Easyjet New Ab-initio scheme :)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Only an ocean away
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Callum, your posts remind me so much of me eight years ago. I was in a very similar position and initially I chose the integrated route at one of the big FTOs. Admittedly I wasn't on a course that was attached to any individual airline, but about three months in I switched to modular and I never looked back.
You seem to be a very switched on young man, you know what you want and I applaud you for that. I was the same as you, I decided that university wasn't for me, and I still stand by that decision. Only you can make that choice, and it sounds as though flying has been your ambition since you were very young and it's all you want to do. If that is the case, then I would say go for it. Don't do the uni thing. However, I would very seriously look at going down the modular route. So much can change in the 18 months while you're on the course. In your case you are looking at the possibility of not finishing training until 2014 if you start in July next year. I promise you that so much will change in this industry in the three years until you finish. I'm sure the training contract will be written in such as way that it is heavily weighed in easyJets favour. Growth is slowing dramatically at easyJet now, and their crewing needs will change dramatically in the next three years. That's not to say that they won't make good on their promise of a job, but what if they don't? You'll be stuck with a disproportionate amount of debt and no job.
Let me put another option to you. From what you have stated on here, you have saved around £40,000 for your training? That is excellent! You are already in a brilliant position, much more advantageous than most others who are thinking of training. Kudos to you for having the commitment and foresight to save so diligently. It shows a great deal of integrity that backs your stated desire to be a pilot above anything else. That £40,000 could get you the same little blue book that many guys pay well over £100,000 for. It might not cover the whole thing, but even to go to the very best schools you'd probably only be looking at paying an extra £10,000. You could even still study with OAA.
Let me break it down for you.
PPL - £6,000
ATPL Written Exams - £3,000
Hours building - £8,000 (either in the USA or there are many very affordable options now available in the UK)
Commercial - £5,000
Multi engine rating - £3,000
Instrument rating - £14,000
MCC - £3,000
Fees, exam payments etc - £3,000
Total cost - £45,000
I've been very generous with the costs above, you could in fact do it all for quite a bit less. When I trained I spent about £38,000 in total.
Now, I know the biggest factor in all of this is the job at the end. But having spent £45,000, you will have little to no debt. With the level of maturity and intelligence you are displaying on here, I don't think you'd have a big problem getting a job flying something, somewhere. It might not be a shiny jet straight away, but what so many people miss out on is the real fun of the journey getting to that jet. Even if a big jet is all you really want, then there is still Ryanair, which, while there being no guarantee you will get an interview, is a very real option. If you end up having to self fund a type rating somewhere you will probably be looking at an other £30,000 in addition to the £45,000 you've already spent, giving you a total of £75,000 for the whole thing.
I have never regretted my decision to quit integrated and go modular. I networked a hell of a lot and 2 days after finishing my MCC, I started with a turboprop operator in the right hand seat. The market changed, I got made redundant six months later and ended up moving overseas and flying the same aircraft type for another airline. Just yesterday I got the phone call from one of the world's major airlines offering me a job in the right hand seat of a jet starting on June 6th. It's been on hell of a journey so far, it really has had a lot of ups and downs, sometimes it's been hell, but I would do it all again.
I hope you'll give what I've said some thought. You really do remind me a lot of myself when I was 17. I still love what I'm doing because I've still got that passion to fly. Don't let people get you down, but do make the right choices. They may not always be the most straight forward or easiest routes to choose, but good decisions always end up paying off.
Good luck and if you need any more help or advice, please feel free to drop me a PM. I owe this industry a lot, and I'd like to give something back.
You seem to be a very switched on young man, you know what you want and I applaud you for that. I was the same as you, I decided that university wasn't for me, and I still stand by that decision. Only you can make that choice, and it sounds as though flying has been your ambition since you were very young and it's all you want to do. If that is the case, then I would say go for it. Don't do the uni thing. However, I would very seriously look at going down the modular route. So much can change in the 18 months while you're on the course. In your case you are looking at the possibility of not finishing training until 2014 if you start in July next year. I promise you that so much will change in this industry in the three years until you finish. I'm sure the training contract will be written in such as way that it is heavily weighed in easyJets favour. Growth is slowing dramatically at easyJet now, and their crewing needs will change dramatically in the next three years. That's not to say that they won't make good on their promise of a job, but what if they don't? You'll be stuck with a disproportionate amount of debt and no job.
