Advice after finishing training - what do I do next (Merged)
Join Date: May 2007
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was contemplating posting a new topic, but I think I'll just join the crowd here and post my situation / questions.
I started training in August 2007, when people were leaving and getting jobs with as few hours as 200, it all seemed so nice and sparkly, but alas, it was the top of the proverbial roller-coaster, and it all came crashing down.
At the moment I'm working as a flight instructor in Florida, and I've also seen what the times have done to the outflow and influx where I work.
There has basically been no outflow of instructors at all in our school for the last 1.5 years or so, all the senior instructors have stayed put, because there is no where else to go. No matter if one has ATP and 2000 hours.
The students keep on coming, though in a diminished rate, but what I see now, is something that kind of looks like a slow change in the trend. Maybe we have reached the low part of this roller-coaster, and we're ever so slowly changing the vertical speed?
In the last few months many of the senior instructors have been at interviews, and just lately several of them has left school to go work with corporate, freight and even regional airlines.
Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel? I'm no Nostradamus, so I won't preach the second coming, but still, as I'm stuck here, I can at least save a glimmer of hope
Now, onto myself. I'm preparing to leave Florida, and return home to Northern Europe. I'll be leaving with a FAA CPL-Single/Multi/IR, CFI-Single/Multi/IR, and about 800 hours, of them about only 70 hours multi.
In October/November, I reckon I will have my JAA CPL/ME/IR + Frozen ATPL + MCC.
I'm not tied down anywhere, so I'm willing to go to anyone who is willing to offer me a job flying anything with two wings and 1+ engines anywhere in the world.
What I'm not willing to do is pay someone to kill the profession AKA Ryanair or the likes.
I Understand that SSTR is starting to become more of the trend, but I wont sell my soul to pay for line training or any other idiocy like that (I will pay for a type rating if there's a genuine GOOD job offer at the end of the rope though).
Thankfully I have made some friends working over here, with some students seeded around in places like Korea, Nigeria etc, I'm hoping that little Network will pay me back, and I can work anywhere as long as its not extremely hazardous.
Am I in for a long wait as well, or what are your guys' expert opinion?
I started training in August 2007, when people were leaving and getting jobs with as few hours as 200, it all seemed so nice and sparkly, but alas, it was the top of the proverbial roller-coaster, and it all came crashing down.
At the moment I'm working as a flight instructor in Florida, and I've also seen what the times have done to the outflow and influx where I work.
There has basically been no outflow of instructors at all in our school for the last 1.5 years or so, all the senior instructors have stayed put, because there is no where else to go. No matter if one has ATP and 2000 hours.
The students keep on coming, though in a diminished rate, but what I see now, is something that kind of looks like a slow change in the trend. Maybe we have reached the low part of this roller-coaster, and we're ever so slowly changing the vertical speed?
In the last few months many of the senior instructors have been at interviews, and just lately several of them has left school to go work with corporate, freight and even regional airlines.
Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel? I'm no Nostradamus, so I won't preach the second coming, but still, as I'm stuck here, I can at least save a glimmer of hope
Now, onto myself. I'm preparing to leave Florida, and return home to Northern Europe. I'll be leaving with a FAA CPL-Single/Multi/IR, CFI-Single/Multi/IR, and about 800 hours, of them about only 70 hours multi.
In October/November, I reckon I will have my JAA CPL/ME/IR + Frozen ATPL + MCC.
I'm not tied down anywhere, so I'm willing to go to anyone who is willing to offer me a job flying anything with two wings and 1+ engines anywhere in the world.
What I'm not willing to do is pay someone to kill the profession AKA Ryanair or the likes.
I Understand that SSTR is starting to become more of the trend, but I wont sell my soul to pay for line training or any other idiocy like that (I will pay for a type rating if there's a genuine GOOD job offer at the end of the rope though).
Thankfully I have made some friends working over here, with some students seeded around in places like Korea, Nigeria etc, I'm hoping that little Network will pay me back, and I can work anywhere as long as its not extremely hazardous.
Am I in for a long wait as well, or what are your guys' expert opinion?
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Did you read my post?
Where did it say I was gonna try fighting for a job in Norway?
To be honest, in the beginning I don't care if I work in Africa, Asia or anywhere in Europe when I start out.
