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Dash 8 Sim for MCC?

Old 21st Oct 2008, 18:01
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Dash 8 Sim for MCC?

Hi, does anybody know where there is a dash 8 simulator in the UK that does MCC courses? I can do it at European in Bournemouth but that's 737's, and if i have to spend that amount then i would rather do it on the aircraft Im likely to fly?? Many thanks
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 19:38
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I'd take the 737 at European, extremely unlikely to find a Dash 8 MCC providor and most companies you'll interview with hold their sim assessments on jets (737 being the most popular)

It was 2399 at European when I did my MCC there and I believe you'll be pushed to find a better, more useful course anywhere else

good luck with your training
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 19:49
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There are only 2 Dash 8 simualtors (Q400) in the UK. They are both in Farnborough (FAB) and operated by Flight Safety International. There is also a Q300 sim at Le Bourget in Paris.

If you wish to fly a Q400 then there is not much point in doing a 737 MCC. Flybe do their sim checks on a Saab 340 sim or a Beech 1900 sim, both also located at FAB.
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 21:58
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Thumbs up

Thanks for your help i will look at Farnb. The reason I believe i will be flying the dash is that i live in Guernsey, they are still interested in channel islands pilots. If not i will purchase an ATR type rating for Aurigny. Thats also news to me as i heard that read the other day that they are still making more money then last year despite all the problems airlines are having, it doesnt seem to be affecting domestic flights from the channel islands.

Thanks for the information on the dash, it really helps, couldnt find anything on the dash.

re: adverse bump comment please read the link attached below
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 22:51
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Adverse Bump, FlyBe are one of the strongest airlines in the UK at present posting record profits... - News
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 08:31
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Flybe are doing very well ! And they are still recruiting, but not for 200hour " zero to hero " guys! a couple of mates that instructed have got interveiws comoing up!

I think adverse bump is just trying to spread a rumour because flybe could send his company under, just for the fun off it!!
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 11:13
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adverse-bumb - dve = ?
do the maths!
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 12:11
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And word on the street is there finically f*cked!
Would you mind going into financial detail for us to back this up? We're dying to hear. I've a balance sheet in front of me for the quarter so would be quite interesting to compare against what your word on the street says.

Last edited by Wireless; 22nd Oct 2008 at 23:23.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 12:54
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If his financial insight is anything like his spelling, my mortgage payments should be safe for a while yet . . .
G SXTY is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2008, 18:45
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I'm obviously missing something.

What difference does it make what you do your MCC in? You're not learning how to operate the a/c - you're learning to work as part of a multicrew operation.

If you place any importance on the a/c type, then you're completely and utterly missing the point of the MCC. Money wasted.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 19:07
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Well I think that it is a personal choice, I believe that if you are most likely to be working on a turbo prop then if you can find that type of a/c to do an MCC, which for the amount of time and resources used is a waste of money, it costs less to do the whole of the ATPL course at Cabair full time for 7 months!! Then find one, if not I will do it at European, I would prefer to look around first though!

My query was not to whether the course was useful or not, just that it is hardly value for money and would prefer to get as much benefit as possible.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 21:58
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Otto Throttle is of course right about the MCC aspect, but totally wrong on the other hand.
For instance, I did my MCC on a turbo prop, I chose this one because the airline I work for uses this very sim for sim checks, so when I did the sim check I already had 25hrs in her, did it help? bloody right it did.

Just by being a little smart about it can make a big difference
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 22:53
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My point exactly, myself living in the channel islands will be on turbo props. Where did you do your MCC because Im yet to find somewhere in the uk that does it on turbo props!
Many Thanks
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 10:56
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I drive one of those Dash 8s, and I'd love you to get a job with us so that I don't have to come down to GCI so often. Only kidding, lovely place really.

