Ryanair TR Funding
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Exactly v6g.
If anyone ever needed proof that Ryanair put no weight upon the interview stage of their selection, just have a read of this thread.
The calibre of some of you people is appaling, no wonder Ts and Cs are dropping like a stone. I wouldn't give you a permanant contract either.
Well spotted by BN there also, there was no need for TT to remove the RAF portion of his career. And I don't feel your justification, justifies. Clearly another Ryanair walt.
It's a shame you aren't aware of how boring the 'I'm not afraid of a hard days work stories are......'
Classic sign of arrogance.
I stand by what I have said with regards to this airline, its practices and the majority of its PPRUNE posting employees.
If anyone ever needed proof that Ryanair put no weight upon the interview stage of their selection, just have a read of this thread.
The calibre of some of you people is appaling, no wonder Ts and Cs are dropping like a stone. I wouldn't give you a permanant contract either.
Well spotted by BN there also, there was no need for TT to remove the RAF portion of his career. And I don't feel your justification, justifies. Clearly another Ryanair walt.
I know how boring 'when I was in the RAF...' stories can get
Classic sign of arrogance.
I stand by what I have said with regards to this airline, its practices and the majority of its PPRUNE posting employees.
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Crikey Beak, the real world must be a very confusing and scary place for you. There can't actually be any staff working for Ryanair at all, seeing as you accuse every single person of being a 'Walt'.
I have laid my cards on the table for you, to back up my statements, and have given you my career history, including the inbetween job that many people would probably take the p--s out of. You, on the other hand, tell us nothing solid about yourself and yet accuse me of lying about both the pilot jobs I have had.
What more do I have to do? Maybe I need to scan my airside pass and my old F1250 (do you know what that is Beak) before we can have a sensible discussion. Well, I'm not going to do that. I've done enough already to bust my anonymity to those actually IN the industry who know me and the bottom line is that I couldn't give a monkey's what you choose to believe. I'm sure most people can read my posts and your posts and draw their own conclusions.
I have never been an arrogant or aggressive person but, by God, you seem to do your best to drive people to it. Your denial of any facts that don't suit your mental model and your general manner are going make for job interview hilarity - you really are putting a ball and chain around your own ankle.
I have laid my cards on the table for you, to back up my statements, and have given you my career history, including the inbetween job that many people would probably take the p--s out of. You, on the other hand, tell us nothing solid about yourself and yet accuse me of lying about both the pilot jobs I have had.
What more do I have to do? Maybe I need to scan my airside pass and my old F1250 (do you know what that is Beak) before we can have a sensible discussion. Well, I'm not going to do that. I've done enough already to bust my anonymity to those actually IN the industry who know me and the bottom line is that I couldn't give a monkey's what you choose to believe. I'm sure most people can read my posts and your posts and draw their own conclusions.
I have never been an arrogant or aggressive person but, by God, you seem to do your best to drive people to it. Your denial of any facts that don't suit your mental model and your general manner are going make for job interview hilarity - you really are putting a ball and chain around your own ankle.
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Just for balance
I did my first initial type rating in March.
I didn't have to pay for it and I joined on the standard FO salary for my company. So it's not fair to say that there is no such thing as a free rating. It is fair though to say they are very rare - even more so now
I would hope that most people considering FR are going in with their eyes open with regards to the contract. I am given to understand that the quality of training is very high and clearly the fleet is modern.
As a new FO, I think FR is a reasonable starting point in terms of the experience you will build and for unfreezing your ATPL.
I couldn't have stretched to the SSTR myself and I don't want to get drawn on the detrimental affect these have on future T&C's.
I can certainly understand both sides of the argument with those who take loans / family assistance for a considered risk/reward view towards FR (being pretty much the only gig in town) and what must undeniably be a huge sense of pride and achievement to those who work & save towards their licence and that ultimate prize of the first job without leaning on anyone else.
My own situation leans strongly towards the latter and that helps me sleep at night knowing that even if I were made redundant tomorrow, I have a previous career I can fall straight back into and nobody else's assets are at risk.
The nature of this site is to debate, and as such there are at least 2 sides to each story / thread. The Beak offers a viewpoint in which I see a good deal of value - but then it is pretty easy for me to say so as I am in the extremely fortunate position of being employed. But also guys like TT highlight that not everyone going to Ryanair is a fresh-faced 19yo leaning fully on the rose-tinted specs of their parents.
