Ryanair TR Funding
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I agree again with Mike Hotel.
WWW, having accepted that this is a benign (although this thread is somewhat viral) dictatorship, I guess that the least moderators are expected to do is to keep the focus of the original thread topic. For example, in the thread about the BA 777 crash at Heathrow, posters without technical knowledge and little therefore to add, had their posts removed, and quite right too; it kept the required focus to keep the thread relevant. It also made for highly interesting reading. Dictator you may be, open to criticism you are not, or at least that is how it is beginning to look here.
In this thread nobody is suggesting that Ryanair opinion be censored, merely that it be moved elsewhere more relevant to the original poster's topic. That is not here, because otherwise all Ryanair threads will simply dissolve into the same, off-topic slanging. I for one, and I suspect a good many otheres are bored with this.
My colour preference is red.
Anyone got any more answers to the original question?
WWW, having accepted that this is a benign (although this thread is somewhat viral) dictatorship, I guess that the least moderators are expected to do is to keep the focus of the original thread topic. For example, in the thread about the BA 777 crash at Heathrow, posters without technical knowledge and little therefore to add, had their posts removed, and quite right too; it kept the required focus to keep the thread relevant. It also made for highly interesting reading. Dictator you may be, open to criticism you are not, or at least that is how it is beginning to look here.
In this thread nobody is suggesting that Ryanair opinion be censored, merely that it be moved elsewhere more relevant to the original poster's topic. That is not here, because otherwise all Ryanair threads will simply dissolve into the same, off-topic slanging. I for one, and I suspect a good many otheres are bored with this.
My colour preference is red.
Anyone got any more answers to the original question?
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to they guys saying they got a free type rating....
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently, and amazed if you are on same wages as those who did not get a free one!!
If you are on big money and free type rating then you are extremely lucky as name to me one place thats offering that package?!!?
And to beak i think the fact 99% of posters here think you views are wrong(and so strong) says alot, and implies your hiding something, possible fact your type rated on 737 and cant get into RYN.
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently, and amazed if you are on same wages as those who did not get a free one!!
If you are on big money and free type rating then you are extremely lucky as name to me one place thats offering that package?!!?
And to beak i think the fact 99% of posters here think you views are wrong(and so strong) says alot, and implies your hiding something, possible fact your type rated on 737 and cant get into RYN.
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Your credibility wanes as the days go by.
For example, in the thread about the BA 777 crash at Heathrow, posters without technical knowledge and little therefore to add, had their posts removed,
There is a difference with this thread though. Someone hasn't asked a strict, closed question. They have asked a number of questions, have appeared quite leading and open and so have attracted a number of opinions. There is no definate answer to this one, nor are there to the majority of the questions asked on this site. A discussion, which we started having on the topic, will give a mix of views which have been hopefully justified and thought out. It will give a balance and range to the asker. You can't get a more definate answer to such a broad question.
I maintain my views and will continue to justify them to anyone who touches on a topic I feel I can add dimension to.
The way the question concluded to me, with:
or do you really need to find the £30,000 alone!
I would imagine the majority of people applying for ryanair are unemployed pilots, already in debt, and little chance of a bank actually saying "yes" to a £30,000 loan
I would imagine the majority of people applying for ryanair are unemployed pilots, already in debt, and little chance of a bank actually saying "yes" to a £30,000 loan
And to beak i think the fact 99% of posters here think you views are wrong(and so strong) says alot, and implies your hiding something, possible fact your type rated on 737 and cant get into RYN.
Well it isn't a fact, it is a statistic that you have plucked out of thin air. And besides, 99% of all statistics are made up. And I haven't hidden anything. Would I fly for Ryanair if they would take a low experience 737 pilot without extorting me out of 33K for something I already have? Yes.
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Originally Posted by irishpilot1990
to they guys saying they got a free type rating....
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently,
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently,
Originally Posted by irishpilot1990
.... and amazed if you are on same wages as those who did not get a free one!!
Originally Posted by irishpilot1990
If you are on big money and free type rating then you are extremely lucky
Originally Posted by irishpilot1990
....name to me one place thats offering that package?!!?
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Ryanair funding
ORDER ORDER!!!! CAN WE HAVE SOME ORDER!!
Anyone care to go back to the original topic here?
Can anyone give some advice or is willing to share from there own personal experience,from where did they actually manage to secure the funding please?
I believe there may be many interested candidates who are being excluded from applying, simply because they can't find a lender/financial institution that are willing to support this.
(This site is turning into some sort of an 'chat room' for immature,bitter and twisted folk and quite frankly it's not a pleasant place to visit at the moment)!
