Airline Training Partnership (Merged)
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When I asked asked a training Captain I was flying with the other day about the standard these ATP guys he simply said "it appears the only selection process these guys have gone through is that their cheques cleared"
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Where are these pilots line training or line flying with Air Arabia or Easyjet they may look at these forums every day but why don't they post on here to shut up the dissenters. My feelings are if the deal was so good, guys and girls would be crowing about it on here and singing the ATPs praises. I have checked out the ATP site and once again there are no testimonies about how great it is as yet....
My feeling are that paid or other schemes such as ATP, Storm CTC and Ryanair have had there day in the present climate. They may return but currently they have no place.
Now it's not all doom and gloom feeders such as Flybe will start recruiting again and the airlines will recover in time. I suggest that instructing would be cheaper and in the long run make you more attractive to all employers than A320 and 300hrs that have been in the log book for over a year.
Roller
My feeling are that paid or other schemes such as ATP, Storm CTC and Ryanair have had there day in the present climate. They may return but currently they have no place.
Now it's not all doom and gloom feeders such as Flybe will start recruiting again and the airlines will recover in time. I suggest that instructing would be cheaper and in the long run make you more attractive to all employers than A320 and 300hrs that have been in the log book for over a year.
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And Captain Punishment, you are correct, as far as I know, the first batch who have just finished their line training have gone to one of ATP's partner airlines, Air Arabia.
EpsilonVaz: I have had 2 PM's regarding the employment at the end of the scheme with Air Arabia that does not reflect your view.
2 separate students that have finished or are very close have indicated that they still haven't had any concrete evidence of anyone going to Air Arabia, ATP have been talking about another carrier now.
Aparently the story keeps changing and everyone is still in limbo land waiting for information about the job at the end of the course.
They have been worrying all through the course about wether all the promises will be true, it is still the same upon completion apparently.
It is a shame as I was really starting to think that this course was my next step once I get my MCC done.
Does anyone else have any hard evidence about the job situation at the end? Just as another poster mentioned, I can't see that the ATP lot are in anyway worried about 'getting jumped on' as EpsilonVaz suggested if there was good news. I would expect far from it, they would indeed be crowing about it and sat there smiling knowing that it all came good for them and they have a job and we do not and I wouldhave thought been the first to jump on here and silience the doubters.
I wonder if there is any chance of ATP doing something to prove that hey have delivered the job at the end as promised??!! Lets hope they do, then they would certainly have many takers and many less doubters then.
EpsilonVaz: I have had 2 PM's regarding the employment at the end of the scheme with Air Arabia that does not reflect your view.
2 separate students that have finished or are very close have indicated that they still haven't had any concrete evidence of anyone going to Air Arabia, ATP have been talking about another carrier now.
Aparently the story keeps changing and everyone is still in limbo land waiting for information about the job at the end of the course.
They have been worrying all through the course about wether all the promises will be true, it is still the same upon completion apparently.
It is a shame as I was really starting to think that this course was my next step once I get my MCC done.
Does anyone else have any hard evidence about the job situation at the end? Just as another poster mentioned, I can't see that the ATP lot are in anyway worried about 'getting jumped on' as EpsilonVaz suggested if there was good news. I would expect far from it, they would indeed be crowing about it and sat there smiling knowing that it all came good for them and they have a job and we do not and I wouldhave thought been the first to jump on here and silience the doubters.
I wonder if there is any chance of ATP doing something to prove that hey have delivered the job at the end as promised??!! Lets hope they do, then they would certainly have many takers and many less doubters then.
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Captain punishment,i do agree with you that no one has been placed i know two guys personally who did the course,from what they are telling me is exactly what you have written.
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Yvla: Thanks for your post, I guess the real true filters out in the end no matter what. I think most people are hearing this.
Maybe as its a new scheme its just a slow starting for the first jobs etc and then with the door open more will just walk straight in.
The worry is that all these carriers mentioned linked with the ATP scheme are advertising for pilots right now, so why aren't these students having to wait a couple of months etc and not getting the jobs now when the airline need them now??
Maybe it is all legit,but it sures seems suspect to me at the moment. I will keep in touch with my contacts to see what is happening on this one.
Maybe as its a new scheme its just a slow starting for the first jobs etc and then with the door open more will just walk straight in.
The worry is that all these carriers mentioned linked with the ATP scheme are advertising for pilots right now, so why aren't these students having to wait a couple of months etc and not getting the jobs now when the airline need them now??
Maybe it is all legit,but it sures seems suspect to me at the moment. I will keep in touch with my contacts to see what is happening on this one.
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Anybody have any more news on jobs after completion of the line flying with easyJet?
There must be more people that have gone through the scheme by now that could comment surely?
There must be more people that have gone through the scheme by now that could comment surely?
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AIR ARABIA FO requirements:
- A minimum of 1500 hours as your total flying hours.
- A minimum of 800 hours on A320, and currently on A320
So recent ATP cadets would be unlikely to go there with under half the hours required on type and probably nowhere near the total time.
- A minimum of 1500 hours as your total flying hours.
- A minimum of 800 hours on A320, and currently on A320
So recent ATP cadets would be unlikely to go there with under half the hours required on type and probably nowhere near the total time.
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Two points,
If ezy have agreed with BALPA not to enter into this training partnership again, who will be doing the line training?
I assume ATP will advertise on their website, the percent of their clients who have gained full time employment since training, to show others who are interested how good they are?
If ezy have agreed with BALPA not to enter into this training partnership again, who will be doing the line training?
I assume ATP will advertise on their website, the percent of their clients who have gained full time employment since training, to show others who are interested how good they are?
