To those of us who are not flying..how are you dealing with it?
Join Date: Dec 2010
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dudes, I'm gonna start TWPAWS Inc (Tricked Wannabe Pilots Anonymous World Services Inc).
At first we can have online meetings over skype or something and talk how you cope with unemployment and frustration of seeing idiots getting A320 jobs, later on, when I make a fortune out of your admission and membership costs, I am gonna open branches all over the Europe and we can have live meetings...and maybe we could start a lottery, the winner gets EJ 737/320 program (one with the 500LT)...that would be awesome
At first we can have online meetings over skype or something and talk how you cope with unemployment and frustration of seeing idiots getting A320 jobs, later on, when I make a fortune out of your admission and membership costs, I am gonna open branches all over the Europe and we can have live meetings...and maybe we could start a lottery, the winner gets EJ 737/320 program (one with the 500LT)...that would be awesome
Join Date: Feb 2007
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nobody 'has' to give you anything, you are not entitled to anything. Stop expecting it to come from nowhere. All you can do is keep ploughing away at it.
I also fly one of the above with no prior airline-family and never got handed a single coin (debt free as of two years, with great income)
Three desperate years between CPL and job during the worst period.
Fact is, there are too many CPLs for the amount of available jobs.
Sorry if this isn't inspiring...
Good luck to all
I also fly one of the above with no prior airline-family and never got handed a single coin (debt free as of two years, with great income)
Three desperate years between CPL and job during the worst period.
Fact is, there are too many CPLs for the amount of available jobs.
Sorry if this isn't inspiring...
Good luck to all
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Dozza2k, in 4 years time if i get into anything that has wings i will be happy enough. No bitter mate, just a bit frustration i would call it. And u never know, i might have done the same if i was rich or had ''good'' connections...
KAG, not sure if im getting this ''self fulfilling back-up plan'' right but for sure its not my main one. Yes, i ve spent lots of money and time achieving it but at least now im not sitting around crying about this unpleasant situation. Instead, im being patient and waiting for the right moment to fulfill my ultimate goal... And trust me , im not one of those candidates you re describing as i would like to build my way up , gain experience and have stories to talk about with my captain during these long night shifts above the Alps...
You are saying ''its extremely easy to be a pilot''
Really? Where have u been all these years mate?! PM me with the slightest solid job opportunity anywhere in the world!
I ll have to agree with the last part of ur post since im getting a bit scared when time goes by working on an interesting industry, with a decent salary, living at a relatively rich and warm country Because This Is What I Want Mate! I wanna wake up 3am drive an hour to the airport check in and brief with my colleagues apply TO power and hit the skies perform a challenging approach have a cold beer flert with the ladies sleep in a cheap motel and do this over and over again for the rest of my life... But since this is the hard path, im perfectly fine with the bush path, and if u r saying its easy to go through this...please be my friend
KAG, not sure if im getting this ''self fulfilling back-up plan'' right but for sure its not my main one. Yes, i ve spent lots of money and time achieving it but at least now im not sitting around crying about this unpleasant situation. Instead, im being patient and waiting for the right moment to fulfill my ultimate goal... And trust me , im not one of those candidates you re describing as i would like to build my way up , gain experience and have stories to talk about with my captain during these long night shifts above the Alps...
You are saying ''its extremely easy to be a pilot''
Really? Where have u been all these years mate?! PM me with the slightest solid job opportunity anywhere in the world!I ll have to agree with the last part of ur post since im getting a bit scared when time goes by working on an interesting industry, with a decent salary, living at a relatively rich and warm country Because This Is What I Want Mate! I wanna wake up 3am drive an hour to the airport check in and brief with my colleagues apply TO power and hit the skies perform a challenging approach have a cold beer flert with the ladies sleep in a cheap motel and do this over and over again for the rest of my life... But since this is the hard path, im perfectly fine with the bush path, and if u r saying its easy to go through this...please be my friend
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Where have u been all these years mate?!
KAG, not sure if im getting this ''self fulfilling back-up plan'' right
(yes nothing is sure or solid concerning future pilot job) C210 job across the world.More important: I am not fighting against you. Defenitely not.
I somewhat understand your situation and wish you good luck. Meanwhile I say what I really beleive about the european pilot wannabe situation. We all agree you guys cannot continue like that. Some reality check cannot hurt.
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Let me tell you guys about myself.
