Wee Weasley Welshman

Setting yourself up as a limited company and then working full time for one other company is something the UK taxman has been stamping on hard for quite a while now.

It'll be OK until they find out and care to stamp it out by issuing massive bills on pain of prison.


WWW

spudgunjon

Right or wrong I've no interest in getting involved or furnishing an opinion, however I would just ask whether or not the UK taxman's jurisdiction now extends to the Emerald Isle???

Please do the very clever people who find these 'loopholes' the courtesy of a bit of respect Weasley old chap, who knows they might even know more about this sort of thing than you!

Alex Whittingham

I don't think so WWW. In my experience the taxman is stamping down on people who set themselves up as self-employed and work for only one company. There's nothing wrong with a limited company doing work for only one company. They have been harassing people who employ their partners essentially to reduce their income tax bills, were you thinking of that?

Mikehotel152

WWW - Brookfield pilots pay tax in Ireland and are therefore obliged to conform to Irish Tax Laws, not those of the UK. Moreover, it is highly likely that for political and economic reasons the Irish Tax Authorities and Ryanair have arrived at a carefully thought-out and entirely legal arrangement to allow these Limited Liability Companies to supply pilots for Ryanair's operations.

DME11.2

@callsign kilo. You say: What confuses the matter is that applying directly to Ryanair isn't the only route that the cadet can take.

Is this possible for a cadet? Because the website says you can only apply via SAA or CAE. Hopefully applying directly to Ryanair opens an extra door, because the normal application seems to take a looong while before you can expect a call;-).

thanks

Wee Weasley Welshman

I'm aware we are talking Irish taxation.

I'm also aware the Irish taxman is under pressure. Possibly from both sides of this particular fence.


Alex - I was thinking of IR35 and paying yourself a dividend and paying employer NI but still saving overall over PAYE.

I'm no tax expert but every other airline seems to have fairly plain vanilla tax arrangements for pilots. What Brookfield boys do with their limited choice of accountants and what deals are done with the taxman in that scrupulously uncorrupt country are way beyond my understanding.

Its just another aspect which generates the distaste that so many pilots feel.


WWW

Halfwayback

Alex, I'm with WWW on this one. I have run my own limited company within the aviation industry for the past 9 years and income from one client is viewed as improper. It is seen as the client evading the costs of employment and the limited company using company tax breaks (what few there are left) to avoid personal income tax. That is certainly the view of a learned Counsel and my company accountants.

HWB

zerotohero

Question on the new BRK contracts

Does not affect me as I am on an older one, but if your paying tax and NI in Iraland, what do you tell the UK tax people when they ask why your not paying in the UK and more but are continueing to live there and are based there too?

Allioth

Hello everyone, just got a call for an interview with Ryanair on the 18th of December in Stansted. Anyone else on that day???
Thanks
Allioth

DME11.2

Hey Allioth,
Great news for you! When and how did you apply?
Good luck .

alfapilot

Hi, sorry to go off topic, but I am approaching the end of the CPL stage of my training, prior to returning to the UK to tackle the IR. Having already committed financial suicide once to fund the ATPL , I wondered what options were out there to fund Ryanair type ratings? Any info would be good!! Think now is a good time to start looking into things. Good luck everyone with any forthcoming selection programs!!

stefair

You can secure a career loan of GBP8,000 tops through Barclay's Bank. A friend of mine said the other day that it has meanwhile been raised to 10k. I haven't checked on this myself so cannot confirm or disconfirm. BB will transfer the money straight to the training provider's bank account. Payments can vary and usually start two months after payout.

Alternatively, go get hired and have at least two pay checks paid into your bank account. Along with a clean credit history you should not have any problems with securing a loan. But beware, I would calculate with EUR40k as there are a lot of hidden costs. You might also be put on hold after your TR for a couple months or so and during that time will not generate any income but still need to eat, etc.

And lastly the safest way of doing it is to do it the old fashioned way and work your ass off for a year and save most of what you earn.

captain_quagmire

Could any current "ryanairers" enlighten us as to the time it took them from finishing the TR to getting on the line?

thanks in advance

IrishJetdriver

Varies. You have to get your licence issued with the TR before any training. With that you're in the hands of your licence issuer but they're usually pretty good.

