Will I ever get a break?
There are jobs out there. Sitting on pprune all day moaning won't get you anywhere. Emailing cvs won't either. You've gotta get off your arse and go find it, as it won't come to you.
I'm just being honest. I've been there!
I'm just being honest. I've been there!
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Although flyvirgin says that he is not waiting for the job to come to him. He is saying that he is going out with a CV to try and get something.
Flyvirgin, the Aviator in me wishes you all the luck in the world because with an attitude like that you deserve to get something.
However, the Airline Pilot in me says that you will need more than luck because right now Airlines are mainly after people with money to spend rather than people who have the right attitude.
Flyvirgin, the Aviator in me wishes you all the luck in the world because with an attitude like that you deserve to get something.
However, the Airline Pilot in me says that you will need more than luck because right now Airlines are mainly after people with money to spend rather than people who have the right attitude.
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flyvirgin - Listen, I know it's tough not having a job. It took me pretty much bang on a year to get mine. Like everyone else, you have sent out many many CV's, email's etc etc. But this won't make you stand out from the crowd.
I ended up working on the ramp for 6 months in between CPL and IR, then after finishing training I worked as Cabin Crew for a summer, then went instructing for a further 6 months before finally landing my job.
My point is that I was able to show my interviewers that I set out to be a well rounded pilot with exerience of what it's like to be the one bringing the tea/coffee into the flight deck and putting up with the self loading freight, and also that I knew exactly what it was like to be the guy out on the ramp in the cold pissing rain chucking bags about and looking up at the flight deck thinking....."one day".
This isn't a holier than thou speech, but just that maybe getting some experience in other aspects of the industry may make yourself more attractive to companies and at the same time you get to network, make money and have a laugh.
Just my 2 penneth....
Good luck.
2W2R
I ended up working on the ramp for 6 months in between CPL and IR, then after finishing training I worked as Cabin Crew for a summer, then went instructing for a further 6 months before finally landing my job.
My point is that I was able to show my interviewers that I set out to be a well rounded pilot with exerience of what it's like to be the one bringing the tea/coffee into the flight deck and putting up with the self loading freight, and also that I knew exactly what it was like to be the guy out on the ramp in the cold pissing rain chucking bags about and looking up at the flight deck thinking....."one day".
This isn't a holier than thou speech, but just that maybe getting some experience in other aspects of the industry may make yourself more attractive to companies and at the same time you get to network, make money and have a laugh.
Just my 2 penneth....
Good luck.
2W2R
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hiya folks
dont wait for your ship to come in row out and meet it or throw enough sh1t sooner or later some will stick i think most of us have been there good luck to all
dont wait for your ship to come in row out and meet it or throw enough sh1t sooner or later some will stick i think most of us have been there good luck to all
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you need one thing to get a job: LUCK !
all guys I know who got a job, just got lucky: right place, right time.
I got jobs and I can tell you most of the time, it took me less than 5 minutes to get the job. No need to go to 5 days interview, testing,..., jobs are where they need pilots.
I discover than more they ask, less they need pilot.
still this industry is going nowhere.To spend 2-3 years looking for a job and to finish with a little job for 6 months, is not worth the money.
Especially when they still ask for 500h on type and 3 months recency .Each time you change plane or want fly something bigger, where do you get the job? pay for another 500h line training, and if nothing after 3 months, you are considered non current!!!.
After spending all this money, how do you get your money back? this is why I say there is no future for us because economically it became impossible to make a living in this profession..
Unless you have deep pocket, you may survive a few years with little jobs and have some fun circling in the sky , but sadly the majority of pilots will have to give up.
all guys I know who got a job, just got lucky: right place, right time.
I got jobs and I can tell you most of the time, it took me less than 5 minutes to get the job. No need to go to 5 days interview, testing,..., jobs are where they need pilots.
I discover than more they ask, less they need pilot.
still this industry is going nowhere.To spend 2-3 years looking for a job and to finish with a little job for 6 months, is not worth the money.
Especially when they still ask for 500h on type and 3 months recency .Each time you change plane or want fly something bigger, where do you get the job? pay for another 500h line training, and if nothing after 3 months, you are considered non current!!!.
After spending all this money, how do you get your money back? this is why I say there is no future for us because economically it became impossible to make a living in this profession..
Unless you have deep pocket, you may survive a few years with little jobs and have some fun circling in the sky , but sadly the majority of pilots will have to give up.
