course you were
BTW: you weren't that rather excitable youth stood on the spectators balcony at Manchester Airport on Saturday morning waving to passing planes were you? If so, ditch the matching woollen hat, scarf and mittens if you want to get a girlfriend.
Possibly, but I suspect it should have read: "...was speaking to a Birdie in HR here at Virtual BA..."
Shortly before he came back from the dark side of the moon for a couple of minutes to stand waving at aircraft (and dreaming) at MAN...
Of course you were
BTW: you weren't that rather excitable youth stood on the spectators balcony at Manchester Airport on Saturday morning waving to passing planes were you? If so, ditch the matching woollen hat, scarf and mittens if you want to get a girlfriend.
Possibly, but I suspect it should have read: "...was speaking to a Birdie in HR here at Virtual BA..."
Shortly before he came back from the dark side of the moon for a couple of minutes to stand waving at aircraft (and dreaming) at MAN...
The negative is linked to the above in so much as all the risk is loaded on the FPP 'successful applicant'. If you get through, have your eyes wide open - you've paid for their recruitment costs, you'll provide upfront financing for their training needs and ultimately if/when their business need changes (and it most certainly isn't improving), YOU will be holding the debt. Think wisely with your head and not your heart. Good luck to all.
Good luck to you all i shall say no more on this suject except to echo DSB's remark of think wisely with your head and not your heart.
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He defaults on his loan repayments and, as guarantor, British Airways are liable for the debt. Am I right?
Good luck to everyone waiting to hear from them. I hope they run it again is subsequent years so I will have the chance to apply!
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BA have said that they will act as guarantor for the borrowings, if a candidate wishes to pursue this particular financing route.
If you’re not in a position to secure an asset-based loan then you could be eligible for our British Airways guaranteed loan scheme. If this is the case, our partner bank will run a thorough check of your credit history. Should this come back clear and you pass the Future Pilot Programme selection process, British Airways could act as your loan guarantor.
He defaults on his loan repayments and, as guarantor, British Airways are liable for the debt. Am I right?
This is exactly what I was wondering...? I would say yes as they have secured the loan.
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From the outside it really could go a few different ways.
There has over the last few weeks since the start of selection been quite marked changes in europe and to be honest globally as well.
The accountants really do rule the day. If some analyst has walked in the door and announced after xyz has occured our exposure is xxxx million if we do this yyyy million if we do that and our safe option is this for zzz million. They will go for the zzz million option. If that option doesn't include the program that will be it. It doesn't matter what flight training want, fleet managment want, thats what will happen.
Personally I wouldn't be suprised if they take a token few on and set up a hold pool with the rest.
Then in 5 years time pull the plug on the pool and start again if required.
Or they could take the whole lot, it really does depend on the market analysts say.
And if you think you lot are pissed off with what ever happens. I can assure you there will be just as many pissed off folk in the company who truely believe that taking you on is the correct thing to do, for the benifit of the company.
But the bean counters will always win.
There has over the last few weeks since the start of selection been quite marked changes in europe and to be honest globally as well.
The accountants really do rule the day. If some analyst has walked in the door and announced after xyz has occured our exposure is xxxx million if we do this yyyy million if we do that and our safe option is this for zzz million. They will go for the zzz million option. If that option doesn't include the program that will be it. It doesn't matter what flight training want, fleet managment want, thats what will happen.
Personally I wouldn't be suprised if they take a token few on and set up a hold pool with the rest.
Then in 5 years time pull the plug on the pool and start again if required.
Or they could take the whole lot, it really does depend on the market analysts say.
And if you think you lot are pissed off with what ever happens. I can assure you there will be just as many pissed off folk in the company who truely believe that taking you on is the correct thing to do, for the benifit of the company.
But the bean counters will always win.