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Ryanair TR Funding

Old 26th Oct 2009, 12:45
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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When I say big airline I mean one that does a vast amount of differing length routes, eg medium and long haul, you have to think about the future and an upgrade in the Boeing family would be ideal! So hopefully RYR will go long haul like planned then there will be no need to move airlines in 15 years or so! Who knows I may even change my mind and prefer short haul, but until I try it I really can't say! Who knows what the world may bring? Do you yourself have any ideas, suggestions or advice?
Thankyou in advance,
Tommy
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Old 26th Oct 2009, 14:10
  #242 (permalink)  
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If the Ryanair deal wasn't £33k and if it led to a full time contract I'd be heartily instead of resignedly recommending people apply for it.

But that is a massive, ten storey, backlit, neon edged IF.


If I put my MOL hat on for a moment my plan would be this.

* Lets start selling a SSTR/line flying product, lets say charge twice the normal cost to allow for a suitable margin.

* If they have a pulse, a license, a cheque for £33k and can pass a basic sim assessment - that'll do.

* We need some fresh blood to occupy the RHS anyway as we're expanding. If we stop then these people can be just switched off as they're just Brookfield contractors.

* If the SSTR/line flying product proves really popular and really profitable then we'll take shedloads and just shove people onto Brookfield contracts and give them such little work they either starve or leave to pack boxes in a factory, or jump off a bridge, or whatever.



So you can see the risk either too many people willing to hand over £33k, or, a slowdown, halt or retraction in the size of the fleet and you've paid your money in order to be a Brooky being offered 2 sectors a month.

That would hurt.



WWW
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Old 26th Oct 2009, 20:22
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks so much Eagerbeaver and Irishpilot.

As always a good post by WWW.
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Old 26th Oct 2009, 20:59
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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I joined FR over a year ago, as a cadet but I went about the whole route sensibly, a full time job through the course of achieving my fATPL, zero finance until I opted for the banks support to do the FR TR, mainly because no other options were available to me at that time. If I didn't go down this route, then I suspect right now, I would be unemployed with a wealthy list of experienced guys ahead of me, most of you will know all about this unfortunately and I do hope you're break comes soon. To me, FR was the best choice in a bad situation and personally I think its better than the one CTC were offering, especially now that their cadets we're basically a packet of orange condoms, sticking with the theme, FR guys being the prostitutes! I suppose you can say, we get multiple times, but we're not binned... and I'm not saying that in a harsh way, its just the sad reality in my opinion.

Last edited by McBruce; 26th Oct 2009 at 21:27.
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Old 26th Oct 2009, 21:14
  #245 (permalink)  
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Well done for making the best move available to you. Whilst FR are expanding, and they are for a good while yet, then its not such a bad deal. It could become woeful in the blink of an eye but then you didn't get to this point without already taking high levels of risk.


The bar just keeps getting higher to jump. Surely eventually nobody will start the run up?


WWW
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Old 26th Oct 2009, 21:49
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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Having issued that statement, and knowing several nice people who are engaged upon the scheme - its a pile of shit.

You're paying 50% above list price for a type rating. You're going to be O Leary's bitch for 6 months and then you're going to be shot in the head or told to sign up to Brookfield. Which is kind of the same thing.
Whilst FR are expanding, and they are for a good while yet, then its not such a bad deal.
I'd go with your first opinion WWW
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 09:48
  #247 (permalink)  
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I like to look at coins on both sides.


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Old 27th Oct 2009, 18:24
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Evening all,

I'm trying to think of any post I have ever seen on Prune involving a person being ejected from the Ryanair camp for any other reason than being sh*te?

Given Prune's recent status as a whinge pedestal for anyone who'll listen, I'd say the chances of a disgruntled RYR pilot advocating the companies unsuitablitly on here would be very, very high.

I'm tooth combing the archives and I can't find a thing..........