Let's go back to informed usefull and mature communication.
Anyone agree?
Thank you.
Jimmyjetplane.
Anyone care to go back to the original topic here?
Can anyone give some advice or is willing to share from there own personal experience,from where did they actually manage to secure the funding please?
I believe there may be many interested candidates who are being excluded from applying, simply because they can't find a lender/financial institution that are willing to support this.
(This site is turning into some sort of an 'chat room' for immature,bitter and twisted folk and quite frankly it's not a pleasant place to visit at the moment)!
Let's go back to informed usefull and mature communication.
Anyone agree?
Thank you.
Jimmyjetplane.
Er, Flintstone, as you know, we're talking about Ryanair and the Airline industry, not Bizjets, which are a different kettle of fish.
The Airlines who do pay for their new recruits' type ratings are simply not recruiting at the moment and are unlikely to recommence in the next few years.
The Airlines who do pay for their new recruits' type ratings are simply not recruiting at the moment and are unlikely to recommence in the next few years.
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Nothing specific in irishpilot's post, he/she merely espoused the (flawed) opinion that nobody got a free rating.
Don't mind me though. Same income as an airline captain, fly about 10-12 days a month, six weeks (paid) holiday, per diems, get fed and watered, nice hotels, training and uniform paid, work with nice people, go to nice places, no 'self-employed' nonsense through dodgy accountants. Missed out didn't I? Damn, I feel so stupid
Why is everyone so fixated on Ryanair and the airlines? Fine if you want to do the same old thing day in, day out and in the case of at least RYR be treated as a consumable but there really is better out there. I suppose you just need to wit and imagination to see it.
Don't mind me though. Same income as an airline captain, fly about 10-12 days a month, six weeks (paid) holiday, per diems, get fed and watered, nice hotels, training and uniform paid, work with nice people, go to nice places, no 'self-employed' nonsense through dodgy accountants. Missed out didn't I? Damn, I feel so stupid
Why is everyone so fixated on Ryanair and the airlines? Fine if you want to do the same old thing day in, day out and in the case of at least RYR be treated as a consumable but there really is better out there. I suppose you just need to wit and imagination to see it.
Last edited by Flintstone; 14th Oct 2009 at 22:49.
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Surprised and Amazed
to they guys saying they got a free type rating....
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently, and amazed if you are on same wages as those who did not get a free one!!
If you are on big money and free type rating then you are extremely lucky as name to me one place thats offering that package?!!?
you are in a very extreme minority in this climate.
I would be surprised if you got it recently, and amazed if you are on same wages as those who did not get a free one!!
If you are on big money and free type rating then you are extremely lucky as name to me one place thats offering that package?!!?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I'm in a pretty similar boat to Flintstone. 
Why is everyone so fixated on Ryanair and the airlines? Fine if you want to do the same old thing day in, day out and in the case of at least RYR be treated as a consumable but there really is better out there. I suppose you just need to wit and imagination to see it.
I'm in a pretty similar boat to Flintstone. 
Some wit, some imagination...In reality it's the latter you'll need a lot of if you want to get into Bizjets with 250 hours.
What I think Flintstone and Redsnail are pointing out is that there are (longer-term) options for careers in Aviation other than with Ryanair and the Airlines. Fair point. Good point even. Unfortunately here is not the place to be boasting about how great your lives are when clearly you are not in the same stage of your careers as the people asking about funding Ryanair type ratings. I can assure you both that there are plenty of us who would much prefer to join a Bizjet operator but they won't even look at our CVs...and you know it.
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Flintstone grow up
I agree totally with MikeHotel. Flintstone you are not the only one who gets all the trimmings and benefits in this industry so get off your high horse. No one said you missed out on anything. I get every benefit you get it doesnt mean I have to spell it all out braggingly to cadets who are trying to get the money together for this godforesaken FR type rating.
Yes its not the greatest deal in the world but if these guys pass the line and keep their heads down they will be earning 3 to 5k a month and gaining vauable experience. Better that sitting at home renewing their instrument ratings.
If you or I were cadets now do you think we would get a gig with all the benefits you mentioned? Chances are very slim and you know it.
Yes its not the greatest deal in the world but if these guys pass the line and keep their heads down they will be earning 3 to 5k a month and gaining vauable experience. Better that sitting at home renewing their instrument ratings.
If you or I were cadets now do you think we would get a gig with all the benefits you mentioned? Chances are very slim and you know it.
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Mikehotel,Well said.
Flintstone, firstly I offer my apologies for my lack of elocution (see I do have big words, and can spell when I want them). I also apologise I don’t prove read all my posts on a thread which has fallen into the entertainment category rather then information one.