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Hey Guys ,
I have booked time off for the end of the month, to go on my “tour” of the UK, I plan on travelling up and down the country personally handing out my CV,
I hope to meet contacts and gain advice on achieving my goal of securing A flying job, I really don’t care what sort of flying job it is, from air taxi to air surveying, I will take anything,
Could anyone give me advice on how they would approach this trip, I plan to do a full circle of the UK, so for example if we pick the M3, (motorway) the airports around there are Fairoaks, Farnbourgh, Southampton and Bournmouth,
would you research the airports and see who operates from the airport then find information about the operators, chief pilots ETC, then try and catch them on the day for a chat,
What I’m worried about, is turning up at the operators reception, and not getting past the lady on the desk, that would be a wasted journey, How could I approach this?
Any info would be much appreciated, I apologise in advance for dragging this thread on I just want to get the most out of this Journey.
Kind Regards.
PS, I have the money ready for a Instructor rating, But if I start it now, I wont finish until September/October, by that time of year schools are starting to slow up, so I will have less chance of landing a instructing job, So I plan on starting the course next feb, that way I will be ready for spring/summer, more possibilities? Hopefully.
I have booked time off for the end of the month, to go on my “tour” of the UK, I plan on travelling up and down the country personally handing out my CV,
I hope to meet contacts and gain advice on achieving my goal of securing A flying job, I really don’t care what sort of flying job it is, from air taxi to air surveying, I will take anything,
Could anyone give me advice on how they would approach this trip, I plan to do a full circle of the UK, so for example if we pick the M3, (motorway) the airports around there are Fairoaks, Farnbourgh, Southampton and Bournmouth,
would you research the airports and see who operates from the airport then find information about the operators, chief pilots ETC, then try and catch them on the day for a chat,
What I’m worried about, is turning up at the operators reception, and not getting past the lady on the desk, that would be a wasted journey, How could I approach this?
Any info would be much appreciated, I apologise in advance for dragging this thread on I just want to get the most out of this Journey.
Kind Regards.
PS, I have the money ready for a Instructor rating, But if I start it now, I wont finish until September/October, by that time of year schools are starting to slow up, so I will have less chance of landing a instructing job, So I plan on starting the course next feb, that way I will be ready for spring/summer, more possibilities? Hopefully.
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I have read all of this thread and find it stunning that adult who holds a professional qualification cannot figure out how to approach someone or at least make a positive impression.
When I finished training I was on a plane to Africa after many phone calls that gave me the impression that there was a small chance if I turned up. I was training on a C206 within four weeks of my cpl flight test.
This is not to say that you just have to go to Africa it is more about your people skills over the phone and then face to face. I Have found so far that your qualifications are just that, bits of paper that mean legally you could fly but nothing else.
I guess I am lucky I am a confident person when it comes to meeting people and pretty good at reading body language and between the lines. One trick if you like I used is to speak to a chief pilot who would want guys with more hours than you have and explain very briefly that you are aware of this, however if he/she has five minutes could he outline the sort of pilot he wants in the future and does he know anyone who would consider you at this stage so you can get the experience to work for him later on.
Most CP's are tired of newbies asking for jobs when there is no chance, so sometimes this comes across as quite refreshing just asking for there advice. You can then once the ice is broken ask about ramp, office support roles and also ask if he would mind if you kept in contact with updated cv's etc.
Its hard for me to put into words but it is all about your people skills and reading the other person. I turned up in Australia as the market was crashing, I had about 1000hrs as did thousands of other pilots. I was told at the local airport that there was no chance of work anywhere as the market was on its knees. I had a part time air taxi job three weeks later, how, well I looked at the owners website, read his profile and made a few assumptions. At that time I did not have a multi IR so I sold that fact to him, I knew he would have had many pilots come and go with dreams of airliners in the future. So in my email I explained I did not have any interest in the airlines and infact enjoyed SEP VFR work so if he needed a pilot who did not just want to use the company as a stepping stone I was free, he called two days later.
So its time for you to set yourself apart from the others, it has worked for me and I'm now happy flying Cessna Caravan amphibian, probably the greatest flying job I will ever get.
May the force be with you and I hope I made some sense, you are a brand now go and sell it.
When I finished training I was on a plane to Africa after many phone calls that gave me the impression that there was a small chance if I turned up. I was training on a C206 within four weeks of my cpl flight test.
This is not to say that you just have to go to Africa it is more about your people skills over the phone and then face to face. I Have found so far that your qualifications are just that, bits of paper that mean legally you could fly but nothing else.