Sure, I would want a job closer to home eventually, but I understand that the current market is total crap, and I don't have any illusions about getting my first "real" job in Northern Europe
Where did it say I was gonna try fighting for a job in Norway?
To be honest, in the beginning I don't care if I work in Africa, Asia or anywhere in Europe when I start out.
Sure, I would want a job closer to home eventually, but I understand that the current market is total crap, and I don't have any illusions about getting my first "real" job in Northern Europe
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Photon85,
It's very good that you want to avoid SSTR because of the principle of it, but can you really afford to eliminate a job at a company such as ryanair completely? They are in many peoples' eyes the main source of airline jobs. Fair enough if you can't afford it but if you can shouldn't you at least consider it? I am not having a go, just curious...
Its good that you are willing to work anywhere in the world and as long as you have the right contacts it should work out eventually. I am just a wannabe so don't trust my advice, just wanted to stick my nose in.
It's very good that you want to avoid SSTR because of the principle of it, but can you really afford to eliminate a job at a company such as ryanair completely? They are in many peoples' eyes the main source of airline jobs. Fair enough if you can't afford it but if you can shouldn't you at least consider it? I am not having a go, just curious...
Its good that you are willing to work anywhere in the world and as long as you have the right contacts it should work out eventually. I am just a wannabe so don't trust my advice, just wanted to stick my nose in.
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I totally agree with Photon85. Will not take out one more penny to fly. Not as long as the market will offer something with a little more dignity than a contract for the summertime, or few months more, sending you at home after that.
Thing is that the aviation market is dead and the job of pilot as well. Things will get worse with time and with the increasing number of freaks who will pay to fly. This is becoming a caste and rumors that the market wil pick up again in my opinion is driven by administrations and lobbies with all the interest to get our money out of the wallet. Let's keep flying guys, but do not expect to get paid for it.
Thing is that the aviation market is dead and the job of pilot as well. Things will get worse with time and with the increasing number of freaks who will pay to fly. This is becoming a caste and rumors that the market wil pick up again in my opinion is driven by administrations and lobbies with all the interest to get our money out of the wallet. Let's keep flying guys, but do not expect to get paid for it.
Join Date: May 2006
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Some people are being very sensible here and giving good advice to someone who, like me, is very worried about their prospects post-training.
I too my time and thought ahead enough to get tagged through training, unfortunately like so many, that tag has diminished from a "we have a record of taking on 100% of our tagged students" into "we can't afford to take anyone on" and so, I'm in the same spot as many.
Networking, getting your name out there and keeping on slogging it seems to be the only hope we ab-initio ~200 hours lot have. There are jobs out there, and people are getting employed, though it's in teeny tiny dribbles.
Good advice is not 'you're screwed, pay for Ryanair or GTFO', that's unhelpful. I doubt there's a single pilot fresh out of training that isn't aware of the Ranair route. I for one can't go that route. I can just about save myself from bankrupcy at the moment but if I fork out another £30k for a maybe-job, if I don't get it I'm definately going under. Like so many, this means the security on the loan will be repossessed, and currently that would be my Father's house.
Risks are not an option.
Sure if you can afford to go the Ryanair route then worst case is you'll have more hours and a rating. For those of us who can't afford to make that leap on a chance any and all advice is welcome. Any and all avenues are chased down, all contacts possible are made and kept.
At the end of the day, someone needs pilots somewhere and whereas it might be completely different from what you wanted or expected, it'll be something.
The only advice I can give to all my fellows in my situation is: Keep slogging it, don't loose heart and it'll come about somehow, someday.
I too my time and thought ahead enough to get tagged through training, unfortunately like so many, that tag has diminished from a "we have a record of taking on 100% of our tagged students" into "we can't afford to take anyone on" and so, I'm in the same spot as many.
Networking, getting your name out there and keeping on slogging it seems to be the only hope we ab-initio ~200 hours lot have. There are jobs out there, and people are getting employed, though it's in teeny tiny dribbles.
Good advice is not 'you're screwed, pay for Ryanair or GTFO', that's unhelpful. I doubt there's a single pilot fresh out of training that isn't aware of the Ranair route. I for one can't go that route. I can just about save myself from bankrupcy at the moment but if I fork out another £30k for a maybe-job, if I don't get it I'm definately going under. Like so many, this means the security on the loan will be repossessed, and currently that would be my Father's house.