I adopted the nickname Captain Bling during ATPL ground school when i was all pumped up with naive ideas about been set on the road to the best job on earth. I WAS going to be in the right seat in 16 months, i had no doubts.
It has been 1 year since my Blue Licence arrived. 1 year of applications ranging from 15mins of typing to 7 days of collating data on forms so giant i might as well have been applying to Air Force One.
No interviews. No reasons. Nothing.
Graduated with average results and have progressively watched the fair majority of my peers take up jobs with Ryanair, Easyjet and the like. They moan about rostering. I moan about having to feed myself on Tesco Value noodles.
Currently working in fast food, which is, for complex reasons the best job an overqualified and out of work pilot can get. I earn around £10k a year. Before tax, that is. I get the privledge of delivering fast food to the nearby Air Training School where hundreds of young hopefuls are ploughing their cash (usually their parents cash) into the same naive dream.
Not a single member of the public, nor family or friends can conceive that there really are hardly any jobs, and simply assume me to be lying about my qualification or some kind of dropout. In summary I am 25, single, broke, stuck in the lowest of jobs with no pastimes that i can afford due to all my spare time and money going to currency and applications.
I am sure loads of you guys echo this situation and possibly worse scenarios. All of us asking why we let ourselves get deluded into thinking this would be fair and that it would be easy.
At graduation i swore that i'd never give up and that oath has carried me through 12 months of hell that no professional should have to endure securing a job. The truth is though, i just don't know how much more of this bull__t i can take. Im not really ranting here to educate or seek sympathy but i want all you guys out there in the same place to know that you ain't alone.
I adopted the nickname Captain Bling during ATPL ground school when i was all pumped up with naive ideas about been set on the road to the best job on earth. I WAS going to be in the right seat in 16 months, i had no doubts.
It has been 1 year since my Blue Licence arrived. 1 year of applications ranging from 15mins of typing to 7 days of collating data on forms so giant i might as well have been applying to Air Force One.
No interviews. No reasons. Nothing.
Graduated with average results and have progressively watched the fair majority of my peers take up jobs with Ryanair, Easyjet and the like. They moan about rostering. I moan about having to feed myself on Tesco Value noodles.
Currently working in fast food, which is, for complex reasons the best job an overqualified and out of work pilot can get. I earn around £10k a year. Before tax, that is. I get the privledge of delivering fast food to the nearby Air Training School where hundreds of young hopefuls are ploughing their cash (usually their parents cash) into the same naive dream.
Not a single member of the public, nor family or friends can conceive that there really are hardly any jobs, and simply assume me to be lying about my qualification or some kind of dropout. In summary I am 25, single, broke, stuck in the lowest of jobs with no pastimes that i can afford due to all my spare time and money going to currency and applications.
I am sure loads of you guys echo this situation and possibly worse scenarios. All of us asking why we let ourselves get deluded into thinking this would be fair and that it would be easy.
At graduation i swore that i'd never give up and that oath has carried me through 12 months of hell that no professional should have to endure securing a job. The truth is though, i just don't know how much more of this bull__t i can take. Im not really ranting here to educate or seek sympathy but i want all you guys out there in the same place to know that you ain't alone.
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Well said Captain_Bling and i perfectly understand your situation.
As i said on another post, its the easiest thing critisizing and/or commenting from inside a cockpit! Because if you are there it means you have the hours and a TR! So you are all set and at least you can get a job anywhere in the world.
NO TXT SPEK
HWB
As i said on another post, its the easiest thing critisizing and/or commenting from inside a cockpit! Because if you are there it means you have the hours and a TR! So you are all set and at least you can get a job anywhere in the world.
NO TXT SPEK
HWB
Last edited by Halfwayback; 10th Jun 2011 at 12:03. Reason: Remove TXT SPEK
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Just in case you speak about me: I had neither a TR nor any experience when I got my job somewhere in the world (not even a MCC!). My first job was on a VFR single engine small airplane. When I got my first job with a basic CPL, my friends stayed in Europe were in the same position as most of you guys. My cousin tried during years to work for AF while working as an engineer (with a not that high salary and debts...), when he got accepted he had to stay years on the ground (staff job) because suddently activity went down. He got his F/O job not so long time ago, he is older than me, and he will never have in all his life all the pilot experience I already got.
I got everything I wanted from this career, even new skills like an asian language (chinese) and can now focus on getting a master degree and prepare my second career that would make me evolve professionaly and work using a bit more my brain (pilot job brings incredible experience in your life, but honestly technically speaking you are just a driver) and prevent a forseen oil shortage (or high oil price) to force me to choose.
