ETOPS/Wizz Air A320 FO program
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ETOPS/Wizz Air A320 FO program
Hello all,
I am wondering if there is someone here familiar with the ETOPS program for the A320 with Wizz Air.
It's a SSTR with eventually a placement at Wizz for two years. 50k euro's and training at Toulouse.
I am looking for people that actually followed this program, or are able to tell me more from experiences, before I think about this HUGE investment.
(I don't like to start the discussion about self-sponsorship, or all the companies who pay the training for you. Just about this program only!)
I am wondering if there is someone here familiar with the ETOPS program for the A320 with Wizz Air.
It's a SSTR with eventually a placement at Wizz for two years. 50k euro's and training at Toulouse.
I am looking for people that actually followed this program, or are able to tell me more from experiences, before I think about this HUGE investment.
(I don't like to start the discussion about self-sponsorship, or all the companies who pay the training for you. Just about this program only!)
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Just be very careful! If You have draft contract on hand, please read through it and check following items:
Item 4.3. (Delivery of the Type Rating Course) This item stipulates that by entering into this Agreement, You would accept all Your liabilities to TRTO organization.
Item 6.4. (Early termination of Placement Phase).
Item 18. (Governing Law and Jurisdiction).
“The court in Hong Kong….. in and inconvenient forum” this is increasing the uncertainty of legal status for this Agreement and involved obligations by both parties.
May be everything will be O'K with this training pack(if You have free 50k EUR), but some of this uncertain items helped to me for to make decison refuse offered training. (It seems to be very well planed business plan-not flight training).
Currently I have offer from another airline, and I will start TR and company conversion training(sponsored by company for which I will work) just after 16 days. (Without uncertain agreements and etc.)
Item 4.3. (Delivery of the Type Rating Course) This item stipulates that by entering into this Agreement, You would accept all Your liabilities to TRTO organization.
Item 6.4. (Early termination of Placement Phase).
Item 18. (Governing Law and Jurisdiction).
“The court in Hong Kong….. in and inconvenient forum” this is increasing the uncertainty of legal status for this Agreement and involved obligations by both parties.
May be everything will be O'K with this training pack(if You have free 50k EUR), but some of this uncertain items helped to me for to make decison refuse offered training. (It seems to be very well planed business plan-not flight training).
Currently I have offer from another airline, and I will start TR and company conversion training(sponsored by company for which I will work) just after 16 days. (Without uncertain agreements and etc.)
Last edited by RIX BT; 30th Aug 2009 at 09:29.
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Roll up, roll up! Spineless dickheads all come here! Buy a 'job' from Wizz air for 50,000 euros. Roll up! Roll up!
If any one even so much as thinks about signing up for this scam then the following words are an appropriate description of you:
useless,
brainless,
spasticated,
in need of a severe kicking,
PRICK!
Mods, I am sorry for my langauage in this post howver I feel that given the utter repulsion I feel towards this thread and the disgraceful individuals who would consider fattening Wizz Air's coffers my language is appropriate.
If any one even so much as thinks about signing up for this scam then the following words are an appropriate description of you:
useless,
brainless,
spasticated,
in need of a severe kicking,
PRICK!
Mods, I am sorry for my langauage in this post howver I feel that given the utter repulsion I feel towards this thread and the disgraceful individuals who would consider fattening Wizz Air's coffers my language is appropriate.
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Well I only posted that I wanted more info, because , they are recruiting from CAE as well, and the prices shown there are slightly different, from those shown here.
Seems to me that they just found a way of increasing the income of cash to the company, in this times of crisis
Seems to me that they just found a way of increasing the income of cash to the company, in this times of crisis
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Why would you sign up to this when there are established proven programs around, not eaglejet, but others with good success rates for hiring at the end. Wizz will probably be getting a few free type ratings thrown in with each hull, agreed they have atraining risk but 50K! come on guys where is this ending? You are right to be mindful of contracts in asia, they are having huge problems with legality issues of this type of work and the agreement of local authorities to issue work visas etc. Beware
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Well if you go to the CAE Pilot web page, youll see that the cost of the TR is 29000Euro, so I would like to know how they come up with a 50K figure.
About the visas thats a really important issue. A friend of mine, was selected by CAE for AirAsia,did the TR in the A320, and didnt get the visa at the end, so TR and no job.