Risks are not an option.
Sure if you can afford to go the Ryanair route then worst case is you'll have more hours and a rating. For those of us who can't afford to make that leap on a chance any and all advice is welcome. Any and all avenues are chased down, all contacts possible are made and kept.
At the end of the day, someone needs pilots somewhere and whereas it might be completely different from what you wanted or expected, it'll be something.
The only advice I can give to all my fellows in my situation is: Keep slogging it, don't loose heart and it'll come about somehow, someday.
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Im currently part way through my training, hour building and ATPL theory complete. Was all ready to commence the rest of my training but have decided to put it on hold for a while, simply because the prospect of a job at the end of it is next to nothing.
Waiting to hear back from a couple of sponsorship opportunities, but I am definitely not hold my breath with regards to those. I am looking for any job at the moment just to earn myself as much cash as I can get. If I havn't heard anything from said sponsorships by the end of this year I will fund myself through the rest of the training and then apply for the GAPAN flight instructor sponsorship, and if I was lucky enough to get that, hopefully find some work that way.
As has been mentioned, things have got to pick up at some point. Personally, I won't be paying the likes of Ryanair for a TR!
Waiting to hear back from a couple of sponsorship opportunities, but I am definitely not hold my breath with regards to those. I am looking for any job at the moment just to earn myself as much cash as I can get. If I havn't heard anything from said sponsorships by the end of this year I will fund myself through the rest of the training and then apply for the GAPAN flight instructor sponsorship, and if I was lucky enough to get that, hopefully find some work that way.
As has been mentioned, things have got to pick up at some point. Personally, I won't be paying the likes of Ryanair for a TR!
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When I finished training 3 years ago I managed to got some part-time single pilot work and went back to my proper job.
Applied to Ryanair and never heard anything too . Had friends who joined and get paid well, one also mentioned the tax side and getting some of the TR costs back. If I ever had the chance I would have gone to the interview to find out more.
Looked at CTC ATP / Flexicrew schemes.Decided they were a bad idea due to hold pools, 6 month contracts and kept the money in the bank. I am sure they are better when things are going well but no point spending money.
Hopefully next few years it will pick up again
Applied to Ryanair and never heard anything too . Had friends who joined and get paid well, one also mentioned the tax side and getting some of the TR costs back. If I ever had the chance I would have gone to the interview to find out more.
Looked at CTC ATP / Flexicrew schemes.Decided they were a bad idea due to hold pools, 6 month contracts and kept the money in the bank. I am sure they are better when things are going well but no point spending money.
Hopefully next few years it will pick up again
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Community Sponsorship?
In regards to Ryanair it's just the sheer price of it.
I mean, they want 27500 euros for the training, and all other expenses on top of that again, probably making it like 28-29 000 when you're all done.
I mean, they want 27500 euros for the training, and all other expenses on top of that again, probably making it like 28-29 000 when you're all done.
A Danish friend of mine used the Danish Unemployment office to fund his first typerating...
This would only work if you are guaranteed a job once the rating has been purchased.
Let society help put you in the drivers' seat! They are the ones currently profiting the most of our situation...
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Is there any good news?!
I have wanted to become an airline pilot for over a decade and after working hard to achieve a good education the methods of getting into the profession are disgraceful! That being said the thought of working in an office or trade for the rest of my time isn't appealing either.
I have seen some good advice on this thread, there are so many rumours going around about the big FTO's i was wondering if there are any cadets that have graduated that have any advice.
Has anyone come out of CTC, FTE or OAA with a job offer that doesn't require a self sponsored type rating?
Putting up another £15-20,000 towards a Ryan air type rating would be out of my reach and I would not consider training if that was the only route.
Even the CTC wings cadet scheme that start with Easy jet, they pay around £8,000 towards the type rating and then the rest comes out of their earnings. Are you still able to pay off your loan, (650p/m) while working for Easy? Or working for Flexicrew?
Any advice is useful.
I hear that international traffic volumes are returning quite quickly and that the large carriers are taking on a number of pilots next year, which should free up some space for low hour FO's.
