First Job - First Base?
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First Job - First Base?
I'm lucky enough to live in the Midlands and have MAN, LGW, LHR and obviously BHX all within a couple of hours drive away.
How did people get on with their first jobs in terms of bases? Do you accept a job offer and then are delegated a base, or do you apply knowing which base the job is going to be at?
Although LGW, LHR etc are only a couple of hours drive away but I could imagine this could get rather tiresome 4/5 days a week!
If anyone could shed any light on this and/or typical rosters for a new F/O I would be very appreciable!
How did people get on with their first jobs in terms of bases? Do you accept a job offer and then are delegated a base, or do you apply knowing which base the job is going to be at?
Although LGW, LHR etc are only a couple of hours drive away but I could imagine this could get rather tiresome 4/5 days a week!
If anyone could shed any light on this and/or typical rosters for a new F/O I would be very appreciable!
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the contract will usually specify the intended type and base. I have highlighted and underscored intended, because that word should be given much credence. Any contract of employment is offered on the basis that it suits the seller. It will be a condition of employment that you establish a contact address within a particular radius of your assigned base at your own expense. This will often be either 60 or 90 minutes at normal travelling time.
You do not have to set up home at this address. In many cases people will rent a room or share a house or rent accomodation or stay with a local friend or relative in order to satisfy the requirement. The employer will however expect you to be able to report for work and be available on standby from the time established by this address at all material times.
Another point to bear in mind is that work from a particular base may be fluid or seasonal. There may well arise a requirement to change your base (or fleet) as the employers requirments change from time to time. This situation will often arise when the time comes for promotion. Vacancies may only exist at another base and the offer may be conditional on your agreeing to change base. Once established in employment there are often payments available to help offset the costs of such moves, and in some cases there may be tax relief available to offset some of the cost that the employer will not meet. However much of this depends on the terms and conditions you have contracted to.
Naturally as with any contract, you don't have to accept it. However in these circumstances you would be a very confident person to turn down a solid offer. On the other hand if it is going to make you unhappy then there is little point in accepting. Airline flying is an occupation with a global reach that may necessitate you being based in any part of the country. Over a period of time opportunities will arise that enable you to change base, but anybody embarking on this career needs to understand and accept the concept.
I cannot help you with the rosters, since it would very much depend on the airline and the nature of their primary business. Suffice to say you would either be very busy either flying or covering standby's 5 irregular days of the week, or you would be away in hotels a lot.
You do not have to set up home at this address. In many cases people will rent a room or share a house or rent accomodation or stay with a local friend or relative in order to satisfy the requirement. The employer will however expect you to be able to report for work and be available on standby from the time established by this address at all material times.
Another point to bear in mind is that work from a particular base may be fluid or seasonal. There may well arise a requirement to change your base (or fleet) as the employers requirments change from time to time. This situation will often arise when the time comes for promotion. Vacancies may only exist at another base and the offer may be conditional on your agreeing to change base. Once established in employment there are often payments available to help offset the costs of such moves, and in some cases there may be tax relief available to offset some of the cost that the employer will not meet. However much of this depends on the terms and conditions you have contracted to.
Naturally as with any contract, you don't have to accept it. However in these circumstances you would be a very confident person to turn down a solid offer. On the other hand if it is going to make you unhappy then there is little point in accepting. Airline flying is an occupation with a global reach that may necessitate you being based in any part of the country. Over a period of time opportunities will arise that enable you to change base, but anybody embarking on this career needs to understand and accept the concept.
I cannot help you with the rosters, since it would very much depend on the airline and the nature of their primary business. Suffice to say you would either be very busy either flying or covering standby's 5 irregular days of the week, or you would be away in hotels a lot.
Supercharged PPRuNer
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A golden rule of getting into this industry is to never turn down a first job; as long as it's legal, go anywhere, do anything to get commercial experience in your logbook. You would be very fortunate to land a first job that allowed you to live at home, but once you have hours and experience, further opportunities start to open up, and it gets progressively easier to pick and choose a lifestyle and location that suit you.
Regarding 'a couple of hours' to LHR and LGW, have you factored in the M25 effect, or the 30 minutes required to get parked, catch the bus and get through security to the crewroom? Realistically, an hour's commute is as much as most people can manage.
Regarding 'a couple of hours' to LHR and LGW, have you factored in the M25 effect, or the 30 minutes required to get parked, catch the bus and get through security to the crewroom? Realistically, an hour's commute is as much as most people can manage.
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If you get offered something then grab it and don't let go.
Your family will need to understand any implications.
when I first started training for the ATPL, my wife said "I'll go anywhere except Northern Ireland"
After months of no flying job she said "I'll go anywhere but would rather not go to Northern Ireland"
I got my first job and we all spent a very happy 3 years in Northern Ireland.