As already mentioned, I'm not aware of anyone doing an MCC on a Dash 8, and it's hardly an ideal aircraft for the exercise. If you're thinking about the Q400, it's huuugely overpowered, the autoflight control panel can be very tricksy and you're constantly retrimming the rudder, even with both engines working. In short, it's a bit of a handful, and if you're coming from a Duchess or Seneca, you'd spend most of the course trying to catch up with the aircraft rather than developing your multicrew skills.

I understand where you're coming from re. getting experience on something you're likely to fly, but many and varied are the types of aircraft operating from the Islands, and at the risk of stating the obvious, a sim is type specific.

The MCC is one of those subjects where if you ask 10 pilots, you'll get at least 12 different opinions. For what it's worth, I've played with several different types of sim during training:

- Fixed base, clockwork dials (Duchess - IR)
- Full motion, clockwork dials (737-200 - MCC)
- Fixed base, EFIS (CRJ - JOC)
- Full motion, EFIS (Saab 340 & Q400 - assessment and type rating)

For me, the best of the bunch was the 737. Practicing with clockwork dials really sharpens up your scan, and it's a much easier transition from clockwork to glass than the other way. Full motion is useful, if only because many airlines use full motion sims for their assessments, and it can be a little disconcerting if your first experience of being bounced around is during the assessment itself.

Personally, I'd go to European for the experience (the quality of training was also superb) - then, as and when you get invited for a sim assessment, find out what sim it's on and treat yourself to an hour or two's practice. It worked for me . . .
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 11:32
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That's a very sound piece of advice.

The Q400 is indeed a handful but transition through type rating would benefit from the MCC being completed in it too!
Certa Cito is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2008, 11:44
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I also drive a Dash-8, and agree with most of the statements made above. I think your first priority should be how to get the job first and then how to fly the aircraft you are going to be flying. And alot of companies I know of use the 737 for their assessment. If you can nail hands-on-flying on that type, keeping up with the speed and maintaining a good scan, you'll be able to pass your assessment. Once you pass your assessment, you will have a job/be in a hold pool. You can head out to flightsafety at Le-Bourget Paris to buy some time in the Q300 sim to prepare for your sim. But make sure you have the priority right in the first place. Good luck with flying the Dash if you eventually do fly it, I've had my fun with it(last flight on Friday 16:00), its time to move to London City to fly the RJ100.
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Old 24th Oct 2008, 00:17
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Prop MCC


I did my MCC Course at halpenny green on their Cheyanne, I know its not Dash or ATR, but it was useful, and as pointed out, its just a tick in the box for licence, the emphasis is on MCC, not flying the aircraft type !, so dont waste your money if you dont need to, and as G SXTY says, clockwork sorts your scan out! , especially if you want to fly a TP, I went on to do the TR on the ATR and now fly for Airline in Europe.

The ATR market in the UK is not that good at the moment on the Pax side of things, I have a couple of mates who are going to be looking for jobs soon or so they told me yesterday, bear this mind. But good luck.

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Old 24th Oct 2008, 10:13
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Post Olympic Airlines

Mr. Flybe Wannabe....

I too had a similar notion as you and upon looking around few years ago for a DHC-8 MCC course stumbled upon Olympic in Greece. Called them, spoke to a few friends here and in Athens and instead signed up with Jetlinx Flight Training which used 757/767 sims at Cranebank. The decision was more for their reputation and also for logistical reasons. I felt that the experience helped enormously during a Jet sim check and the subsequent Type Rating.

With regard to you, I would agree with most of the previous posts. If unable to MCC on a Dash then sign up to do a good MCC/JOC course. I think Flybe uses a place in CVT for new entrants to do their JOC...? Atlantic Flight Training...?? Then when the time comes for a Flybe sim check at FAB, if the finances allow (2000 odd split between two for a 4 hour slot....) practice on the sim you'll actually be assessed on....

It's prudent to plan ahead, but do remember One step at a time.... Good luck

Last edited by Jetgate; 24th Oct 2008 at 10:47.
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Old 24th Oct 2008, 11:14
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Thumbs up

Thanks for the advice, I will do exactly that then, its good to know what people already there did, and what works best, many thanks!
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