I guess I am lucky I am a confident person when it comes to meeting people and pretty good at reading body language and between the lines. One trick if you like I used is to speak to a chief pilot who would want guys with more hours than you have and explain very briefly that you are aware of this, however if he/she has five minutes could he outline the sort of pilot he wants in the future and does he know anyone who would consider you at this stage so you can get the experience to work for him later on.
Most CP's are tired of newbies asking for jobs when there is no chance, so sometimes this comes across as quite refreshing just asking for there advice. You can then once the ice is broken ask about ramp, office support roles and also ask if he would mind if you kept in contact with updated cv's etc.
Its hard for me to put into words but it is all about your people skills and reading the other person. I turned up in Australia as the market was crashing, I had about 1000hrs as did thousands of other pilots. I was told at the local airport that there was no chance of work anywhere as the market was on its knees. I had a part time air taxi job three weeks later, how, well I looked at the owners website, read his profile and made a few assumptions. At that time I did not have a multi IR so I sold that fact to him, I knew he would have had many pilots come and go with dreams of airliners in the future. So in my email I explained I did not have any interest in the airlines and infact enjoyed SEP VFR work so if he needed a pilot who did not just want to use the company as a stepping stone I was free, he called two days later.
So its time for you to set yourself apart from the others, it has worked for me and I'm now happy flying Cessna Caravan amphibian, probably the greatest flying job I will ever get.
May the force be with you and I hope I made some sense, you are a brand now go and sell it.
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Bit of advise when going to Farnborough make sure you are able to get a visitors pass otherwise you wont get past the front door 
Your best bet would be to research the airports and all the operators but not all operators will be so easy to find stuff about.
Out of interest where are you planning on doing the FI
Your best bet would be to research the airports and all the operators but not all operators will be so easy to find stuff about.
Out of interest where are you planning on doing the FI
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best way to see companies, is to rent a jet, land your plane(biger is better), and park right in front of their office, like this no security,...
and they will think:" this guy has lot of money, mmmh would you be interested by some line training with us?"
and they will think:" this guy has lot of money, mmmh would you be interested by some line training with us?"
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I'll likely get flamed, because no one likes the truth.
But the truth is the OP is very unlikely to get an airline job. Ever.
Lots of people will tell you that you should be an instructor, or bush fly in Africa, or fly float planes etc etc. But this is 2011. You can have 20,000 piston hours and no one will care. There is no airline job that asks for 1000 or indeed any amount of piston hours these days.
You can do all the crappy jobs. You can wash people's planes, fly their students, ferry their customers aircraft all for peanuts. They have businesses to run, they will happily let you do this. They will let you work on their ops desks, or sell their jeppesens, or hump their customer's luggage. But they can't help you get a job. You can waste years doing all that - its accountants, not contacts these days. And you will be told "Its how I got in, I fly jets!" But not after 2008 they didn't, without stumping up for a TR.
The market has changed. Ryan Air and EasyJet want you straight out of your FTO. They want you to buy a TR from them. They don't care if you spent 3 years flying round Tanzania in a Cessna Caravan.
Everyone else just wants ready trained pilots from companies that treat theirs badly like Ryan Air and EasyJet.
If the likes of BA and Virgin want pilots they'll take from low cost. Low cost will go back to those with bags of cash straight from the chosen FTOs. No one will be looking for someone who scraped 1500 hours of piston time. Biz jets, same story.
Finally, have a think about who you get advice from on this site. Statistically 4 out of 5 people, get a license and never secure a job. So who is on this site offering advice? The 4 out of 5 who had to go away and find other professions, or the lucky 20% that did get in? You rarely hear the other side here, because those people aren't pilots, so no longer come to pprune. And those still here 'the chosen ones', didn't want it more nor are they more talented, that I can promise you.
Ryan Air didn't take you. EasyJet will go to their huge pool. You aren't in it. Its over.
What do you do now? I have 1000 piston hours and I haven't figured that out myself.
You may think this isn't advice at all. It doesn't help. But thinking the unthinkable and preparing yourself for what will likely happen to you, will make it a lot less of a shock, when one morning you wake up and admit you p*ssed 80k away. A horrible post to read I know, but its a horrible reality. Sorry.
But the truth is the OP is very unlikely to get an airline job. Ever.
Lots of people will tell you that you should be an instructor, or bush fly in Africa, or fly float planes etc etc. But this is 2011. You can have 20,000 piston hours and no one will care. There is no airline job that asks for 1000 or indeed any amount of piston hours these days.
