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Cost Comparison of Integrated Courses

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Cost Comparison of Integrated Courses

Old 16th Feb 2011, 20:36
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Cost Comparison of Integrated Courses

With the selection of true CAA approved Integrated ATPL courses in Europe limited to only 5 why is there such a variance in price.

CabAir 65K
PTC 67.5K
OAA 77K
CTC 71K
FTE 81

Now these prices do include all exam fees and accommodation but there is still such a big difference between 65K and 81K. Is FTE that much better than CabAir or is it just a rip off considering you come out with the same qualification at the end of it all.

From what I can work out the top three do the flight training in the US, CTC in NZ & FTE Jerez.

Anybody got any thoughts?
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Old 16th Feb 2011, 23:46
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Your figures are wrong Charlie. I clearly explained to you in this post that CTC would cost at a minimum, 80,000 without any additional (but necessary) fees but 95,000 was more realistic after costs. The 71k CTC charge is only the cost of the iCP course which you would be foolish to choose over the Wings course, which is 2 grand less at 69,000. Additionally, iCP has less benefits (no AQC (JCC, MCC etc.). It costs more, and then after you have your fATPL, costs even more money as you take out another 30,000 loan for a type rating. Whatever course you choose, you will have to pay the 17,400 $NZ for the foundation flying course add 10,000 onto anything CTC tells you. YOU HAVE TO PAY THIS, THERE IS NO CHOICE! So now were closer to 79k for ground school/flight training alone, no retests, holidays, shoes, socks, license issue fees, medicals and I am sure you will drink the odd beer in 2.5 years.

What is the point of asking for more opinions if you had ignored the advice given to you anyway, even worse, you have ignored the facts.

As to which is the best school, monetary figures are probably fairly irrelevant (do Cabair provide accommodation?). The top 3 will all work out costing the same, PTC and Cabair will probably cost the same Nobody is going to be able to give you a decent answer. People will always argue either way

Last edited by giggitygiggity; 18th Feb 2011 at 23:55.
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 00:04
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses GGG, i'm not ignoring advice at all I understand that there will be living costs on top I was just trying to look at the course cost cos my living costs are going to be the same whereever I am.

The prices I quoted included accommodation costs + exam fees as I said, the base price of the courses is slightly different. I have added the basic accommodation options on where necessary and exam fees.

Medical cert, and various other unavoidable unpackaged costs, such as type rating, (I'm hoping not to have to pay this as I don't agree with P2F but this may not be avoidable) I understand will add to the overall price, but are going to be the same whichever course I choose.

I go back to my original question and ask why there is such a difference in the cost of the courses when you get the same qualification at the end.

GGG thanks for mentioning the NZ Foundation Flying Course cost, this is the sort of thing I'm looking for, I need to ask about this and will next time I speak to them.

Cheers
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 00:05
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And go modular, and it will cost you 35K, do the maths or just be brainless!
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 10:14
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FTE's fees used to include food as well as accommodation. Don't know if it still does.

Also FTE is priced in Euros and the Euro/Sterling exchange rate is pretty pathetic at the moment.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 11:11
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even more pathetic when you discover you will finish unemployed with your nice blue book!!!
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 11:21
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Another constructive comment from Captain S.

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Old 18th Feb 2011, 15:52
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Just want to confirm CTC costs as I'm starting with them on the 25th April and this is applicable to the Wings Cadet course.

Security Bond - 69,000
Foundation training cost - 8400 (Approx)
Recommended living allowance - 10000
Fees/medical/insurance - 2800 (fees are for legal charge if using BBVA as a funding source)

This doesn't include any exam/test costs.

If placed with a partner airline who recognise the bond system (eg Easyjet) the 69,000 bond will be paid back to the cadet, monthly, over a 7 year period. In effect this brings the course cost down to approx 24000.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 16:39
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Not quite pipersam. If EZY pay you that back over 7 years, you can expect a reduced salary to go with it i.e. I'm pretty sure you'll still only be getting the equivalent, at best, of a non-cadet FO's net income each month - it's just yours will be split into a 'cadet salary' and part of your 69k 'repayment'.

You end up paying one way or another!
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 16:49
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'pipersam' Can you explaing a little more ?
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 17:15
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Not quite pipersam. If EZY pay you that back over 7 years, you can expect a reduced salary to go with it i.e. I'm pretty sure you'll still only be getting the equivalent, at best, of a non-cadet FO's net income each month - it's just yours will be split into a 'cadet salary' and part of your 69k 'repayment'.

You end up paying one way or another!
Regardless of how you pay it back, at least this way there is some hope that your repayments will be met until you move onto bigger and better things.

Consider CabAir - They are highly unlikely to go to the lengths that CTC go to, to find employment for you (this is in no way a criticism of the quality of CabAir's training, on which I am unable to comment) and after visiting both CabAir and CTC, I know which FTO I would want to train with. 1100 per month doesnt come easily!

Pipersam - I think you will find that CTC DO cover your exam and test fees. They just won't cover you for resits, as far as I am aware.