About the visas thats a really important issue. A friend of mine, was selected by CAE for AirAsia,did the TR in the A320, and didnt get the visa at the end, so TR and no job.
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NG,
Your friend must be an idiot...
Anybody with half a brain and a bit of research knows that foreign pilots are NOT welcome in places like Thailand or Malaysia, as they have enough of their own low hour CPL holders.
The country will simply refuse to give you a work permit.
This is what happens to people that try to cut corners and pay their way into industry, so I have to say... Good for him.
Your friend must be an idiot...
Anybody with half a brain and a bit of research knows that foreign pilots are NOT welcome in places like Thailand or Malaysia, as they have enough of their own low hour CPL holders.
The country will simply refuse to give you a work permit.
This is what happens to people that try to cut corners and pay their way into industry, so I have to say... Good for him.
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Well if you go to the CAE Pilot web page, youll see that the cost of the TR is 29000Euro, so I would like to know how they come up with a 50K figure.
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I was looking for experiences. Not people telling anyone how dumb you are if you pay for a TR. (I already know it's stupid, but it's the way things go these days.)
Everyday more companies are offering SSTR instead of paying everything for you. (20 years back they paid also ATPL etc, and you were hired first!)
Everyday more companies are offering SSTR instead of paying everything for you. (20 years back they paid also ATPL etc, and you were hired first!)
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Yes, but ur not just paying for the type rating here are you? If the tr is say 29000 euro, then ur paying another 20,000 euro for the privelidge of flying for wizz air for two years.
So basically this is a pay to work scheme for all those dreamers out there who think they can buy their way into their "dream" of flying an a320. Why don't you all just piss off. YOU ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL PILOTS.
So basically this is a pay to work scheme for all those dreamers out there who think they can buy their way into their "dream" of flying an a320. Why don't you all just piss off. YOU ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL PILOTS.
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If you can point me, and all other beginning pilots a job in this world where you don't have to pay you own TR, and is also hiring within now and let's say 2 years: Please sent me a message.
Don't forget interest is due every month, and the changes are zero for the last 9 months.
And come on, how many companies are there left who don't want you to pay for yourself?
I must agree with you that I hate the way this goes.
But all thanks for the advice. It made me think and I decided to wait untill things are getting better. (I am starting at the FI course now instead of a SSTR, to improve and keep up the flying.)
Don't forget interest is due every month, and the changes are zero for the last 9 months.
And come on, how many companies are there left who don't want you to pay for yourself?
I must agree with you that I hate the way this goes.
But all thanks for the advice. It made me think and I decided to wait untill things are getting better. (I am starting at the FI course now instead of a SSTR, to improve and keep up the flying.)
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I'm actually wondering why users like Aussie John don't get banned?
Just by browsing through his posts, you'll find that this guy never has anything positive to add, is highly sarcastic and ruins any good conversational atmosphere that there might be.
I've noticed quite a few of the same kind of posters and seriously wonder why Pprune allows this?
Just by browsing through his posts, you'll find that this guy never has anything positive to add, is highly sarcastic and ruins any good conversational atmosphere that there might be.
I've noticed quite a few of the same kind of posters and seriously wonder why Pprune allows this?
Educated Hillbilly
Well a professional can also view things from both sides with a balanced view. I don't necessarily approve of pay to fly schemes but the biggest thing that has contributed to the propagation of these things is probably the fact that most instructing jobs only pay 15 - 25 pounds an hour flight pay and that most turbo prop jobs have excessive bonds with low salaries.
I have been both a full time insturctor and had a brief time on turboprops. I admit 50,000 Euros is quite excessive compared to other SSTR + Line training schemes, but consider that many people have spent 1 to 2 years of full time instructing followed by 3 to 4 years in a turboprop job (the duration of most training bonds) then in the long run these pay to fly schemes work out the financially more viable option.
Several turboprop companies in the UK have almost doubled the bonds in the last six years, Air Southwest used to bond for 10,000, now the bond is 20,000. Atlantic used to bond 25000 on the Electra, now the bond is 42000. Eastern bond on a load agreement 20,000 over four years. So for some people the decision to fund a rating is based on a sound financial judgement. I took a 70% paycut to work as a full time instructor, I honoustly feel that working another year and raising the cash for a pay to fly schemes would have been more benefit to my flying careeer (irrespective of how immoral this is).