Fair play to you on landing the dream job mate. Free type and top salary. Nice one.
You knew a contact in a high place, or someone else did, or you are really good and got that bit of much needed luck.
If the majority of us stuck to your principles then we would never get a job. Getting on the ladder is usually the hardest part. And there isn’t enough free type ratings for 10% of us never mind all of us.
And if you are going to say you had no special connections or were not blessed, then one evidently had multiples more then 250 hours and hence other options then paying for type or getting paid low.
And Flintstone thrust me I have the wit and imagination. RYN wont be the only CV I write up or phone call I make….as is the same for everyone else…little less arrogance
would be nice when you know dam well everyone doesn’t have the luxury of sitting around waiting for what you say you have.Times are not good and maybe if you have another job to fall back into you can do this.For most Europeans there is NO job to fall back into and wait.
Flintstone, firstly I offer my apologies for my lack of elocution (see I do have big words, and can spell when I want them). I also apologise I don’t prove read all my posts on a thread which has fallen into the entertainment category rather then information one.
Fair play to you on landing the dream job mate. Free type and top salary. Nice one.
You knew a contact in a high place, or someone else did, or you are really good and got that bit of much needed luck.
If the majority of us stuck to your principles then we would never get a job. Getting on the ladder is usually the hardest part. And there isn’t enough free type ratings for 10% of us never mind all of us.
And if you are going to say you had no special connections or were not blessed, then one evidently had multiples more then 250 hours and hence other options then paying for type or getting paid low.
And Flintstone thrust me I have the wit and imagination. RYN wont be the only CV I write up or phone call I make….as is the same for everyone else…little less arrogance
would be nice when you know dam well everyone doesn’t have the luxury of sitting around waiting for what you say you have.Times are not good and maybe if you have another job to fall back into you can do this.For most Europeans there is NO job to fall back into and wait.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I think you all miss the point. Why does Ryanair need to be your first job?
I have a friend at Ryanair, he's happy for the time being. He joined as a direct entry Captain.
Do you think our bizjet jobs are our first jobs? Heavens no.
Instructing, charter, freight, regional airlines etc were our stepping stones. Both of us have moved continents to seek better jobs.
It's my 6th job.
BTW, bizjets have employed low houred guys, but you have to know where to look.
Do you think we don't know exactly how you feel?
Wondering when someone will say yes?
We know exactly what it's like. It's painful and something I don't want to go through again. Been through it too many times.
It's frustrating like hell but low houred guys deserve a better deal than the one Ryanair demands from you.
Desperation is not a good bargaining chip.
Many of you are in a Catch 22. You've paid over the odds for your CPL/IR and so now you've priced yourselves out of the turboprop & instructing market.
That's very unfortunate.
As for those who feel that the airlines etc shouldn't have to pay for the type rating. Why shouldn't they?
With many new aircraft a certain amount of type ratings are thrown in for FREE from the manufacturer. Also, the airlines get the sim etc at cost price.
You have to pay for the instructor etc, with the airline, the instructor is already paid.
Also, the airlines and in fact all companies of a certain size have to demonstrate that they invest in employee training and enhancement to get subsidies/tax breaks.
Qantaslink in Australia started charging for Dash 8 type ratings. The applications dried up over night. They have now gone back to paying for the type rating & paying the pilots to train.
What sort of employer would you prefer?
If you can get the money without risking your house, your parents house and so forth, fine, just don't go broke "living the dream"...
Good luck
I have a friend at Ryanair, he's happy for the time being. He joined as a direct entry Captain.
Do you think our bizjet jobs are our first jobs? Heavens no.
Instructing, charter, freight, regional airlines etc were our stepping stones. Both of us have moved continents to seek better jobs.
It's my 6th job.
BTW, bizjets have employed low houred guys, but you have to know where to look.
Do you think we don't know exactly how you feel?
Wondering when someone will say yes?
We know exactly what it's like. It's painful and something I don't want to go through again. Been through it too many times.
It's frustrating like hell but low houred guys deserve a better deal than the one Ryanair demands from you.
Desperation is not a good bargaining chip.
Many of you are in a Catch 22. You've paid over the odds for your CPL/IR and so now you've priced yourselves out of the turboprop & instructing market.
That's very unfortunate.
As for those who feel that the airlines etc shouldn't have to pay for the type rating. Why shouldn't they?
With many new aircraft a certain amount of type ratings are thrown in for FREE from the manufacturer. Also, the airlines get the sim etc at cost price.
You have to pay for the instructor etc, with the airline, the instructor is already paid.