All what I hope for you is to be able to live you pilot life, master your destiny, instead of waiting, thing that a pilot shouldn't do. A pilot has to fly, the younger the better. And a pilot has to get ready, age, loss of medical, or oil price will for sure stop his career at one point, and much sooner than you expect sometimes, escpecially for the youngest that will start flying with all the finance and energy issues we already started to face since the begining of this new century, the 21 rst.
I got everything I wanted from this career, even new skills like an asian language (chinese) and can now focus on getting a master degree and prepare my second career that would make me evolve professionaly and work using a bit more my brain (pilot job brings incredible experience in your life, but honestly technically speaking you are just a driver) and prevent a forseen oil shortage (or high oil price) to force me to choose.
All what I hope for you is to be able to live you pilot life, master your destiny, instead of waiting, thing that a pilot shouldn't do. A pilot has to fly, the younger the better. And a pilot has to get ready, age, loss of medical, or oil price will for sure stop his career at one point, and much sooner than you expect sometimes, escpecially for the youngest that will start flying with all the finance and energy issues we already started to face since the begining of this new century, the 21 rst.
Dear prospective pilots, I am speaking to you from the other side. If you finally get picked up on your dream job, enjoy your first couple of weeks cause its downhill from there. A couple of years down the line with 60hour weeks will exhaust you and take away that week old smile from your faces. Several of my elder colleagues tell me that there is no way they can survive to 60 in this business. To make matters worse, you have EASA that will be constantly increasing the FTL to please the lobbyists.
My point is that there is plenty of other jobs that actually will allow you to have a life, and perhaps you will end up there after a few years flying anyway. By all means if you already hold an ATPL, take a shot, but its not so shiny here that you would like to believe.
My point is that there is plenty of other jobs that actually will allow you to have a life, and perhaps you will end up there after a few years flying anyway. By all means if you already hold an ATPL, take a shot, but its not so shiny here that you would like to believe.
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my situation is-- 24 years, ing.bacc aero, fATPL, 250hrs, 50ME, took a gap year to try to find a job, naive idiot, more than 500 applications sent, 82 regret to inform you received...now trying to figure out weather to invest parents money in master's degree in aeronautics+FI(and 100hrs guaranteed-to get rid of restriction-UNPAID) or master's degree in some other field...
---the worst thing of all is that this
time is passing so quickly
---the worst thing of all is that this
time is passing so quickly
PPRuNe Handmaiden
aviator_88, with respect, do you genuinely think a Masters degree will help you get a flying job?
I would say no.
I would get a job doing any thing. Bar work, any thing. In other words, earn money. If that doesn't appeal, just do the FI. You don't need a masters for that.
I would say no.
I would get a job doing any thing. Bar work, any thing. In other words, earn money. If that doesn't appeal, just do the FI. You don't need a masters for that.
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I agree here mate, a masters degree would help you get into aviation management but not flying. Its just not worth the investment.
Consider also that during all the studying for the masters, loads of airline vacancies would pass you by. At least, im hoping they would as the market "has" to pick up sometime or other
Consider also that during all the studying for the masters, loads of airline vacancies would pass you by. At least, im hoping they would as the market "has" to pick up sometime or other
PPRuNe Handmaiden
A degree without appropriate industry experience is worth pretty much zilch.
You want to fly. Go fly. A masters won't help there.
You're better off getting some sort of appropriate industry experience. Something that shows initiative. You already have a degree. You don't need another one.
Least of all, you don't need to be spending your parents money. You're 24. Yes, you're young but old enough to get a job, any job, that earns an income.
Your flying life is not over. Not by a long shot. If you were 44, then I would say you have a problem.
If you're so worried about losing your medical, don't bother flying. The stress will do you in. BTW, stupid analogy.
If you have appropriate medical/loss of licence insurance, then retraining isn't too much of a cost burden.
When I was looking for work both here in the UK and in back in Australia, I took any job that would get me near an airport.
You want to fly. Go fly. A masters won't help there.
You're better off getting some sort of appropriate industry experience. Something that shows initiative. You already have a degree. You don't need another one.
Least of all, you don't need to be spending your parents money. You're 24. Yes, you're young but old enough to get a job, any job, that earns an income.
Your flying life is not over. Not by a long shot. If you were 44, then I would say you have a problem.
If you're so worried about losing your medical, don't bother flying. The stress will do you in. BTW, stupid analogy.