Let me put another option to you. From what you have stated on here, you have saved around £40,000 for your training? That is excellent! You are already in a brilliant position, much more advantageous than most others who are thinking of training. Kudos to you for having the commitment and foresight to save so diligently. It shows a great deal of integrity that backs your stated desire to be a pilot above anything else. That £40,000 could get you the same little blue book that many guys pay well over £100,000 for. It might not cover the whole thing, but even to go to the very best schools you'd probably only be looking at paying an extra £10,000. You could even still study with OAA.
Let me break it down for you.
PPL - £6,000
ATPL Written Exams - £3,000
Hours building - £8,000 (either in the USA or there are many very affordable options now available in the UK)
Commercial - £5,000
Multi engine rating - £3,000
Instrument rating - £14,000
MCC - £3,000
Fees, exam payments etc - £3,000
Total cost - £45,000
I've been very generous with the costs above, you could in fact do it all for quite a bit less. When I trained I spent about £38,000 in total.
Now, I know the biggest factor in all of this is the job at the end. But having spent £45,000, you will have little to no debt. With the level of maturity and intelligence you are displaying on here, I don't think you'd have a big problem getting a job flying something, somewhere. It might not be a shiny jet straight away, but what so many people miss out on is the real fun of the journey getting to that jet. Even if a big jet is all you really want, then there is still Ryanair, which, while there being no guarantee you will get an interview, is a very real option. If you end up having to self fund a type rating somewhere you will probably be looking at an other £30,000 in addition to the £45,000 you've already spent, giving you a total of £75,000 for the whole thing.
I have never regretted my decision to quit integrated and go modular. I networked a hell of a lot and 2 days after finishing my MCC, I started with a turboprop operator in the right hand seat. The market changed, I got made redundant six months later and ended up moving overseas and flying the same aircraft type for another airline. Just yesterday I got the phone call from one of the world's major airlines offering me a job in the right hand seat of a jet starting on June 6th. It's been on hell of a journey so far, it really has had a lot of ups and downs, sometimes it's been hell, but I would do it all again.
I hope you'll give what I've said some thought. You really do remind me a lot of myself when I was 17. I still love what I'm doing because I've still got that passion to fly. Don't let people get you down, but do make the right choices. They may not always be the most straight forward or easiest routes to choose, but good decisions always end up paying off.
Good luck and if you need any more help or advice, please feel free to drop me a PM. I owe this industry a lot, and I'd like to give something back.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colchester
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Bangout your post says "I think I can say pretty firmly that no RAF de-selectees have snapped up this 'offer'. Cathay is the best deal on the table for us right now" and in my assessment phase there were at least 5, that's just in one day out of 10. Regardless of how many went to the normal assessment, you can't "pretty firmly" say that "no RAF de-selectees" attended because some did.
@Charliefly, nothing yet.
@Charliefly, nothing yet.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so here's where I stand.
Ok so here are my main issues with the scheme :
1. At no point is there any mention of a guaranteed job
2. It's £85,000 + Oaa accomodation at around £20,000
3. It's not an atpl until you get your command
4. It's a secured loan on a property unless you have £105k lying around
5. The whole training is based on Easyjet sops which makes it invalid elsewhere.
6. Easyjet has just reported first quarter losses of over £100m
7. Easyjets up to now massive growth rate is slowing
8. Because you can only go to Easyjet they can choose to pay you next to nothing like ctc, and let's face it why wouldn't they!
9. With no guarantee of a job you could essentially end up with no valid license. Not even a ppl!
10. You will have zero choice on where you will work, say good bye to your family's because Madrid and Paris are always short on crew.
11. Your receive an Easyjet a320 type rating again based on their seps so is it really going to be valid? Even if your license is?
12. It isn't yet Caa approved, although they guarantee to put you through an atpl if they don't accredit it that means how many more years until your online??
13. If Easyjet really wanted the best quality guys and had guaranteed jobs they would offer full sponsorship with repayments out of salary and a legally binding agreement for 10 years employment, it feels to me like they are worried that there may not be jobs so are making it risk free for themselves, and very high risk for potential candidates
14. Who's to say that when you complete that they won't choose a ctc guy over you, after-all they have a full atpl and type rating too, so essentially better qualified and are probably going to be accepting a lower pay to get the job.
People need to remember that this is a highly successful business, and they know that any press is good press, so even if this thing fails there getting publicity out of it, and the cadets are the ones taking the financial fall with potentially devastating effects.