Also, the airlines and in fact all companies of a certain size have to demonstrate that they invest in employee training and enhancement to get subsidies/tax breaks.
Qantaslink in Australia started charging for Dash 8 type ratings. The applications dried up over night. They have now gone back to paying for the type rating & paying the pilots to train.
What sort of employer would you prefer?
If you can get the money without risking your house, your parents house and so forth, fine, just don't go broke "living the dream"...
Good luck
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With many new aircraft a certain amount of type ratings are thrown in for FREE from the manufacturer
Also, the airlines get the sim etc at cost price
Mutt
Seeing as the Mods believe this thread should degenerate into a Ryanair debate, I'll bite:
No, we haven't missed the point! It doesn't have to be a first job, but it's not an awful option. In any case, you are not comparing like with like. The market was very different when you were starting out.
You suggest:
for first jobs.
There are very few instructing jobs. FTOs have suffered in this recession and it is constant advice on this forum that a £7K FI Rating is not the key to hours it might have been even 3 years ago. In any case, instructing without any real motivatation to teach is intrinsically bad IMHO. In the past, Airlines did not take on low-hour pilots, so the route you followed was the norm. Things have changed. Given the choice between paying £7K in order to earn over £120K over 3 years to build 1500 737NG hours, I know which I would prefer.
Charter? Are you suggesting charter Airlines are recruiting pilots? They haven't suffered in the recession due to lack of demand, shedding jobs left, right and centre. The contacts I have are scared for their own jobs even though my CV has received good comments by being on the right desk (albeit at the wrong time!)
Freight? As with charter, they're not recruiting more than the odd few pilots, mostly, if not all, with plenty of hours. Many freight operators fly large aircraft and have the choice of many, many out of work experienced pilots.
Regional airlines? I'm sorry but the Eastern Airlines of this world only take people with 1000 hours minimum and the ones who do take low-hour pilots have closed their applications systems. Flybe etc have stopped recruitment too. I could list many other Airlines that aren't recruiting or have drowned under a massive weight of CVs.
Look, I'm not saying that there are no jobs out there but they are so few and far between that you could spend 2 years driving up and down the country with your CV and not even get an interview. Some of us don't want to be in the same position for the next 2 years and must get.
Ryanair and their expensive Type Rating offer a way to get a very good flying job on reasonable terms and conditions provided you are willing to put up with their awful system.
If that's true then I would put it down to Australia being a small market with unique recruitment needs. Anyone advertising pilot jobs in the UK or Europe, whether charging for Type Ratings or not, is swamped with hundreds, if not thousands, of applications from hopefuls.
That is the situation with Ryanair.
I'm not desperate but I will be flying a 737NG in 3 months time, earning a decent wage. In 2 years time I will have unfrozen my ATPL and in 3-4 years time I will be either a Captain or I will have moved to an Airline with better terms and conditions. I'm not desperate, I'm just sensible.
And not a very good one either.
I think you all miss the point. Why does Ryanair need to be your first job?
You suggest:
Instructing, charter, freight, regional airlines
There are very few instructing jobs. FTOs have suffered in this recession and it is constant advice on this forum that a £7K FI Rating is not the key to hours it might have been even 3 years ago. In any case, instructing without any real motivatation to teach is intrinsically bad IMHO. In the past, Airlines did not take on low-hour pilots, so the route you followed was the norm. Things have changed. Given the choice between paying £7K in order to earn over £120K over 3 years to build 1500 737NG hours, I know which I would prefer.
Charter? Are you suggesting charter Airlines are recruiting pilots? They haven't suffered in the recession due to lack of demand, shedding jobs left, right and centre. The contacts I have are scared for their own jobs even though my CV has received good comments by being on the right desk (albeit at the wrong time!)
Freight? As with charter, they're not recruiting more than the odd few pilots, mostly, if not all, with plenty of hours. Many freight operators fly large aircraft and have the choice of many, many out of work experienced pilots.
Regional airlines? I'm sorry but the Eastern Airlines of this world only take people with 1000 hours minimum and the ones who do take low-hour pilots have closed their applications systems. Flybe etc have stopped recruitment too. I could list many other Airlines that aren't recruiting or have drowned under a massive weight of CVs.
Look, I'm not saying that there are no jobs out there but they are so few and far between that you could spend 2 years driving up and down the country with your CV and not even get an interview. Some of us don't want to be in the same position for the next 2 years and must get.
Ryanair and their expensive Type Rating offer a way to get a very good flying job on reasonable terms and conditions provided you are willing to put up with their awful system.
Qantaslink in Australia started charging for Dash 8 type ratings. The applications dried up over night.