Regards
CR
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 18:36
  #249 (permalink)  
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 18:47
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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that is a valid point captain rossco

but all these cadets have nothing to compare it too.its there first job.also they all seem quite young so i reckon their expectations are similiarly low.thirdly after spending 35k on a tr and being told on PPRuNe countless times that its a bad idea it would involve a serious loss of face.it would take a brave man/woman to say i cocked it all up against all the advice.

but there is a valid point in what you say
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 19:00
  #251 (permalink)  
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It doesn't need a disgruntled ex-employee to call Ryanair the employer of last resort. Most commercial pilots would call them a cancer.

I do.

WWW


International Transport Workers' Federation: Ryanair lose another round in court action against pilots

July 2006
Trade union wins yet another court case

In Ireland, the Irish Times has recently reported that “a High Court Judge has rejected claims by Ryanair that its pilots or their unions had engaged in bullying, intimidation or isolation of other pilots over conditions imposed by Ryanair related to training on new aircraft. “The only evidence of bullying was by Ryanair itself”, Mr Justice Thomas Smyth stated. He described as “most onerous and bordering on oppression” a condition requiring pilots to pay Ryanair 15,000 Euros for training on new aircraft in 2004. The 15,000 Euros was payable by pilots if they left the company within five years or if Ryanair was required to engage in collective bargaining within the same period.

The airline has also been ordered to pay court cost exceeding 1,000,000 Euros to the British and the Irish pilots’ union, following the ruling at the Dublin High Court, as they lost the case.

In addition the Judge also rejected as “baseless and false” the evidence of Ryanair director of personnel Eddie Wilson in relation to setting up the investigation and considered the evidence of Warwick Brady who was formerly with Ryanair in Stansted in 2004 to have given false evidence”
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 20:45
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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The term 'shite' is quite a broad term and is a rather subjective one too. What is your assessment of shite CR? You may not be making your combing as fine as you think.

And tooth combing the archives? If I had posted doing that I'd be told to get a girlfriend/ get a life/ get a job/ I have too much time on my hands. Then again I am not 'in' with the pay-to-fly-brigade.


Most commercial pilots would call them a cancer.
Yup.

Get a girlfriend CR.
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 20:48
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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FWIW - IMHO, CR is the antithesis of the 'geek' and from what I recall, his GF is a fine specimen (hope he doesn't mind me saying )
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 20:52
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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It's not worth a dime mate. Completely irrelevant.
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Old 27th Oct 2009, 23:05
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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A loyal team mate as usual HollingworthP, my thanks!

Chaps do i sit at the Prune "combing" for evidence to add weight to my stance? Not really. Am I genuinely interested in whats going on
in the world [of aviation], for sure.
I read The Welshman's comments, The Beaks arguements (for and against) and with every point made, I investigate. Why? Because there is rarely smoke without fire, yet there will always be speculative roars from the back benches.

The Beak, would you like to elaborate as to your exact situation, you're incredibly well informed about almost everything, its really quite something.

Get a girlfriend etc........?????? That's a little bit personal.
We should have a PPRuNe catch up, I think comments like that are best saved for face to face meetings, but you wouldn't, because this is your battlefield, one of led backlit screens and where ammunition is measured in Megabytes.

Do you listen to whats being said to you or do you just skim through it? I'm all ears. The RYR Good, the RYR Bad and the RYR Ugly.

Enjoy your week troops.

Last edited by captain_rossco; 27th Oct 2009 at 23:21.
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Old 28th Oct 2009, 06:35
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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because this is your battlefield, one of led backlit screens and where ammunition is measured in Megabytes.
That's a bit presumptious.

I think comments like that are best saved for face to face meetings
I agree.

You seem fair in your response. The girlfriend comment was just a little joke for you on te back of countless comments I receive, so no need to get uptight.

I thoroughly read peoples responses and take them apart if they are drivel and offer support if they are good.