This might be the right course for 17 year old guy or girl, who has no ties like a spouse or children, who's parents don't need to secure a loan and can give them 100k freely with no worries.
But to me that's the way the industry used to be people with money over ability. I'm not that person, I'm 21 I have a partner that I live with and the money would have to be secured on mum and dads house... But to be honest it's more than unfair for me to ask them to put their life's work on the line for a license that may not even get me a job.
1. At no point is there any mention of a guaranteed job
2. It's £85,000 + Oaa accomodation at around £20,000
3. It's not an atpl until you get your command
4. It's a secured loan on a property unless you have £105k lying around
5. The whole training is based on Easyjet sops which makes it invalid elsewhere.
6. Easyjet has just reported first quarter losses of over £100m
7. Easyjets up to now massive growth rate is slowing
8. Because you can only go to Easyjet they can choose to pay you next to nothing like ctc, and let's face it why wouldn't they!
9. With no guarantee of a job you could essentially end up with no valid license. Not even a ppl!
10. You will have zero choice on where you will work, say good bye to your family's because Madrid and Paris are always short on crew.
11. Your receive an Easyjet a320 type rating again based on their seps so is it really going to be valid? Even if your license is?
12. It isn't yet Caa approved, although they guarantee to put you through an atpl if they don't accredit it that means how many more years until your online??
13. If Easyjet really wanted the best quality guys and had guaranteed jobs they would offer full sponsorship with repayments out of salary and a legally binding agreement for 10 years employment, it feels to me like they are worried that there may not be jobs so are making it risk free for themselves, and very high risk for potential candidates
14. Who's to say that when you complete that they won't choose a ctc guy over you, after-all they have a full atpl and type rating too, so essentially better qualified and are probably going to be accepting a lower pay to get the job.
People need to remember that this is a highly successful business, and they know that any press is good press, so even if this thing fails there getting publicity out of it, and the cadets are the ones taking the financial fall with potentially devastating effects.
This might be the right course for 17 year old guy or girl, who has no ties like a spouse or children, who's parents don't need to secure a loan and can give them 100k freely with no worries.
But to me that's the way the industry used to be people with money over ability. I'm not that person, I'm 21 I have a partner that I live with and the money would have to be secured on mum and dads house... But to be honest it's more than unfair for me to ask them to put their life's work on the line for a license that may not even get me a job.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
look, if easyjet were looking for pilots, they would hire the thousand of pilots who have no job since the last 1-2 years and who are fully qualified with XXXX hours on the 320-319.
why do you think they want guys with 0 experience and bother with this MPL ? answer: they want your MONEY!
They know it' s going to be complicated, but they want the money that Oxford is giving to them.
I call this corruption!
in 1-2 years you will understand
and we will have a big laugh when you will be in the street with no license, no house, no money,...and no job!
why guys want absolutely get a job in a jet at 20yo. go see the world, go learn to fly real planes with standard controll/rudder. go get a feeling of grass runways, mountains vortex, and adventure. Bush, seaplane,...
forget about these easyjet schemes, it s not working and it will make you miserable in the long term.
why do you think they want guys with 0 experience and bother with this MPL ? answer: they want your MONEY!
They know it' s going to be complicated, but they want the money that Oxford is giving to them.
I call this corruption!
in 1-2 years you will understand
and we will have a big laugh when you will be in the street with no license, no house, no money,...and no job!why guys want absolutely get a job in a jet at 20yo. go see the world, go learn to fly real planes with standard controll/rudder. go get a feeling of grass runways, mountains vortex, and adventure. Bush, seaplane,...
forget about these easyjet schemes, it s not working and it will make you miserable in the long term.
Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 29th May 2011 at 08:32.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the OFCR......and probably somewhere over China zzzzzzzz
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a gamble, but the odds are better elsewhere. and besides, you don't really fly an A320 now do you?
Easyjet believe that everything should come to them risk and cost neutral. Lets face it, they may as well be Ryanair Uk ltd. 5 contractual earlies in a row?? Its a good thing the Airbus does a lot of the work for you. I'm shattered after 3, and thats before going onto lates!