Good luck, Stay strong!!
I have seen some good advice on this thread, there are so many rumours going around about the big FTO's i was wondering if there are any cadets that have graduated that have any advice.
Has anyone come out of CTC, FTE or OAA with a job offer that doesn't require a self sponsored type rating?
Putting up another £15-20,000 towards a Ryan air type rating would be out of my reach and I would not consider training if that was the only route.
Even the CTC wings cadet scheme that start with Easy jet, they pay around £8,000 towards the type rating and then the rest comes out of their earnings. Are you still able to pay off your loan, (650p/m) while working for Easy? Or working for Flexicrew?
Any advice is useful.
I hear that international traffic volumes are returning quite quickly and that the large carriers are taking on a number of pilots next year, which should free up some space for low hour FO's.
Good luck, Stay strong!!
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CTC bonding arrangement and TR
Hi Guys/Gals,
With regards to the CTC Wings scheme, does anyone know how much candidates need to pay towards the type ratings these days?
Also the bonding arrangement at CTC wings is such that if you join a participating airline your bond is drip fed back into your salary over a number of years. Does anyone know which CTC partner airlines undertake this arrangment?
With regards to the CTC Wings scheme, does anyone know how much candidates need to pay towards the type ratings these days?
Also the bonding arrangement at CTC wings is such that if you join a participating airline your bond is drip fed back into your salary over a number of years. Does anyone know which CTC partner airlines undertake this arrangment?
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what to do after CPL/MEIR Frozen ATPL ?
I just finished my Integrated JAA frozen ATPL course, which includes CPL license, Multi engine instument rating and MCC course. Total 160 flying hours. what's next ? what do I have to do now to get a job at an airline company ?... I don't want to join the rest of the list of people sitting at home sending CV's to airlines hoping they could get some answer although already knowing that they will never get anything.
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You absolutely have to pay yourself a type rating and a minimum of 500 hours of line training, although I would recommend 1000 - just to be sure. Don't care about those who tell you to write CVs or meet people, connected into aviation - just pay for rating and line training and you're in - simple as that.
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Thank you for your time FlyingStone. Do you think it is a safe option to choose that ?... I already looked around for that type of schemes and I even contacted Pegasus Airlines, but they say that there won't be any course starting untill the end of this year, and I also heard that eagle jet was having some problems trying to arrange airlines for their students to do the line training phase. Do you know some other company which can give some guaranties relating to how much would I fly per month, or any other safe company to enroll for a type rating and line training ?. Best Regards
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Q) what do I do next
Month 1 after ME/IR "cant wait to start using this blue licence"
Month 3 after ME/IR
"Im sure an airline will phone soon"
Month 6 after ME/IR
"Why hasnt anyone responded"
Month 6 plus 1 day after ME/IR
£1200 a month loan repayment....S**T
Month 9 after ME/IR
"How much for a Ryanair Type Rating"
Month 11 after ME/IR "Flybe Called"
Month 11 plus 1 day after ME/IR Flybe wont hire me because i dont have 50 hours in the last 12 months!
Month 12 after ME/IR
ME/IR has Expired 
£1500 to renew ME/IR
Month 13 after ME/IR
"What the hell was i thinking becoming a pilot!"
Month 1 after ME/IR
"cant wait to start using this blue licence"Month 3 after ME/IR
"Im sure an airline will phone soon"Month 6 after ME/IR
"Why hasnt anyone responded"Month 6 plus 1 day after ME/IR
£1200 a month loan repayment....S**T Month 9 after ME/IR
"How much for a Ryanair Type Rating"Month 11 after ME/IR
"Flybe Called"Month 11 plus 1 day after ME/IR
Flybe wont hire me because i dont have 50 hours in the last 12 months!Month 12 after ME/IR
ME/IR has Expired £1500 to renew ME/IRMonth 13 after ME/IR
"What the hell was i thinking becoming a pilot!"
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Excellent, at least you got a call from flybe! how did you manage that? ohh to be in the position to get called by an airline.
2 years and still hoping, building hrs ok instructing and air charter light twin, but around other work, as flying doesnt pay the bills.
2 years and still hoping, building hrs ok instructing and air charter light twin, but around other work, as flying doesnt pay the bills.