Before people post on here (and mostly it is behind anonymous monikers) take a moment to consider whether you would say the same thing to someone over a beer in a bar downroute.
Anyways, I am on hotel standby so need to find something else to do with my time. To the gym methinks.
I didn't have to pay for it and I joined on the standard FO salary for my company. So it's not fair to say that there is no such thing as a free rating. It is fair though to say they are very rare - even more so now
I would hope that most people considering FR are going in with their eyes open with regards to the contract. I am given to understand that the quality of training is very high and clearly the fleet is modern.
As a new FO, I think FR is a reasonable starting point in terms of the experience you will build and for unfreezing your ATPL.
I couldn't have stretched to the SSTR myself and I don't want to get drawn on the detrimental affect these have on future T&C's.
I can certainly understand both sides of the argument with those who take loans / family assistance for a considered risk/reward view towards FR (being pretty much the only gig in town) and what must undeniably be a huge sense of pride and achievement to those who work & save towards their licence and that ultimate prize of the first job without leaning on anyone else.
My own situation leans strongly towards the latter and that helps me sleep at night knowing that even if I were made redundant tomorrow, I have a previous career I can fall straight back into and nobody else's assets are at risk.
The nature of this site is to debate, and as such there are at least 2 sides to each story / thread. The Beak offers a viewpoint in which I see a good deal of value - but then it is pretty easy for me to say so as I am in the extremely fortunate position of being employed. But also guys like TT highlight that not everyone going to Ryanair is a fresh-faced 19yo leaning fully on the rose-tinted specs of their parents.
Before people post on here (and mostly it is behind anonymous monikers) take a moment to consider whether you would say the same thing to someone over a beer in a bar downroute.
Anyways, I am on hotel standby so need to find something else to do with my time. To the gym methinks.
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A sensible, balanced post. Thank you, that's all we want.
I said I wouldn't but then I couldn't resist. Here's a little something just for you Beak.
At least you believe my coffee making exploits. (Do you?)
Just a few things I happened to have hanging in the wardrobe. I suppose you'll accuse me of having run down to a very well stocked fancy dress shop within the last half hour! I could have done the same with ID cards, but I really don't want you turning up outside my house in the middle of the night.
Don't feel you have to apologize to me again. I've become accustomed to your debating style.
I said I wouldn't but then I couldn't resist. Here's a little something just for you Beak.
You claim to have been an RAF pilot before - probably more like RAF regiment.
Clearly another Ryanair walt.
Just a few things I happened to have hanging in the wardrobe. I suppose you'll accuse me of having run down to a very well stocked fancy dress shop within the last half hour! I could have done the same with ID cards, but I really don't want you turning up outside my house in the middle of the night.
Don't feel you have to apologize to me again. I've become accustomed to your debating style.
Last edited by Torque Tonight; 12th Oct 2009 at 12:22. Reason: Don't want to be too mean to the poor little fella.
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I am not unemployed however I am not an employed pilot at the moment. I am in some pilot holdpools and I am waiting longingly to be picked up. I do believe that not taking the easy, expensive and short term option is the correct option for me and anyone else. If I wasn't in the holdpools I would feel the same.
beak you are a dreamer man, a complete and utter dreamer
beak you are a dreamer man, a complete and utter dreamer
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Amazed!
I have returned onto PPRUNE for the first time in months, to be confronted by sheer rage and disbelief with how someone like TheBeak can exist in our community. I understand that there are some bitter and twisted pilots out there and probably rightly so, having probably been used and abused by many different airlines and caught in the wrong situation more than once.
However, I only read the first page of this thread as quite frankly I was appalled with your arrogance TheBeak. I'm not sure who you are or what you do. What I do know is that you've come through OAA on the modular course in recent years. Now is this what the crux of the problem is. Are you jealous about those younger than you who could afford the integrated course? Did your mummy and daddy not have enough money for you to do the course when you were still young and impressionable and dare I say it, polite? (BTW, those who know me know I'm not saying that the Modular route is a lesser route, just a different way. If I wasn't sponsored, then I would have been on the Modular route myself.)
Personally, if I could have afforded it when I was 18, then I know for a fact my life would be in a far better position at this age than it is now. I think anyone that can do the integrated course and then the RYR TR at the age of 18-21 is a better man than me.