The MPL IS a good start for an ab-initio looking for a right hand seat in minimum time, but this set up is only going to tarnish its reputation. OAA and EASY are simply looking to cash in. If there was a firm job in terms of being full-time, not a contractor(!!), then I would look closly at the finance side. There would also have to be a commitment from EASY to convert you back to a CPL/IR MCC (fATPL) should problems arise, and it becomes clear there is no job for you, for what ever reason. A certain other UK operator does this, why not easy? Simples, lets make money out of the suckers, and hey, perhaps they get a job for a while. And if the sky turns grey, as a Parc(OAA) student, they can 'offer' you a 'great rate' on converting you back to a CPL/IR. Yet more money! Damn it why dont i set up my own FTO and get in on this money maker!
Bean counters for you.
My strongest advice for those applying is to hold on! Better things could well be just around the corner, as in JUST around the corner!
And if you are a de-selectee from the RAF, you are being paid until the 1st sept 2012 in any case! Hold your fire!
Easyjet believe that everything should come to them risk and cost neutral. Lets face it, they may as well be Ryanair Uk ltd. 5 contractual earlies in a row?? Its a good thing the Airbus does a lot of the work for you. I'm shattered after 3, and thats before going onto lates!
The MPL IS a good start for an ab-initio looking for a right hand seat in minimum time, but this set up is only going to tarnish its reputation. OAA and EASY are simply looking to cash in. If there was a firm job in terms of being full-time, not a contractor(!!), then I would look closly at the finance side. There would also have to be a commitment from EASY to convert you back to a CPL/IR MCC (fATPL) should problems arise, and it becomes clear there is no job for you, for what ever reason. A certain other UK operator does this, why not easy? Simples, lets make money out of the suckers, and hey, perhaps they get a job for a while. And if the sky turns grey, as a Parc(OAA) student, they can 'offer' you a 'great rate' on converting you back to a CPL/IR. Yet more money! Damn it why dont i set up my own FTO and get in on this money maker!
Bean counters for you.
My strongest advice for those applying is to hold on! Better things could well be just around the corner, as in JUST around the corner!
And if you are a de-selectee from the RAF, you are being paid until the 1st sept 2012 in any case! Hold your fire!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Where its at
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I know about this MPL programme is from this thread, so I may not be totally clear on the minutiae of the details.
However, if you are genuinely considering this scheme - with the emphasis on the word scheme - I think you might also want to consider some form of lobotomy whilst you're at it.
This is not just the equivalent of paying above the going rate for driving lessons to be rewarded with a licence that lets you drive just an automatic - but one specific automatic owned by a bastard.
You're going to have less employment options than an illegal who has just been trafficked into Europe in the hold of a fishing boat. You're going to be able to work for one employer only. Does that sound like a recipe for decent employment? You'll be indentured servants - to save you googling that, the airline is going to be the pimp, no prizes for guessing what you're going to be.
Picture round:
You're a teenager, you're going to borrow 100 grand. You're not Mark Zukerberg, you're borrowing this so you can earn a qualification that will let you work for one single employer in the whole wide world - and that employer is not even a premier league football club.
Your parents saw it at 17%, you've seen it at half a percent - so let's disregard these extremes. Apart from about 6 minutes in 2001, the base rate has been above 4% for all of your brief lives. At 4-5% you'll be paying 6-7%. You will need to cough up several grand a year to hold the amount steady. Remember, don't skimp on your repayments, at 7% that puppy is going to double in size every ten years. By how much are you going to be able to actually take it down each year? Try again, on the peanuts they'll pay you, you ain't. You're going to have to live with it, like a facial tattoo. Actually, your folks are going to hve to live with that tat because they're on the hook too. No pressure then.
You can't fight these graphs, ask the Greeks.
However, if you are genuinely considering this scheme - with the emphasis on the word scheme - I think you might also want to consider some form of lobotomy whilst you're at it.
This is not just the equivalent of paying above the going rate for driving lessons to be rewarded with a licence that lets you drive just an automatic - but one specific automatic owned by a bastard.
You're going to have less employment options than an illegal who has just been trafficked into Europe in the hold of a fishing boat. You're going to be able to work for one employer only. Does that sound like a recipe for decent employment? You'll be indentured servants - to save you googling that, the airline is going to be the pimp, no prizes for guessing what you're going to be.
Picture round:
You're a teenager, you're going to borrow 100 grand. You're not Mark Zukerberg, you're borrowing this so you can earn a qualification that will let you work for one single employer in the whole wide world - and that employer is not even a premier league football club.