Following on from GSXTY remarks about travelling time, I live in Southampton and rent a room at Stansted during the week. The room is 1.9miles from the airport. It takes me 25 minutes to get to the crew room from my crash pad. Previous to that I commuted 50 miles each way, round the M25 via Dartford Tunnel. I had to leave an absolute minimum of 1hr30 travelling time to get in, sometimes more. 3 hours travelling on top of a long day is not sustainable in the long term in my opinion.
Your family will need to understand any implications.
when I first started training for the ATPL, my wife said "I'll go anywhere except Northern Ireland"
After months of no flying job she said "I'll go anywhere but would rather not go to Northern Ireland"
I got my first job and we all spent a very happy 3 years in Northern Ireland.
Following on from GSXTY remarks about travelling time, I live in Southampton and rent a room at Stansted during the week. The room is 1.9miles from the airport. It takes me 25 minutes to get to the crew room from my crash pad. Previous to that I commuted 50 miles each way, round the M25 via Dartford Tunnel. I had to leave an absolute minimum of 1hr30 travelling time to get in, sometimes more. 3 hours travelling on top of a long day is not sustainable in the long term in my opinion.
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I'm in total agreement to the posts above, however I'm not a pilot (yet).
Please don't under estimate how tiring a lengthy commute can be on top of a full days work. I have a long commute, approximately a 4hr 20mins round trip per day from the Midlands to London and in my opinion on top of a full days work it is totally unsustainable. You may find that renting a room locally is more affordable than cost of fuel or trains!!
Please don't under estimate how tiring a lengthy commute can be on top of a full days work. I have a long commute, approximately a 4hr 20mins round trip per day from the Midlands to London and in my opinion on top of a full days work it is totally unsustainable. You may find that renting a room locally is more affordable than cost of fuel or trains!!
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Lots of good advice here!
Lots of good advice here..but I'd like to be more blunt!
Forget about London/MCR/LPL bases if you intend to stay in the midlands!
How on earth would you cope if you were called in on a standby day?
M1/M6/M40/M4/M25/M23...choose your nightmare!
Doubtful if your new/potential employer would even consider such an arrangement!!
The step between the ground and the first rung in this business is huge... do everything (honest) you can to get and keep that first commercial job. Keep your head down and remain totally professsional at all times.
Good Luck. bm
Forget about London/MCR/LPL bases if you intend to stay in the midlands!
How on earth would you cope if you were called in on a standby day?
M1/M6/M40/M4/M25/M23...choose your nightmare!
Doubtful if your new/potential employer would even consider such an arrangement!!
The step between the ground and the first rung in this business is huge... do everything (honest) you can to get and keep that first commercial job. Keep your head down and remain totally professsional at all times.
Good Luck. bm
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1st Base
My first job offer was (only!) 400 miles away in the snowy north - took it without a moment's hesitatation and it has been brilliant!
As everyone has said here, just take the job, get in the door, be professional and then you can start being choosy - bidding for other bases and the like as time goes on.
Good luck!
As everyone has said here, just take the job, get in the door, be professional and then you can start being choosy - bidding for other bases and the like as time goes on.
Good luck!
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Usually you apply knowing that you could be posted to any base. So you really have to be prepared for that. If the airline in question has more than one base, it may be possible to have a first choice but it pretty much means nothing during your early stages.
My first base was 5800NM away in Manila. Obviously I knew that and prepared myself for it-including the $1800 pcm salary I had to accept. I grabbed the opportunity with both hands, especially as I knew that my cost of living in Manila would be the equivalent of me earning £100K a year living in London!
I agree once you get that first job, you must never let go of it, especially during the early stages. Within 18 months, I had the possibility of going to Continental Micronesia based in Guam.Luckily I was in a position not to take it.
My first base was 5800NM away in Manila. Obviously I knew that and prepared myself for it-including the $1800 pcm salary I had to accept. I grabbed the opportunity with both hands, especially as I knew that my cost of living in Manila would be the equivalent of me earning £100K a year living in London!
I agree once you get that first job, you must never let go of it, especially during the early stages. Within 18 months, I had the possibility of going to Continental Micronesia based in Guam.Luckily I was in a position not to take it.
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First Job
To be honest mate, you may find yourself going a lot further than England's central belt in order to find that elusive first job. I do feel for anyone who falls into that bracket at the moment. Aviation is a global industry and we all must keep an open mind. An aquaintence of mind recently moved to the Middle East to secure employment after a 5 month abscence from flying. And he is a 737 Captain with nearly 8000 hours total time! 