That is the situation with Ryanair.
Desperation is not a good bargaining chip
And there is your answer
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Since I was accused of having it comparatively easy...
I finished my CPL in 1991. There was a recession. Had to wait 3 years for my first full time job. Instructed part time on the weekends waiting for the market to improve.
In a population of 22 million, a couple of hundred applications is the same as a couple of thousand "over here". There are more jobs in Europe/UK than there are in Australia/New Zealand, esp jet jobs.
I got my JAA ATPL in 2001/2002. In fact I was in an ATPL theory class in Coventry when the WTC were attacked. Yes, another recession..
My timing's been lousy.
Where did I say it was easy? We have been accused of "not understanding". We do understand, we've been there and we know that it does improve.
Market rates for simulators change. What CAE & Alteon etc will charge an individual is different to what they charge a company. Also, if a company pays for your rating, the instructor is paid by the company and you'll be paid to train.
What we also know is that not every one who graduates with a CPL will get a job. That's something the flight schools do not tell you.
If you want to go the Ryanair* route, go for it, just read the contract very closely, get it scrutinised by an lawyer so you know exactly what you are getting yourself into (tax, NI, base location and transfers, hotac, stby, sim etc). Don't be blinded by the shiny jet.
And as I posted earlier, don't go broke "living the dream".
Good luck
* or any other company that charges for a type rating and hires you as a contractor, not as an employee.
I finished my CPL in 1991. There was a recession. Had to wait 3 years for my first full time job. Instructed part time on the weekends waiting for the market to improve.
In a population of 22 million, a couple of hundred applications is the same as a couple of thousand "over here". There are more jobs in Europe/UK than there are in Australia/New Zealand, esp jet jobs.
I got my JAA ATPL in 2001/2002. In fact I was in an ATPL theory class in Coventry when the WTC were attacked. Yes, another recession..
My timing's been lousy.
Where did I say it was easy? We have been accused of "not understanding". We do understand, we've been there and we know that it does improve.
Market rates for simulators change. What CAE & Alteon etc will charge an individual is different to what they charge a company. Also, if a company pays for your rating, the instructor is paid by the company and you'll be paid to train.
What we also know is that not every one who graduates with a CPL will get a job. That's something the flight schools do not tell you.
If you want to go the Ryanair* route, go for it, just read the contract very closely, get it scrutinised by an lawyer so you know exactly what you are getting yourself into (tax, NI, base location and transfers, hotac, stby, sim etc). Don't be blinded by the shiny jet.
And as I posted earlier, don't go broke "living the dream".
Good luck
* or any other company that charges for a type rating and hires you as a contractor, not as an employee.
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Redsnail,
I agree with you in principle, but as you know the reality is that unlike Australasia and the US there is no GA industry in Europe capable of supporting the needs of the airlines. Africa is an option, but the opportunities are still limited.
With regard to the regionals, their requirements are no different from anybody else's. For most you simply will not get a look in if you are not prepared to stump up the cash.
I am absolutely certain, that the guys posting here would jump at an Aer Arann, Aurigny,Air Soutwest, Eastern, etc if the offer came rather than pay for a FR TR. But as they all ask for money FR would probably be the first port of call for many.
The Quantaslink situation is interesting. But seeing as Jetstar was and will be expanding rapidly and taking on GA guys with twin time, what right thinking Aussie would pay for a TP TR when they could pay for an A320 one and earn more?
With regards to the TRs, I don't think it is as straight forward as that. Our airline leases all its aircraft, they don't come with TRs. Whilst it is arguable that TR is a significant cost, I cannot understand how pilots can agree to pay for line training, that just baggers belief!
I agree with you in principle, but as you know the reality is that unlike Australasia and the US there is no GA industry in Europe capable of supporting the needs of the airlines. Africa is an option, but the opportunities are still limited.
With regard to the regionals, their requirements are no different from anybody else's. For most you simply will not get a look in if you are not prepared to stump up the cash.
I am absolutely certain, that the guys posting here would jump at an Aer Arann, Aurigny,Air Soutwest, Eastern, etc if the offer came rather than pay for a FR TR. But as they all ask for money FR would probably be the first port of call for many.
The Quantaslink situation is interesting. But seeing as Jetstar was and will be expanding rapidly and taking on GA guys with twin time, what right thinking Aussie would pay for a TP TR when they could pay for an A320 one and earn more?
With regards to the TRs, I don't think it is as straight forward as that. Our airline leases all its aircraft, they don't come with TRs. Whilst it is arguable that TR is a significant cost, I cannot understand how pilots can agree to pay for line training, that just baggers belief!