Your parents saw it at 17%, you've seen it at half a percent - so let's disregard these extremes. Apart from about 6 minutes in 2001, the base rate has been above 4% for all of your brief lives. At 4-5% you'll be paying 6-7%. You will need to cough up several grand a year to hold the amount steady. Remember, don't skimp on your repayments, at 7% that puppy is going to double in size every ten years. By how much are you going to be able to actually take it down each year? Try again, on the peanuts they'll pay you, you ain't. You're going to have to live with it, like a facial tattoo. Actually, your folks are going to hve to live with that tat because they're on the hook too. No pressure then.
You can't fight these graphs, ask the Greeks.
Hmmm, Yes and also, No.
You will - most likely - be in a profitable airline in relatively good financial strength. Moreover promotion is still reasonably quick and will remain so for some time after the fleet growth stops. This is not some amalgamated Charter outfit with 18 years to command nor is it a legacy carrier with pension liabilities the size of Jupiter.
After three years you will be on £50,000 a year.
WWW
You will - most likely - be in a profitable airline in relatively good financial strength. Moreover promotion is still reasonably quick and will remain so for some time after the fleet growth stops. This is not some amalgamated Charter outfit with 18 years to command nor is it a legacy carrier with pension liabilities the size of Jupiter.
After three years you will be on £50,000 a year.
WWW
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Where its at
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not questioning the solvency of the airline but rather the wisdom of backing ones self into corner at such expense. Normally when you purchase something more limited - a black & white TV licence, an iPad without 3g, a train ticket that gets you into London after 11am - it comes out cheaper. Not so, in this case.
Cost aside, the debt aside, the alternative employment limitations aside; you are also presumably dragging others into this wager? I assume you're not getting 100 large unsecured off a bank, so you have to get others to stand the collateral. If you lose your job (medicals, you
it up at work, oil price rises and airlines tank), you won't.. sorry, can't, get another - does the debt get written off in this case? No, but your parents can wave goodbye to retirement unless they fancy sleeping in a park bench.
In three years you'll be on £50k. Ok, sure. Nobody's going to move the goalposts on you are they? They said they wouldn't, right? We've never seen that happen at Easy have we, WWW?
In 3 years you will not want to be there any longer. In 3 years, Easyjet will have gotten an almighty taste for self-subsidised labour and what exactly can you offer them at 50 grand that someone else three years down the line can offer them for a fraction of the price? Obviously Easyjet have a huge incentive to keep you sweet and keep you there on 50 grand a year when they've got urchins banging on the door to sell their kidneys for a FO seat (yep, there's a dispensation for that, just like there's a roster dispensation for you guys).
Cost aside, the debt aside, the alternative employment limitations aside; you are also presumably dragging others into this wager? I assume you're not getting 100 large unsecured off a bank, so you have to get others to stand the collateral. If you lose your job (medicals, you
it up at work, oil price rises and airlines tank), you won't.. sorry, can't, get another - does the debt get written off in this case? No, but your parents can wave goodbye to retirement unless they fancy sleeping in a park bench.In three years you'll be on £50k. Ok, sure. Nobody's going to move the goalposts on you are they? They said they wouldn't, right? We've never seen that happen at Easy have we, WWW?
In 3 years you will not want to be there any longer. In 3 years, Easyjet will have gotten an almighty taste for self-subsidised labour and what exactly can you offer them at 50 grand that someone else three years down the line can offer them for a fraction of the price? Obviously Easyjet have a huge incentive to keep you sweet and keep you there on 50 grand a year when they've got urchins banging on the door to sell their kidneys for a FO seat (yep, there's a dispensation for that, just like there's a roster dispensation for you guys).
I yield to no man in my urging of caution upon wannabes in respect to training routes and debt. Many have castigated me in the past for being the Dr Doom of these forums.
But. We have to deal with the world as it is, not as it was nor how it ought to be. Between them FlyBe and Easy represent nearly all the available UK airline job hiring and both airlines are now MPL only. Yes the terms are poor and the risk is placed almost entirely on the wannabe not the airline.
However, when I undertook my ATPL exams in the late 1990's and paid for my own IR and my own CPL and my own FIC I was taking an expensive risk entirely on my shoulders. In my first year I earned £8,000 net. In my second year I earned £18,000 net. I got lucky in my third year and got into a UK airline flying a B737 where the salary was £33,000 gross. I moved three times to three countries to climb each rung. I was lucky. I got breaks. I was never unemployed.
Typical training costs at the time were £61,000 for the CAP509 course at Prestwick. Interest rates on loans were around 7% and you could buy a freehold house for £60k.
So.