As far as parasite is concerned. You mention issues such as borrowing off mummy and daddy or using a spouse’s agreement for securing the loan to the house etc. Is this again a sign of bitterness that your spouse wouldn't let you do this; if indeed a human being could bear to buy a house and share it with you.
There are a lot of people on this forum who know me and I'm not going to justify who I am. But I will say that if I wasn't in the fortunate situation that I am, I would regrettably not be able to afford the RYR TR. For all those who are; of whom I know many, good luck and I'm sure it'll be more than worth it when you buggers have 4 stripes and I'll be just getting my SFO pay rise. Who's to say that these "parasites" are not going to repay the favour and indeed the money to their loved ones (do I need to explain love? If so TheBeak, it's that warm fuzzy feeling I imagine you have when you look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself "I'm the man" just before your mother brings you your tea and toast in the morning)
Lastly, TheBeak, you've done nothing but make me think you are immature and probably not the sharpest tool in the shed. I particularly loved the comment when you stated that you haven't personally offended anyone. YOU do not decide if you've offended anyone, it's the people you are speaking to that decide if they are offended. I can clearly see that you have offended most people that have read and indeed replied to this.
Cpt. Rosco, I look forward with glee to any comments you have on this issue. All I can say to TheBeak is quite honestly I hope I never have to work with you as I think your attitude to others stinks.
And if you correct my grammar or diction. I'm a
pilot and I don't care. I left defence writing behind quite a few years ago and good riddance. x
However, I only read the first page of this thread as quite frankly I was appalled with your arrogance TheBeak. I'm not sure who you are or what you do. What I do know is that you've come through OAA on the modular course in recent years. Now is this what the crux of the problem is. Are you jealous about those younger than you who could afford the integrated course? Did your mummy and daddy not have enough money for you to do the course when you were still young and impressionable and dare I say it, polite? (BTW, those who know me know I'm not saying that the Modular route is a lesser route, just a different way. If I wasn't sponsored, then I would have been on the Modular route myself.)
Personally, if I could have afforded it when I was 18, then I know for a fact my life would be in a far better position at this age than it is now. I think anyone that can do the integrated course and then the RYR TR at the age of 18-21 is a better man than me.
As far as parasite is concerned. You mention issues such as borrowing off mummy and daddy or using a spouse’s agreement for securing the loan to the house etc. Is this again a sign of bitterness that your spouse wouldn't let you do this; if indeed a human being could bear to buy a house and share it with you.
There are a lot of people on this forum who know me and I'm not going to justify who I am. But I will say that if I wasn't in the fortunate situation that I am, I would regrettably not be able to afford the RYR TR. For all those who are; of whom I know many, good luck and I'm sure it'll be more than worth it when you buggers have 4 stripes and I'll be just getting my SFO pay rise. Who's to say that these "parasites" are not going to repay the favour and indeed the money to their loved ones (do I need to explain love? If so TheBeak, it's that warm fuzzy feeling I imagine you have when you look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself "I'm the man" just before your mother brings you your tea and toast in the morning)
Lastly, TheBeak, you've done nothing but make me think you are immature and probably not the sharpest tool in the shed. I particularly loved the comment when you stated that you haven't personally offended anyone. YOU do not decide if you've offended anyone, it's the people you are speaking to that decide if they are offended. I can clearly see that you have offended most people that have read and indeed replied to this.
Cpt. Rosco, I look forward with glee to any comments you have on this issue. All I can say to TheBeak is quite honestly I hope I never have to work with you as I think your attitude to others stinks.
And if you correct my grammar or diction. I'm a
pilot and I don't care. I left defence writing behind quite a few years ago and good riddance. x
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Couldn't have put it any better myself P-T. We wait with baited breath for Beak's response, although I'm sure he'l find someway of manipulating what you have said and give us the same old spiel we keep hearing from him. Just a little clue the Beak may not be the sharpest tool in the box....
2nd April 2009, 17:59
TheBeak
"Somewhere that has the Twinstar, they are the planes to do your IR on. Absolute beauties......the FADEC and the G1000 make things ALOT easier and free up capacity."
Particular emphasis on the last three words....Beak needs all the spare capacity he can get.
2nd April 2009, 17:59 TheBeak
"Somewhere that has the Twinstar, they are the planes to do your IR on. Absolute beauties......the FADEC and the G1000 make things ALOT easier and free up capacity."