You can do all the crappy jobs. You can wash people's planes, fly their students, ferry their customers aircraft all for peanuts. They have businesses to run, they will happily let you do this. They will let you work on their ops desks, or sell their jeppesens, or hump their customer's luggage. But they can't help you get a job. You can waste years doing all that - its accountants, not contacts these days. And you will be told "Its how I got in, I fly jets!" But not after 2008 they didn't, without stumping up for a TR.
The market has changed. Ryan Air and EasyJet want you straight out of your FTO. They want you to buy a TR from them. They don't care if you spent 3 years flying round Tanzania in a Cessna Caravan.
Everyone else just wants ready trained pilots from companies that treat theirs badly like Ryan Air and EasyJet.
If the likes of BA and Virgin want pilots they'll take from low cost. Low cost will go back to those with bags of cash straight from the chosen FTOs. No one will be looking for someone who scraped 1500 hours of piston time. Biz jets, same story.
Finally, have a think about who you get advice from on this site. Statistically 4 out of 5 people, get a license and never secure a job. So who is on this site offering advice? The 4 out of 5 who had to go away and find other professions, or the lucky 20% that did get in? You rarely hear the other side here, because those people aren't pilots, so no longer come to pprune. And those still here 'the chosen ones', didn't want it more nor are they more talented, that I can promise you.
Ryan Air didn't take you. EasyJet will go to their huge pool. You aren't in it. Its over.
What do you do now? I have 1000 piston hours and I haven't figured that out myself.
You may think this isn't advice at all. It doesn't help. But thinking the unthinkable and preparing yourself for what will likely happen to you, will make it a lot less of a shock, when one morning you wake up and admit you p*ssed 80k away. A horrible post to read I know, but its a horrible reality. Sorry.
Last edited by SpreadEagle; 9th Jul 2011 at 02:52.
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Its only accurate for Europe and nothing is keeping you there, I am from the UK and have not one commercial hour there. For the African continent, Australia, NZ and many other countries hours do count.
For an airline down under they generally have a min of 1500-2000hrs and 500hrs twin. You may have to pay for a TR but they will not entertain you otherwise. Sitting in the UK getting depressed is a choice, the industry is huge covering the globe. And no it is not easy to find work but that generally filters the weak from the strong.
Before you all say I can't get visa's etc, I did not have the right to live anywhere but Europe when I started out a few years ago but I made it happen.
On the other side for me anyway I have professional pride, I want to be a well rounded aviator not just some Muppet with 200hrs and TR. And all of that GA work builds your awareness and airman ship and means you gain some respect from other pilots you work with in the future. And if nothing else have some great tales to tell in the pub.
Those that give up make more room for those that don't, enjoy flight sim boys!
For an airline down under they generally have a min of 1500-2000hrs and 500hrs twin. You may have to pay for a TR but they will not entertain you otherwise. Sitting in the UK getting depressed is a choice, the industry is huge covering the globe. And no it is not easy to find work but that generally filters the weak from the strong.
Before you all say I can't get visa's etc, I did not have the right to live anywhere but Europe when I started out a few years ago but I made it happen.
On the other side for me anyway I have professional pride, I want to be a well rounded aviator not just some Muppet with 200hrs and TR. And all of that GA work builds your awareness and airman ship and means you gain some respect from other pilots you work with in the future. And if nothing else have some great tales to tell in the pub.
Those that give up make more room for those that don't, enjoy flight sim boys!
Last edited by Wildpilot; 9th Jul 2011 at 04:56.
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It's crisis(crisis=madness), nobody will give you a job as long pilots pay to work.
why should they?
30 years ago, you could get a job with a PP, later a CPL, then a ATP frozen, 10 years ago a MCC, 5 years ago a T/R, 2 years ago 500h online, now you need thousand hours of line training, several type rating, and each airline want you buy their line training.
where do you see yourself in 5 years?(typical HR question)
giving more dosh to these jackass???
then be 40 or 50, still competing with punks of 22-25 spending all daddy'saving in line training. In 5 years, you will have to pay 300'000 euro, for Captain line training without any guaranty they emloy you.
Get real! this market is OVER! you will still have a moron who will destroy a paid job of somebody else because flying a plane is fun, it 's a hobby, so why should they pay you if you have a good time to fly their planes!!!.
Instead make a job that nobody want do, toilet cleaner, body guard in Irak,dentist, or any hit a lick' job! work and save for 20 years, 30 if you have to , make lot of dosh, then pay for line training and spend all your money in a 0 to hero pilot training, and maybe they will let you fly for 500h their orange shiny jet before they kick you out for the next punk !.
LINE TRAINING, P2F, CPL, MCC = THE BIGGEST SCAM IN THE WORLD...ask the CAA. they have even scamed you, these f...
ds!!
why should they?