Be luckey and keep all options open
Be luckey and keep all options open
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Yup, my first airline job was 1300 miles away from 'home' in Malta. I accepted the job, without even being able to pin point Malta on a map at the time 
A few years later I had a job with an English airline at the base of my choice... I think take what you can get in the first years to get the experience. At Monarch we have to be based within 1:30 of the base, with 30 mins to get ready ie total from phone call to report max 2:00. No idea about other airlines.
Cheers.
A few years later I had a job with an English airline at the base of my choice... I think take what you can get in the first years to get the experience. At Monarch we have to be based within 1:30 of the base, with 30 mins to get ready ie total from phone call to report max 2:00. No idea about other airlines.
Cheers.
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Worry about getting a job, not where it is. If you are lucky enough to get one, and they are like gold dust at the moment, then just move where you need to move. I was lucky enough to land my first job near to where I lived. The second one, well, not so close!
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Dave:
1. Never turn down your first job (wherever it is)
2. Never turn down a type rating
3. Never turn down your first command (wherever it is)
4. Never turn down buying your round.
It will get you far
Regards
AVCP
for info:
1. STN
2. ATR 72
3. still waiting
4. still buying
1. Never turn down your first job (wherever it is)
2. Never turn down a type rating
3. Never turn down your first command (wherever it is)
4. Never turn down buying your round.
It will get you far
Regards
AVCP
for info:
1. STN
2. ATR 72
3. still waiting
4. still buying
we have to be based within 1:30 of the base, with 30 mins to get ready ie total from phone call to report max 2:00. No idea about other airlines.
For what it's worth, I also didn't have a massive choice - faced with temping and the hope of a summer flying contract, I managed to get my claws on a permanent Airbus job in central Europe, miles from home. It meant leaving the family and the girlfriend behind and yes, it gets a bit lonely sometimes but it was an absolute no-brainer and the experience so far has been absolutely great. Of course I'd like to be back oop north in England one day, preferably in the medium term, but in the current market if someone offers you reasonable money to fly I'd say grab it with both hands and don't let go. Regardless of location. You can deal with that later.
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interesting thread. I am curious, does anyone commute by air to their base a day before duty. Then hit the crash pad for the night and start their day in the morning? For example, if you live in Germany, but based in LHR. cheers!
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My first job (and current one) is London City based, this was communicated to me during my interview.
I'm from West Sussex so the drive was 1hr 10 on a good day and up to 2 hr's on a bad day, which was still quicker then public transport (
)
My company wants me to be able to report within 45 minutes on standbys so like some of the guy's above I rent an appartment with 2 other F/O's near the airport and drive back to Horsham on my off days.
It works out nicely and i'm very pleased to be in work
I wouldn't turn down any job at the moment even with experience.
I'm from West Sussex so the drive was 1hr 10 on a good day and up to 2 hr's on a bad day, which was still quicker then public transport (
)My company wants me to be able to report within 45 minutes on standbys so like some of the guy's above I rent an appartment with 2 other F/O's near the airport and drive back to Horsham on my off days.
It works out nicely and i'm very pleased to be in work
I wouldn't turn down any job at the moment even with experience.
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NEVER EVER TURN DOWN YOUR FIRST JOB!
One thing the ATPL's never teach you is that you must be prepared to operate from any base within the UK. What you must do though is talk with family and agree on a plan as to how you will cope and survive during the first few months.
In the current climate, you cant be too choosy. It will be hard and the level of homesickness will be high but it does get better, trust me.
Good luck and remember, its not forever.
One thing the ATPL's never teach you is that you must be prepared to operate from any base within the UK. What you must do though is talk with family and agree on a plan as to how you will cope and survive during the first few months.
In the current climate, you cant be too choosy. It will be hard and the level of homesickness will be high but it does get better, trust me.
Good luck and remember, its not forever.
Educated Hillbilly
I must be the only person who can say accepting my first offer hindered my career rather than helped it.
If I had turned down the first job I was offered and accepted the second job I was offered (the two offers were a week apart), I can say
1) I would still be flying for a living now,
2) Would have twice as many flying hours by now
3) Would have a useful type on my license.
As a result of accepting the first job offer I also missed out on three further interviews of which two were for jet jobs.
So accepting the first job you are offered is not always in your best interest, hind-sight is a great thing but for me accepting the first job has set me back years.
If I ever secure a second commercial job I will write the full explanation.
If I had turned down the first job I was offered and accepted the second job I was offered (the two offers were a week apart), I can say
1) I would still be flying for a living now,
2) Would have twice as many flying hours by now
3) Would have a useful type on my license.
As a result of accepting the first job offer I also missed out on three further interviews of which two were for jet jobs.
So accepting the first job you are offered is not always in your best interest, hind-sight is a great thing but for me accepting the first job has set me back years.
If I ever secure a second commercial job I will write the full explanation.