Particular emphasis on the last three words....Beak needs all the spare capacity he can get.
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The Beak has gone quiet. (good)
Maybe the thread can go back on topic?
Options for funding a RYR TR are:
Career loan (25k max?)
Parents
Secured Loan
Lottery win
Can't really think of any others.
Maybe there is no such thing as a free type rating, but I suppose I did get paid from day 1 and didn't have to use any of my parent’s equity or cash.
What's the salary at RYR? I've seen all kinds of figures ranging from 35-60k.
Any RYR boys or girls care to spell it out?
Superdash
Maybe the thread can go back on topic?
Options for funding a RYR TR are:
Career loan (25k max?)
Parents
Secured Loan
Lottery win
Can't really think of any others.
Maybe there is no such thing as a free type rating, but I suppose I did get paid from day 1 and didn't have to use any of my parent’s equity or cash.
What's the salary at RYR? I've seen all kinds of figures ranging from 35-60k.
Any RYR boys or girls care to spell it out?
Superdash
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The Beak
Yes I am clearly not a Ryanair pilot, that’s why my first post on here was looking for digs in our Madrid base! Lol
You know what, you stick to making up perfect grammar and quoted facts on Ryanair and why you won’t fly for them (or anybody right now) because you clearly have the time on your hands and ill stick to flying a 737 for good money and loving going to work every day.
Enjoy your little rants and ill enjoy having a flying job I love.
Yes I am clearly not a Ryanair pilot, that’s why my first post on here was looking for digs in our Madrid base! Lol
You know what, you stick to making up perfect grammar and quoted facts on Ryanair and why you won’t fly for them (or anybody right now) because you clearly have the time on your hands and ill stick to flying a 737 for good money and loving going to work every day.
Enjoy your little rants and ill enjoy having a flying job I love.
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Beak
Who's the parasite?
These rants smack of New Labour, which is probably for the best given that they've just upped your Job Seekers Allowance.
Any parent that loans/gives their son/daughter money, surely does so with careful thought. It still seems more than intrusive to me, that any person can say this is right or wrong.
I'm way too old to fall into your Mummy's little darling box, but feel that the notion that you can pigeon hole these young wannabes as mere 'spoilt brats' is nothing more than the ravings of a Union crazed pit worker.
What the do you want them to do, pay back their school fees too?
Regards
CR
Who's the parasite?
These rants smack of New Labour, which is probably for the best given that they've just upped your Job Seekers Allowance.
Any parent that loans/gives their son/daughter money, surely does so with careful thought. It still seems more than intrusive to me, that any person can say this is right or wrong.
I'm way too old to fall into your Mummy's little darling box, but feel that the notion that you can pigeon hole these young wannabes as mere 'spoilt brats' is nothing more than the ravings of a Union crazed pit worker.
What the
do you want them to do, pay back their school fees too?Regards
CR
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Mr Hollingworth,
This is not meant as an attack on you personally, but........
..... is it not a little disingenuous to make a statement about free type ratings and being on a standard FOs money, when my guess would be that you are on 60% pay for 4 years along with so many others at NJs?
Wally.
This is not meant as an attack on you personally, but........
..... is it not a little disingenuous to make a statement about free type ratings and being on a standard FOs money, when my guess would be that you are on 60% pay for 4 years along with so many others at NJs?
Wally.
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Beak, i'm certain that you're never wrong about anything. There's nothing anyone can say to help you because you're so convinced that your point of view out-ranks all others. Your generalisations, half-baked facts and arrogance are breathtaking.
Love or hate ryanair (or easy, BA et al), most people can see both sides of the argument, at least to some degree. You're a bit odd actually, you can’t let it go, even if you have to argue that black is white.
I've read posts by you in another thread on FR. Your analysis and arguments were so infantile its not worth debating with you.
Love or hate ryanair (or easy, BA et al), most people can see both sides of the argument, at least to some degree. You're a bit odd actually, you can’t let it go, even if you have to argue that black is white.
I've read posts by you in another thread on FR. Your analysis and arguments were so infantile its not worth debating with you.
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Mr Hollingworth,
This is not meant as an attack on you personally, but........
This is not meant as an attack on you personally, but........
Although to be fair - that was one of 5 'voluntary' options which people considered based on their own unique set of personal circumstances and doesn't have a direct bearing on the type rating.