30 years ago, you could get a job with a PP, later a CPL, then a ATP frozen, 10 years ago a MCC, 5 years ago a T/R, 2 years ago 500h online, now you need thousand hours of line training, several type rating, and each airline want you buy their line training.
where do you see yourself in 5 years?(typical HR question)
giving more dosh to these jackass???
then be 40 or 50, still competing with punks of 22-25 spending all daddy'saving in line training. In 5 years, you will have to pay 300'000 euro, for Captain line training without any guaranty they emloy you.Get real! this market is OVER! you will still have a moron who will destroy a paid job of somebody else because flying a plane is fun, it 's a hobby, so why should they pay you if you have a good time to fly their planes!!!.
Instead make a job that nobody want do, toilet cleaner, body guard in Irak,dentist, or any hit a lick' job! work and save for 20 years, 30 if you have to , make lot of dosh, then pay for line training and spend all your money in a 0 to hero pilot training, and maybe they will let you fly for 500h their orange shiny jet before they kick you out for the next punk !.
LINE TRAINING, P2F, CPL, MCC = THE BIGGEST SCAM IN THE WORLD...ask the CAA. they have even scamed you, these f...
ds!!
Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 9th Jul 2011 at 17:32.
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SpreadEagle's concert analogy.
Imagine pprune to be a website for concert lovers. In the other fora there are happy fans who went to see Britney Spears last night, or maybe they are complaining that n-sync weren't quite as good as they had hoped.
But you are now in the wannabe section of pprune. This is the "We bought our tickets on the internet off a thieving pikey" forum.
You are wondering why, when you have paid for your tickets, that they did not come through your letter box? You spent lots of time filling in all your bank details and it cost lots of money. But still no tickets.
Some will tell you if you go to these concerts and set out the chairs for a few years, one day they will let you see a concert for free. It happened to a guy named Bob back in 2005. It could happen to you. In fact here is Bob. He totally enjoyed the Foo Fighters. That's what he recommends.
Some people will tell you if you go back to the pikey site and now order a backstage pass for £27,000, your tickets and the backstage pass will arrive together very soon. That has to be worth investigating.
And some people will tell you if you want those tickets bad enough, the gypsies will eventually send them to you. You just have to really want them.
Now swap dishonest pikey for FTO (not a huge leap of imagination), and concert ticket for airline job.
When do you think your tickets will arrive?
Imagine pprune to be a website for concert lovers. In the other fora there are happy fans who went to see Britney Spears last night, or maybe they are complaining that n-sync weren't quite as good as they had hoped.
But you are now in the wannabe section of pprune. This is the "We bought our tickets on the internet off a thieving pikey" forum.
You are wondering why, when you have paid for your tickets, that they did not come through your letter box? You spent lots of time filling in all your bank details and it cost lots of money. But still no tickets.
Some will tell you if you go to these concerts and set out the chairs for a few years, one day they will let you see a concert for free. It happened to a guy named Bob back in 2005. It could happen to you. In fact here is Bob. He totally enjoyed the Foo Fighters. That's what he recommends.
Some people will tell you if you go back to the pikey site and now order a backstage pass for £27,000, your tickets and the backstage pass will arrive together very soon. That has to be worth investigating.
And some people will tell you if you want those tickets bad enough, the gypsies will eventually send them to you. You just have to really want them.
Now swap dishonest pikey for FTO (not a huge leap of imagination), and concert ticket for airline job.
When do you think your tickets will arrive?
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SpreadEagle, shut up! Stop saying bullsh*t! It's not true. Contractor pilot jobs in Africa may help low-hour pilots; I know several pilots flying Airbus (one in easyJet) and Boeing and biz jets after have flown in Africa for a while.
Nowadays, at the start of our careers we low hour pilots have to be very flexible and willing to fly anywhere and anything!
Africa, Middle East, Asia, Oceania (not Oz and NZ), Maldives!
Make a bit of experience and then give a look at Air Mekong and cariers like it.
I will pay for a TR only if there's a serious job offer, but straight after my flight training I will go in Belize to build up some hours on the Caravan and then give fly in Africa.
Nowadays, at the start of our careers we low hour pilots have to be very flexible and willing to fly anywhere and anything!
Africa, Middle East, Asia, Oceania (not Oz and NZ), Maldives!
Make a bit of experience and then give a look at Air Mekong and cariers like it.
I will pay for a TR only if there's a serious job offer, but straight after my flight training I will go in Belize to build up some hours on the Caravan and then give fly in Africa.