£105,000 now is not that different. Your 200th hour TT will be sat in the RHS of a factory fresh A320. You will be on £50k pa in three years time. There will be a reasonable chance of promotion within 7 or 8 years. Your employer is unlikely to go bust.
It certainly ain't no fully funded BA Cadetship. But neither is it quite the gamble and graft many people undertook at the start of their career either.
If you don't like it do your own thing, pay less money and climb the ladder the old fashioned way. You'll be doing very well to be taking home £4,500 a month net like dozens of easyJet FO's I know who are based in such hell holes as Paris and Rome..
Bit of perspective.
If finding £100k is no great problem for you and your family - and for a lot of people it seems it isn't - then you'd be mad not apply.
In a world where a crap degree from a crap university will cost you £35k and where private school fees are £10k a year for 13 years and where Grannies 3-bed-semi is worth half a million - hell maybe £105,000 is cheap. Crazy world.
WWW
But. We have to deal with the world as it is, not as it was nor how it ought to be. Between them FlyBe and Easy represent nearly all the available UK airline job hiring and both airlines are now MPL only. Yes the terms are poor and the risk is placed almost entirely on the wannabe not the airline.
However, when I undertook my ATPL exams in the late 1990's and paid for my own IR and my own CPL and my own FIC I was taking an expensive risk entirely on my shoulders. In my first year I earned £8,000 net. In my second year I earned £18,000 net. I got lucky in my third year and got into a UK airline flying a B737 where the salary was £33,000 gross. I moved three times to three countries to climb each rung. I was lucky. I got breaks. I was never unemployed.
Typical training costs at the time were £61,000 for the CAP509 course at Prestwick. Interest rates on loans were around 7% and you could buy a freehold house for £60k.
So.
£105,000 now is not that different. Your 200th hour TT will be sat in the RHS of a factory fresh A320. You will be on £50k pa in three years time. There will be a reasonable chance of promotion within 7 or 8 years. Your employer is unlikely to go bust.
It certainly ain't no fully funded BA Cadetship. But neither is it quite the gamble and graft many people undertook at the start of their career either.
If you don't like it do your own thing, pay less money and climb the ladder the old fashioned way. You'll be doing very well to be taking home £4,500 a month net like dozens of easyJet FO's I know who are based in such hell holes as Paris and Rome..
Bit of perspective.
If finding £100k is no great problem for you and your family - and for a lot of people it seems it isn't - then you'd be mad not apply.
In a world where a crap degree from a crap university will cost you £35k and where private school fees are £10k a year for 13 years and where Grannies 3-bed-semi is worth half a million - hell maybe £105,000 is cheap. Crazy world.
WWW
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the OFCR......and probably somewhere over China zzzzzzzz
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WWW, i would agree should the scheme place you as a fully fledged FO in EZY. But that simply is not the case. You are a contractor owned by parc(OAA) on loan to Easy. Should EZY offer you a full time contract in 3 years, great. But if not what next? With any luck you will be on £50,000 a year in 3 years time, with 1500 hours, an LST and a full ATPL. There never have been guarantees in life, sure. But over 100 grand to be a contactor holding an MPL? At Flybe you are fully 'owned' by Flybe, on a 5 year bond due to the training loan. Thats 5 years the company are gonna hang on to you so as not to loose their inverstment. Ok if the poop hit the fan and redundancies occur, you still are in the chopping line, but at least you are on the seniority list and getting the 'perks' of full time employment, pension, LOL, staff travel, medicals etc etc. It is far easier to scrap contractors then full time staff. Flybe should know, they have used plenty of them in the past on the 145 and 146 fleets.
As always, you pays your money..............you takes your choice
As always, you pays your money..............you takes your choice
The Wannabe zombie army queue stretches around the corner. Each with >100k to spunk up the wall. Without blinking.
Once you comprehend that fact then everything else falls instantly into place.
In charge here for decades - this is the single most important thing I have learned.
WWW :-(
Once you comprehend that fact then everything else falls instantly into place.
In charge here for decades - this is the single most important thing I have learned.
WWW :-(
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ABZ
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Wannabe zombie army queue stretches around the corner. Each with >100k to spunk up the wall. Without blinking.
Once you comprehend that fact then everything else falls instantly into place.
In charge here for decades - this is the single most important thing I have learned.
Once you comprehend that fact then everything else falls instantly into place.
In charge here for decades - this is the single most important thing I have learned.