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Can't let it go? You're arguing with yourselves. I have said my piece and the more sensible will take note. I am not having an argument with people I don't know and who make up assumed insults to curry favour and 'make friends'. You haven't been able to fight the corner of Ryanair and your methods of financing your opportunity so you have defended yourselves, even TT. It's the only battle he could win. But you'll never win the war.
The 'you work in McDonalds' , 'just because you couldn't afford' and 'you're bitter' comments don't address the debate, are a million miles from the truth and show your lack of understanding to discuss the situation. What your parents did for you as a 7 - 18 year old whilst at school and what your parents do for you there after as a 22, 25, 32 year old are very different stories. If you are still taking the handouts in the later stages the you are the New Labour person. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.
Anyway I must dash, I have to go change the oil on the deep fat fryers......
The 'you work in McDonalds' , 'just because you couldn't afford' and 'you're bitter' comments don't address the debate, are a million miles from the truth and show your lack of understanding to discuss the situation. What your parents did for you as a 7 - 18 year old whilst at school and what your parents do for you there after as a 22, 25, 32 year old are very different stories. If you are still taking the handouts in the later stages the you are the New Labour person. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.
Anyway I must dash, I have to go change the oil on the deep fat fryers......
Last edited by TheBeak; 13th Oct 2009 at 06:04.
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Phil,
It does have a bearing on type ratings (if I understand you).
I don't understand how airlines can afford to provide people with a free type rating. The economics of it do not make sense to me. I could understand, I think, that there remains an argument for airlines trying to train experienced pilots for free, as the training risks are lower than for the likes of newbies such as you or I, and especially as we are both older and less easy to train than our 18-25yr old colleagues. The idea of being given a free training course seems odd to me, and there are few airlines that do it. RYR make you pay upfront, BA and many others make you pay by way of reduced salary, and those that still do genuinely give it away for nothing will surely stop soon?
Open question to all members - what is the argument for free type ratings, I have had a trawl through a lot of threads on RYR and many others, and have not seen a succinct argument put as to why the airlines, and not us, should pay.
Wally.
It does have a bearing on type ratings (if I understand you).
I don't understand how airlines can afford to provide people with a free type rating. The economics of it do not make sense to me. I could understand, I think, that there remains an argument for airlines trying to train experienced pilots for free, as the training risks are lower than for the likes of newbies such as you or I, and especially as we are both older and less easy to train than our 18-25yr old colleagues. The idea of being given a free training course seems odd to me, and there are few airlines that do it. RYR make you pay upfront, BA and many others make you pay by way of reduced salary, and those that still do genuinely give it away for nothing will surely stop soon?
Open question to all members - what is the argument for free type ratings, I have had a trawl through a lot of threads on RYR and many others, and have not seen a succinct argument put as to why the airlines, and not us, should pay.
Wally.
I think it's very sad and frustrating that the Moderator has not posted a warning on this thread that people should stick to the topic or face being barred from the Forum. The topic in this case is not a full-blown argument about the sense or madness of agreeing to work for Ryanair. But, sadly, it seems every thread that is started by someone genuinely seeking information about Ryanair is ruined. Please can the Moderators ensure that this is no longer allowed; it isn't in other parts of the Forum and shouldn't be tolerated here simply because this it the Wannabes section!
Back on topic:
Yes, you do get an unsigned and undated letter 'To Whom it may concern' confirming that you have signed a contract with Brookfield to join the pool of pilots supplied to Ryanair. There is no mention of projected earning. I would say it's completely worthless in terms of providing evidence of employment for the purposes of borrowing money.
Personally, together with my spouse, I have borrowed the money from a bank. How and why I did that are my business, but I rest assured knowing that I would be able to service the debt even if things were to go tits-up with Ryanair. I sympathise with people who are not in my fortunate position and would take a different view of borrowing money in order to join Ryanair if I were younger, had fewer responsibilities, or did not have another career to fall back on.
Each to his or her own.
Back on topic:
I believe you can get a statement of 'expected' earnings and a copy of your contract from Brookfield
Personally, together with my spouse, I have borrowed the money from a bank. How and why I did that are my business, but I rest assured knowing that I would be able to service the debt even if things were to go tits-up with Ryanair. I sympathise with people who are not in my fortunate position and would take a different view of borrowing money in order to join Ryanair if I were younger, had fewer responsibilities, or did not have another career to fall back on.
Each to his or her own.