JAA removing the 700 hour requirement for CPL issue on the self improver route is also another reason SSTR + Line training schemes have become popular.
I don't expect pay to improve for instructors, the GA scene could not support this, however I do believe that if more turboprop companies offered more reasonable bonds and better pay then the SSTR route would seem less attractive.
What alot of you also forget that this is also a side product of self funded pilot training as a whole; if you consider the countries where full sponsorship still exists, then in these countries commercial flying is the preserve of a few lucky graduates under the age of 26 and the ex-military; if that were case then many pilots on this forum would not be flying.
I have been both a full time insturctor and had a brief time on turboprops. I admit 50,000 Euros is quite excessive compared to other SSTR + Line training schemes, but consider that many people have spent 1 to 2 years of full time instructing followed by 3 to 4 years in a turboprop job (the duration of most training bonds) then in the long run these pay to fly schemes work out the financially more viable option.
Several turboprop companies in the UK have almost doubled the bonds in the last six years, Air Southwest used to bond for 10,000, now the bond is 20,000. Atlantic used to bond 25000 on the Electra, now the bond is 42000. Eastern bond on a load agreement 20,000 over four years. So for some people the decision to fund a rating is based on a sound financial judgement. I took a 70% paycut to work as a full time instructor, I honoustly feel that working another year and raising the cash for a pay to fly schemes would have been more benefit to my flying careeer (irrespective of how immoral this is).
JAA removing the 700 hour requirement for CPL issue on the self improver route is also another reason SSTR + Line training schemes have become popular.
I don't expect pay to improve for instructors, the GA scene could not support this, however I do believe that if more turboprop companies offered more reasonable bonds and better pay then the SSTR route would seem less attractive.
What alot of you also forget that this is also a side product of self funded pilot training as a whole; if you consider the countries where full sponsorship still exists, then in these countries commercial flying is the preserve of a few lucky graduates under the age of 26 and the ex-military; if that were case then many pilots on this forum would not be flying.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 4th Sep 2009 at 22:05.
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Most airlines nowadays whether a LCC or a major they either bond you for a number of years with a prorata clause in your contract of employment or they will take it out from your pay as salary sacrifice for the full or discounted TR. The way I see it the core of it all is pretty much you pay for the TR.
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Hmmmmm I don't know much about this scheme/scam but it sounds an awful lot like paying Wizz Air 50k to work.......ummmmm I know that things in the airline industry have gone significantly down hill, especially when it comes to T's & C's, but come on please not another airline charging pilot's to fly its revenue generating passengers!!!!
The above poster is very correct in saying that these schemes can greatly help to advance your career however as a CPL holder currently working as a baggage handler I'm slightly bitter when it comes to handing over yet more money to fly.....I'm at the point where having spent so much money on training, I kind of think I should be PAID to work rather than PAY to work. Why oh why isn't there regulation by JAA/EASA on how SOME airlines are treating pilot's. Bonding new pilot's for TR's is one thing but getting them to pay for a TR and then telling them to sod off after a short while is disgraceful.
I very much hope that this comes back to bite these companies in the arse when things turn around again.
And on that happy note, it 17.30 on a Friday afternoon and there's only one thing for it.......BEER TIME!!!! Have a good one folks.
2W2R
The above poster is very correct in saying that these schemes can greatly help to advance your career however as a CPL holder currently working as a baggage handler I'm slightly bitter when it comes to handing over yet more money to fly.....I'm at the point where having spent so much money on training, I kind of think I should be PAID to work rather than PAY to work. Why oh why isn't there regulation by JAA/EASA on how SOME airlines are treating pilot's. Bonding new pilot's for TR's is one thing but getting them to pay for a TR and then telling them to sod off after a short while is disgraceful.
I very much hope that this comes back to bite these companies in the arse when things turn around again.
And on that happy note, it 17.30 on a Friday afternoon and there's only one thing for it.......BEER TIME!!!! Have a good one folks.
2W2R
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wizzair f/o NTR
never heard wizzair ask for 50k...actualy for not type rated they ask 15000 for type( taken monthly from salary) and a bond of 3 years for the rest 15000.....