WWW, i would agree should the scheme place you as a fully fledged FO in EZY. But that simply is not the case. You are a contractor owned by parc(OAA) on loan to Easy. Should EZY offer you a full time contract in 3 years, great. But if not what next? With any luck you will be on £50,000 a year in 3 years time, with 1500 hours, an LST and a full ATPL. There never have been guarantees in life, sure. But over 100 grand to be a contactor holding an MPL?
The financial arms race that currently defines Wannabeism is, entirely, self-inflicted. Directing your anger at the airlines is foolish.
They rapaciously negotiate down the costs of every part of their business. That is what they do. That junior First Officers are willing to self-fund ever more of their training is really not the airlines fault..
I hate it. But hey.
WWW
Bno2fly,
I am categorically not standing up for this scheme. However, some of your points appear to be a bit wide of the mark.
3. It's not an atpl until you get your command - no different from a 'traditional' integrated course then
5. The whole training is based on Easyjet sops which makes it invalid elsewhere - no, it doesn't. It merely limits you to the aircraft type
6. Easyjet has just reported first quarter losses of over £100m - actually it's nearly double that, but was predicted. Wait for the second quarter report
7. Easyjets up to now massive growth rate is slowing - the relevance being ?
9. With no guarantee of a job you could essentially end up with no valid license. Not even a ppl! - not according to OAA. The press release on OAA's website states: "Additionally and specifically for MPL students, OAA is also offering the further guarantee of a fully-funded OAA ‘Safety Net’ reversion to an APPFO Integrated ATPL training course in the very unlikely event that the MPL programme ceases for any reason."
10. You will have zero choice on where you will work, say good bye to your family's because Madrid and Paris are always short on crew. - nothing MPL-specific about that.
11. Your receive an Easyjet a320 type rating again based on their seps so is it really going to be valid? Even if your license is? - ??
12. It isn't yet Caa approved, although they guarantee to put through an atpl if they don't accredit it that means how many more years until your online?? - What are the chances of the CAA rejecting the course: 1,000-1 ?
13. If Easyjet really wanted the best quality guys and had guaranteed jobs they would offer full sponsorship with repayments out of salary and a legally binding agreement for 10 years employment, it feels to me like they are worried that there may not be jobs so are making it risk free for themselves, and very high risk for potential candidates - plus ca change
14. Who's to say that when you complete that they won't choose a ctc guy over you, after-all they have a full atpl and type rating too, so essentially better qualified and are probably going to be accepting a lower pay to get the job. - Why would they ? Easy are investing time and money on the course. If it's all about the bottom line (which it is) where's the logic in that ?
I am categorically not standing up for this scheme. However, some of your points appear to be a bit wide of the mark.
3. It's not an atpl until you get your command - no different from a 'traditional' integrated course then
5. The whole training is based on Easyjet sops which makes it invalid elsewhere - no, it doesn't. It merely limits you to the aircraft type
6. Easyjet has just reported first quarter losses of over £100m - actually it's nearly double that, but was predicted. Wait for the second quarter report
7. Easyjets up to now massive growth rate is slowing - the relevance being ?
9. With no guarantee of a job you could essentially end up with no valid license. Not even a ppl! - not according to OAA. The press release on OAA's website states: "Additionally and specifically for MPL students, OAA is also offering the further guarantee of a fully-funded OAA ‘Safety Net’ reversion to an APPFO Integrated ATPL training course in the very unlikely event that the MPL programme ceases for any reason."
10. You will have zero choice on where you will work, say good bye to your family's because Madrid and Paris are always short on crew. - nothing MPL-specific about that.
11. Your receive an Easyjet a320 type rating again based on their seps so is it really going to be valid? Even if your license is? - ??
12. It isn't yet Caa approved, although they guarantee to put through an atpl if they don't accredit it that means how many more years until your online?? - What are the chances of the CAA rejecting the course: 1,000-1 ?
13. If Easyjet really wanted the best quality guys and had guaranteed jobs they would offer full sponsorship with repayments out of salary and a legally binding agreement for 10 years employment, it feels to me like they are worried that there may not be jobs so are making it risk free for themselves, and very high risk for potential candidates - plus ca change
14. Who's to say that when you complete that they won't choose a ctc guy over you, after-all they have a full atpl and type rating too, so essentially better qualified and are probably going to be accepting a lower pay to get the job. - Why would they ? Easy are investing time and money on the course. If it's all about the bottom line (which it is) where's the logic in that ?