MagicTiger - Go modular. Then enjoy the struggle for a job when you find yourself up against experienced FOs / ex-RAF / an integrated course graduate who has the benefit of course structure behind them. The extra 40,000 might seem a bit much for a bit of structure and some career support (and TR if you're lucky..), but can you really put a price on improving your employability in a harsh job climate like this?

Still, I won't go into the whole Integrated vs Modular thing, I think there is enough info to read on it within PPRuNe to last anyone a few years...
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 17:47
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Do Ezy actually recognise the " bond " anymore given that all their cadets are flexi crew and therefore only paid by the block hour? I don't think they do. So it won't reduce the price at all. It never did anyway really as you were paid a reduced salary to go with the bond repayment. Plan for the thick end of 80k whatever happens.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 22:34
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Originally Posted by bucket_and_spade
Not quite pipersam. If EZY pay you that back over 7 years, you can expect a reduced salary to go with it i.e. I'm pretty sure you'll still only be getting the equivalent, at best, of a non-cadet FO's net income each month - it's just yours will be split into a 'cadet salary' and part of your 69k 'repayment'.

You end up paying one way or another!
I completely understand this, and yes your right, the salary will be roughly equal to a "non-cadet" FO salary including the bond repayment, I was purely stating the course costs without taking any salary information into account.

Originally Posted by Irish Jason
'pipersam' Can you explaing a little more ?
What would you like me to explain?

Originally Posted by markwalker92
Pipersam - I think you will find that CTC DO cover your exam and test fees. They just won't cover you for resits, as far as I am aware.
Yes you are right, I've just checked my terms and conditions. CTC cadets will only have to pay for JAA CPL/IR license issue.
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 09:57
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What allowances do people make for the post-training period where (a) up to 6 months (or in some cases longer) is spent treading water in the CTC swimming baths, and (b) during the initial 8 months effectively spent as a CTC contractor on 1,200 net?

Wherever you're posted (probably abroad), the cost of living plus loan repayments is obviously going to far outweigh CTC's pocket money. I know this (strictly speaking) doesn't fall under the training cost category, but I'm certainly planning for upwards of six figures by the time I can finally stand on my own two feet.
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 10:08
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Wrong, I could take another 35000, buy a TR and 500 hours line training + 12 months guaranteed paid job on 737, that would leave me with 1000 to 1500 hours on type, with that I know 99% sure I could job in Europe.
Total would cost me 70.000, salary during 12 months would be 30.000 to 50.000 euros, expenses for 1.5 year would be around 18.000, but I will be lower end experienced Fo, and still it would have cost me less then intergrated, and I would be much more employable!
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 09:17
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Hey mates, does anyone know if the CTC course include accomodation? I was almost sure they told me so when I first went there this last summer but now seeing the "living allowance" (worth 10K) I'm not entirely sure. Does it refer to direct costs for accomodation or just what they expect you to pay for your living costs such as food or transport?

PS: My first post, from Barcelona btw
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 09:29
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Hi vikdream! I hope the weather in BCN is warmer than it is over here!

To answer your question, yes CTC cover all accomodation during the training course. During the initial training in Southampton you will house share with the other cadets. I think some also stay at their training "mansion" in Dibden. Then out in New Zealand you get to stay in their dedicated accomodation block "Clearways". Then it's back to house sharing in Bournemouth for the IR stuff.

The 10,000 is what is recommended by CTC for food/drink/social activities. You may spend more or less than this. I'm certainly hoping to spend a lot less than this and use the saved money towards my Type Rating.
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 11:20
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Hi pipersam, that's exactly what I thought! and yes, the weather is fantastic here, it feels like we are having no winter!

As for the living allowance money, I think you are right, and taking into account you are given accomodation facilities, you shouldn't be spending more than 400 hundred pounds a month. I don't take it as an extra cost though, because I have to pay for it as well while I'm living at home - well my parents do at the moment I'm afraid -.

77.000 pounds, considering other European flight schools - and I'm talking basically about Spain, I think it's good value for money. It includes fees and accomodation, first class training, TR? - I think for some airlines it does - and, eventually, a job. Some schools around here - and I'm talking about the best ones - offer the course for not much less than that, less flight time, poor quality and no job placements.

Pipersam, would you mind to PM me about you interviews and that? I'm currently at uni in Barcelona but I want to start with the CTC as soon as I finish it. How long did the whole process take? Did you find it difficult? (Do you think it would be harder for a non-native English speaker?). If you have the time - and when you have it - I would be so grateful.

Bests

EDIT: I forgot to ask... Does the price include flight tickets to/from NZ to London?
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 13:09
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Yes the price includes all air travel.

The best advice I can give you is to refer to the CTC thread in this part of the forum. It has a wealth of knowledge from which I referred too, and it helped me prepare for the selection.

Language shouldn't be a problem at all, your English seems perfect to me from your writing. I believe they will require you to pass an English test but I would imagine that this is very basic and you will fly through!

Best of luck in the future!
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 13:10
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If you check on their website in the faq section you should get the answers you are looking for regarding what is included within the price.
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