CR, if you are really interested and wish to PM me, I'll elaborate for you but I am not broadcasting my bit-by-bit private life and work life here on PPRuNe. Feel free.
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Old 28th Oct 2009, 10:37
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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Just in case anyone missed this gem on another forum...it is worth reading;

A friend of mine told me about a dinner he went to where there was an advisor in economics to the "brightly coloured" airline board, (a social accident - he did not know him before or fix it up, his friends he went with did). He told me that this guy was fascinating. His contempt for pilots knew no bounds and he expounded gleefully on the summer-only contracts he forsaw and the increasing contractorisation of piloting overall, where contractors bid for the work the brand generated and the lowest cost base won. He looked whistfully at Eastern Europe as a great source of cheap pilots and said supply easily exceeded demand for the forseeable future. His view was that flying an airliner was a slightly more sophisticated train driver style job and said, bluntly, that some train drivers now earned more than pilots, which was as it should be in his view, especially for FO's who he viewed as a legal requirement but otherwise woefully overpaid for their contribution. This, he predicted would change rapidly and so, it seems, is the case at the brightly coloured airline, as elsewhere.

He admitted, apparently, that airlines were a pretty cosy club through the various trade bodies they belong to and that they all got together to discuss areas of mutual interest like overhead - particularly staff costs. The oil price makes an airline a price taker but salaries are where they can be a price maker, he said, and that they were all determined to drive the status and salaries of piloting through the floor. It was, he felt, a ridiclous "career" to enter as the specialisation was so narrow and the industry itself so vulnerable to external shocks that it was virtually to condemn oneself to a job where opportunities were increasingly limited and salaries shrinking in real terms every year and with little chance to move outside it at a corporate level unless to manage within it, where the focus would inevitably be on who could deliver the cheapest cost base given the total commoditisation of the industry product. That meant being the best at screwing down the earnings of your own peer group. He felt that this was all fair game and that the market was so easy to rig against pilots come any sign of a downturn in the economy that becoming one was the height of folly, but that, never-the-less, plenty of people kept applying so there was little need to adjust the career to attract the best, they would take what they got. Safety cut little ice because, as he put it, "you lot all want to get home to your families at the end of your overpaid day, so the passengers will be fine too."
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Old 29th Oct 2009, 10:21
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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G-AWZK,

A most valuable insight into the commercial doctrine behind these collective schemes. Thank you.

The thread silence is deafening; I hope, and expect, all the potential participants are reviewing their options.

I have often aired a concern that BRK do not offer a minimum guaranteed hours per month. Surely if the contract had any integrity this would be included in their terms. Without this an infinite number of BRK cadets can be recruited, 'milked', and then offered ever diminishing hours as more eager punters arrive.

It is easy to understand the accountants glee, I'd be chuffed too! Prospective workers willing to do anything to achieve eventual employment. ( Even pay to work initially - FR aside ). The job really isn't that great.

I can still see why FR appeals to the many. Frankly I can even understand those 'paying to fly'; what is the remaining option other than impressing their 'laughing mates' with their useless 'Blue Books'. Rather like the losing gambler at the roulette table, if you keep spending it might come good? An immediate return, post training, to a non flying employment will doubtless attract the 'scoff' of 'friends of the family'. It is very British to take pleasure in others struggle, and that has got do hurt when huge sums of money have been 'spunked' on a impossible dream?

Spend more money and this social indignity can be swerved behind the mirage of 'gold bars' and 'white shirts'! Speaking of which, best I go and iron mine!
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Old 29th Oct 2009, 12:53
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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thebeak - in reply to your PM, I was hardly being arrogant? I have read your post history and in my opinion you are nothing more than a Walter Mitty.

All you do is post rubbish. Did you join the AAC? Did you attend OAA or Cabair? Did you start your CPL/IR? Have you received your FATPL? Have you applied to an airline? Have you applied to Ryanair? Have you attempted to find a way of funding a type-rating?

I would say no. My point being, I find it odd when someone with no knowledge or experience of professional aviation sticks his beak in.
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Old 29th Oct 2009, 18:51
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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It is certainly very worrying that they seem to be recruiting so heavily over this winter, considering all courses after november were axed initially.

So possibly all pilots are FR are going to see their hours being diluted right down, as their hours are directly proportional to their salaries then these are also going to plummit.

However there has been the odd rumours about an order of around 200 new a/c's this autumn. Possibly just some free marketing for MOL (again), also seems that they havnt ruled out airbus either.

I think the one thing for certain is that FR is here to stay and whatever anyone says it is by far the most stable airline out there for pilots. Whether those pilots will actually be earning any money in a few years time is another thing
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