There can be a bigish gap before starting the line training, possibly in excess of a month. In that case the company will put you back in the sim, at their expense, and let you do a few circuits.

Of course, it could all be very quick but I would expect a minimum of 2 weeks from TR issue.

You'll also be sent to a training base for the line training. This may or may not be in the UK and all costs associated with that are down to you. The company will provide free air travel for you as often as you want it. You just turn up at the gate with your ID (EMA landside pass issued in the first week at EMA) and jump on as a "Jump seater". Usually you just sit down the back like anyone else but it's known as jump seating.

Training bases I think include Stansted, Dublin, Bergamo, Hahn. There are others but I can't remember them at the moment.

stefair

IJD, Interesting read. I think a further line training base is NRN. Spoke with a FO recently after a flight there and he said he had done his LT out of there.

So do I get this right, a new FO will get paid zero during LT? How long does LT usually take?

EK4457

Stefair, I'm not anything to do with FR, but I know a few who are.

Allow 6 weeks for TR. Allow a week on that for base training. Allow 1 month for unexplained gap between TR and line training (can be 2 weeks, can be 6). Whilst on LT you do NOT get paid a penny untill safety pilot is released. This can vary widely, but allow 2 weeks.

That's 3 months of no pay. You then get paid a very basic rate untill LT is completed, usually another month (60 sectors?).

For me personally (mortgage, kid, wife etc) this time would cost me at least £3k with no/little income. Plus the living costs of EMA/CAE/OAA plus the costs of living away during LT, plus 33,000 eur for the TR, I'd need 40,000 eur in order to be confident I could afford the scheme.

Probably the true cost for most people is around this figure.

Or, after tax, you are working for free for 2 years.

I do stand to be corrected by those at the cliff face if the above figures are not quite right.

You pays your money and takes your choice......

EK

stefair

Thank you, EK4457!

It's crazy.

ryanairpilot42

OK!

Lets add some REAL knowlage to the post above

I personaly did base training 4days after my TR, but yes it can take longer, average been 2-3weeks

You get paid after safty pilot is relesed, took me 3 days or 10 sectors, without looking at my training file I think its minimum 8 sectors with safty pilot, I was safty pilot for a kid a couple of weeks ago and he was 18sectors which for him was 6 days flying so just inside 2weeks as he did 12 sectors first week and i was on his 2nd day of his 2nd roster.

then you get paid a lower rate of €35.5 per block hour, as your cheap and need to finish line training to be much use you fly pretty much max hours, so MATH BIT 90hours x 35.5 = €3195 not too bad, take off the first 12 sectors lets say for safty pilot thats still around €2500 more than my mate flying freight who is 3 years in the commpany!

I have been in the company for 2 years now and I have not worked for free! I have a type repayment yes for £475, my average top line this year is £4200 which is divided by 12 to cover the month not flying/earning

i trust that will add some reality to the previous posts.

D O Guerrero

Well, not quite correct.
8 weeks is the usual time for the TR. On completion, I waited about 2 weeks to do my base training (which was much appreciated) and then another couple of weeks to start the supernumerary flights and line training. This would have been much quicker, but I had an admin problem with my IAA licence. A couple of weeks is about right for safety pilot release. I wouldn't say the pay was especially bad during line training. It is the usual FO rate of 55.5 Euro per hour minus 15 Euro per hour until the end of line training (and bizarrely until the end of the calendar month that you complete your line check).
Don't forget when estimating the costs of the TR - you should be able to reclaim the VAT when you establish yourself as a limited company. I did. Also the net costs are tax deductable. Just be sensible, budget for your expenses and stick to it.
Once you're on the line, it all makes sense and you'll make the costs back fairly quickly. Hope that helps...

ryanairpilot42

allmost correct then, but i under paid you by €5 an hour, that can only be a good thing.

the pay hold until end of calander month is a bit of a con, admin excuse to save money i guess, but if you finish on the 28th its ok i guess, 1st would be a bit of a pain.