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Angelorange, airline requirements are very flexible, so the Air Arabia requirements will not necessarily rule out these guys.
That said, I am not convinced by this scheme, if I was a chief pilot, I would want either 1) Cadets who are brand new who can be indoctrinated in the company flying culture/SOPS or 2)People with enough experience on type to make the SOP conversion the main problem, with flying the aircraft second nature.
I would not want to employ people who have come freshly out of completing line training for another airline. You would have to reprogram them at a stage where routine and process gives them something to hang their hat off.... not ideal IMHO (this is said as an FO who has seen people really struggle in my previous airline who have gone through a scheme like this).
That said, I am not convinced by this scheme, if I was a chief pilot, I would want either 1) Cadets who are brand new who can be indoctrinated in the company flying culture/SOPS or 2)People with enough experience on type to make the SOP conversion the main problem, with flying the aircraft second nature.
I would not want to employ people who have come freshly out of completing line training for another airline. You would have to reprogram them at a stage where routine and process gives them something to hang their hat off.... not ideal IMHO (this is said as an FO who has seen people really struggle in my previous airline who have gone through a scheme like this).
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tom: But these guys did get a job after a scheme like this even if it was by their own efforts and not being placed by the training provider? I know it would be tough in these times, but not absolutely impossible.
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angelorange is correct!!
A close friend of mine completed said course and Line training two weeks ago, Still no job and in limbo and yes he had all the gaurantees of a job offer!!!! but he does not have the total time to be employable with these middle east airlines and Easy certainly are not taking them on.....
Bad timing I guess 
Good luck to all
Bad timing I guess Good luck to all
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Cpt. Punishment,
Yes, if it works, and gets you a job for the vital first 1000 hours jet or so..
If Air Arabia is the destination airline of choice at the moment, why not simply give them a phone call? It shows a proactive side of yourself, plus it might give you the info you need to make an informed decision. If they tell you to PFO, well you know probably it isn't all that great. I am sure with a bit of research you could find the telephone number of someone there.
Personally I paid for a type rating as a GECAT cadet, that worked very well for me; 2 years later I am a senior FO on the A320 series at a large UK airline. That was two years ago sadly. This current climate doesn't have so many ways in, so if you can find one that works; fairplay!
Yes, if it works, and gets you a job for the vital first 1000 hours jet or so..
If Air Arabia is the destination airline of choice at the moment, why not simply give them a phone call? It shows a proactive side of yourself, plus it might give you the info you need to make an informed decision. If they tell you to PFO, well you know probably it isn't all that great. I am sure with a bit of research you could find the telephone number of someone there.
Personally I paid for a type rating as a GECAT cadet, that worked very well for me; 2 years later I am a senior FO on the A320 series at a large UK airline. That was two years ago sadly. This current climate doesn't have so many ways in, so if you can find one that works; fairplay!
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TOM: Thanks for insight into your experience and am pleased that you got where you wanted to be after paying for a type rating.
It goes to show that the system does work, although as you quite rightly said times are hard for someone giving you a start - need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience!
It goes to show that the system does work, although as you quite rightly said times are hard for someone giving you a start - need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience!
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i know for a fact no one has been sent to an airline through atp as of yet.
atp is a money making scheme
the aviation world is really changing... just like in any industry there are lots of small companies making money out of "innocent wannabe hopefuls..(pilots)"
if you dont believe me..which is understandable...
wait to see results before you invest in this course.
ask to speak to the pilots that have been sent to the airline..i dont think that is too much to ask for $46000.
good luck what ever you do.. please be careful of atp
atp is a money making scheme
the aviation world is really changing... just like in any industry there are lots of small companies making money out of "innocent wannabe hopefuls..(pilots)"
if you dont believe me..which is understandable...
wait to see results before you invest in this course.
ask to speak to the pilots that have been sent to the airline..i dont think that is too much to ask for $46000.
good luck what ever you do.. please be careful of atp
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shapiro: Thanks for your view I would be very interested if you did the course or knew somebody that did etc? You can PM me if you don't wish to discuss on here publicly.
of flying with some of you guys and girls.
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i know for a fact no one has been sent to an airline through atp as of yet.
atp is a money making scheme
the aviation world is really changing... just like in any industry there are lots of small companies making money out of "innocent wannabe hopefuls..(pilots)"
if you dont believe me..which is understandable...
wait to see results before you invest in this course.
ask to speak to the pilots that have been sent to the airline..i dont think that is too much to ask for $46000.
good luck what ever you do.. please be careful of atp
atp is a money making scheme
the aviation world is really changing... just like in any industry there are lots of small companies making money out of "innocent wannabe hopefuls..(pilots)"
if you dont believe me..which is understandable...
wait to see results before you invest in this course.
ask to speak to the pilots that have been sent to the airline..i dont think that is too much to ask for $46000.
good luck what ever you do.. please be careful of atp
Of course its a money making scheme - aren't all businesses?
Its not just aviation that's changing - the world is changing and this is not the first time people ('innocent wanabees' oh pleeeease) have had to pay for any kind of training - history has many examples.
If it gives you an edge I say go for it, after all the days of paid-for type ratings are long gone in my opinion. As for the pleasure/or not
of flying with some of the ATP guys and girls, I find that a crass comment, but I'm sure they would voice the same opinion about you.
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if you dont believe me..which is understandable...
wait to see results before you invest in this course.
ask to speak to the pilots that have been sent to the airline..i dont think that is too much to ask for $46000.
good luck what ever you do..
wait to see results before you invest in this course.
ask to speak to the pilots that have been sent to the airline..i dont think that is too much to ask for $46000.
good luck what ever you do..