If you have appropriate medical/loss of licence insurance, then retraining isn't too much of a cost burden.
When I was looking for work both here in the UK and in back in Australia, I took any job that would get me near an airport.
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again, nobody is going to give you job unless you pay for it. but it s not a job anymore, as you pay to fly.
in this job you need 2 things: luck, and right time.
that's it! if you stay at home sending email when 10000 of pilots have sent already their CV, forget about it.
the thing is to take your sleepingbag, and go soemewhere where nobody want go.
just forget about jet job, wont happen before 2017.
have a nice life with your debts and you little pilot dream!
pilots are probably the most idiotic people I have seen in this world, "me me me!!!" "pleaaaase, give me a job", "i will work for free"... you screwed up your self cuz pilots are dumb!
in this job you need 2 things: luck, and right time.
that's it! if you stay at home sending email when 10000 of pilots have sent already their CV, forget about it.
the thing is to take your sleepingbag, and go soemewhere where nobody want go.
just forget about jet job, wont happen before 2017.
have a nice life with your debts and you little pilot dream!
pilots are probably the most idiotic people I have seen in this world, "me me me!!!" "pleaaaase, give me a job", "i will work for free"... you screwed up your self cuz pilots are dumb!
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Have been qualified almost 4 years now. Had bit of safety pilot work on a CJ2 but nothing came of it. Did cr@ppy temp jobs for a year or so, then decided I needed to get into the industry somehow, to stop myself going insane, and decided that working as cabin crew would be a logical step. Been flying as CC for over a year with a low-cost carrier, and you wouldn't believe how many fATPL's there are doing the same thing. Quite enjoy the job... pay isn't bad at all (commission can add a few grand a year to the salary), and get to work with aircraft and chat with pilots daily. Would recommend it.
I tend to lose the motivation to spend days and days sending off applications, but have decided that from now on, will spend 1 set evening a week applying for jobs. Gives me free time for other things the rest of the week, but also helps to motivate me to get at least a few good applications sent off each month. In the meantime, I still get to fly every day, just.... on the wrong side of the cockpit door
I tend to lose the motivation to spend days and days sending off applications, but have decided that from now on, will spend 1 set evening a week applying for jobs. Gives me free time for other things the rest of the week, but also helps to motivate me to get at least a few good applications sent off each month. In the meantime, I still get to fly every day, just.... on the wrong side of the cockpit door
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Well been qualified about 1.5 years now, already had an engineering degree before I started my training. As soon as I finished I sent out CV’s everyday for a couple of months, nothing came of it. Went out to Botswana looking for work, nothing came of it. Came back home applied for a few more months. Then went out to Algeria to teach ground school to pilots, nothing came of it. However believe this are improving and hopefully get better for us soon.
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I have 20 years of experience, and I can tell you this market is screwed.
do you know what people tell me now : "over qualified"
what a world of losers! I stoped to look for a job in aviation because I see it' s everywhere the same!i know 4-5 guys who are in the same situation and have thousand of hours, and don't find anything.
they do other things, like working on their house, making some non flying business, visiting countries,...dont fall in this trap, job will not come.do something else, and get rid of this stupid aviation bug if you want survive (any idiot can fly a plane, it s not a skill anymore).
do you know what people tell me now : "over qualified"
what a world of losers! I stoped to look for a job in aviation because I see it' s everywhere the same!i know 4-5 guys who are in the same situation and have thousand of hours, and don't find anything.
they do other things, like working on their house, making some non flying business, visiting countries,...dont fall in this trap, job will not come.do something else, and get rid of this stupid aviation bug if you want survive (any idiot can fly a plane, it s not a skill anymore).
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Hi,
It's hard isn't it ? I got made redundant in 2002, at the time I had 3000 hours.I went to work at Staples office store.A year after redundancy Igot back into a jet.
Truth is there will always be more CPL holders than jobs, because flying will probably always be seen as a desirable job. If I was starting now ( I wouldn't be able to afford it) I would make sure I have a 5-10year back up plan in another area of employment because I would consider that realistic.
It's hard isn't it ? I got made redundant in 2002, at the time I had 3000 hours.I went to work at Staples office store.A year after redundancy Igot back into a jet.
Truth is there will always be more CPL holders than jobs, because flying will probably always be seen as a desirable job. If I was starting now ( I wouldn't be able to afford it) I would make sure I have a 5-10year back up plan in another area of employment because I would consider that realistic.