"The MPL is a superb system for becoming an aviator"
Sit next to someone that can't even fly a cessna 152?
Just shows from Duir's post just how much some people are ignorant of what the MPL consists of. The Sterling MPLs would have done 76 flying hours in light singles and twins.
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Its a pity that you dont read the flying requirements of a MPL licence. (post 19 shows an example). But dont let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
Any way I would rather sit next to someone who can sort the fms out than one who can do chandelles in a 152. (is that how you spell chandelles?)
This was my response to duir in the MPL thread in R&N.
Hey Mods is it about time we combined the two threads?
Any way I would rather sit next to someone who can sort the fms out than one who can do chandelles in a 152. (is that how you spell chandelles?)
This was my response to duir in the MPL thread in R&N.
Hey Mods is it about time we combined the two threads?
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Isn't the whole idea of becoming a commercial pilot to have the ability of flying SEIR?, these guys/girls wont have the SE training background.
The MEIR as all good and well but when it hits the fan and the skipper goes ill I think you will find they are back to S/IR? And before anyone starts, I realise they will be trained for this situation, but if it happens......we'll see.
I am sure there will be people reading these posts cursing this newish qualification and it could mean in the future reducing T's&C's for the rest of us.
Personally having come from the school of fcuking hard knocks, it seems alittle unfair to have done all that work for the same result.
M.
P.S. I did not think MPL could upgrade to captain.
The MEIR as all good and well but when it hits the fan and the skipper goes ill I think you will find they are back to S/IR? And before anyone starts, I realise they will be trained for this situation, but if it happens......we'll see.
I am sure there will be people reading these posts cursing this newish qualification and it could mean in the future reducing T's&C's for the rest of us.
Personally having come from the school of fcuking hard knocks, it seems alittle unfair to have done all that work for the same result.
M.
P.S. I did not think MPL could upgrade to captain.
MPL doesn't tie you to a particular airline or type. It doesn't stop you becoming a Captain on a multi pilot aircraft. It does have some logic to it as there is a gulf of difference between light aircraft flying and modern airliner flying.
HOWEVER.
Never ever fly the Mk1.
Those poor unemployed people now with MPL's may find that although another operator may be looking for type qualified recruits that airline may not have MPL provided for in either their AOC or their insurance policy. Doubtless this will be sorted out as MPL grows more popular (if it does). But for now, on the dole and job hunting, I'd want an old fashioned (!) JAA license CPL/IR.
WWW
HOWEVER.
Never ever fly the Mk1.
Those poor unemployed people now with MPL's may find that although another operator may be looking for type qualified recruits that airline may not have MPL provided for in either their AOC or their insurance policy. Doubtless this will be sorted out as MPL grows more popular (if it does). But for now, on the dole and job hunting, I'd want an old fashioned (!) JAA license CPL/IR.
WWW
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mpl
hello duir, hope all is going well.
76 hours in light SEP and MEP, WOW!. Normally those MEP hours in a Seneca or something similar are about 20. In my opinion you cannot skillfully operate a twin with those hours. Leaving the remainder in the SEP. With those hours you are just beginning to learn and not at a comfortable level. I am guessing at that hour breakdown, so please let me know what exactly they are.
Working an FMS competantly is great but sometimes hand flying skills are needed. Not all aircraft have the luxury of autoland and or 2000m + runways.
Personally, I have been to airports and in conditions that I needed to draw on my 'hand flying skills' background.
I have no rell opinion on the MPL Vs CPL/IR. Obviously there are valid arguments for both.
76 hours in light SEP and MEP, WOW!. Normally those MEP hours in a Seneca or something similar are about 20. In my opinion you cannot skillfully operate a twin with those hours. Leaving the remainder in the SEP. With those hours you are just beginning to learn and not at a comfortable level. I am guessing at that hour breakdown, so please let me know what exactly they are.
Working an FMS competantly is great but sometimes hand flying skills are needed. Not all aircraft have the luxury of autoland and or 2000m + runways.
Personally, I have been to airports and in conditions that I needed to draw on my 'hand flying skills' background.
I have no rell opinion on the MPL Vs CPL/IR. Obviously there are valid arguments for both.
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Just so everyone knows what they are talking about this is the syllabus and experience that the Sterling MPL'ers should have had:-Pre-entry testCAPA & SterlingWeek 1 -6 PPL Theory/ Nat. Beg/ Core Flying Air Exercises 0 5Week 7 -9 Core Flying Air Exercises 6 10 First SoloWeek 10 -13 Core Flying Air Exercises 11 -18Week 13 -16 Gen. Cert. Core Flying Air Exercises 19 24Week 17 -58 ATPL Theory Core Flying Air Exercises 25 34Sterling entry testWeek 58 -64 Instrument Briefings Core Flying Air Exercises 35 53Week 64 -67 AssumetricBriefings Core Flying Air Exercises 54 60Week 68 -70 MCC/TEM Ground School Basic MCC 1 5Week 71 -80 EM cont. Basic MCC 6 15Week 81 -85 Introduction and Job Rotation in Sterling AirlinesWeek 85 -86 B737 Ground School CBT/Performance/Mass and BalanceWeek 86 -87 Emergency Training Intermediate FFS 1 5Week 88 -89 Advanced FFS 1 10 / MPL Skill TestWeek 90 Aircraft Training 12 Take offs and LandingsWeek 91 -100 Route Training B737 NG 100 Block hours/40 legsA/C (1/2 eng) 76 hoursFNPT II Multieng / MCC 110 hoursB 737 Jet proc 20 hoursB 737 FFS C/D 44 hoursMPL total 250 hoursB 737 A/C approx. 1hr (12 T/O & landings)Route trainingB737 100 hours Ads by GoogleFlying SchoolsPilot SchoolFlight InstructorAviation Schools
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rogerg
thats taken you some effort to put together but does not make a point.
someone who would want to criticise may put together a modular or integrated synopsis to reflect your input. it could seem more or less concise than your own list.
someone who would want to criticise may put together a modular or integrated synopsis to reflect your input. it could seem more or less concise than your own list.
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I am sure there will be people reading these posts cursing this newish qualification and it could mean in the future reducing T's&C's for the rest of us.
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With Mackey on this, I also came from the school of hard knocks. It is fairly easy to figure out how to use a FMC, BUT.... try flying an ILS to minima single engine RAW DATA and see how far you MPL guys get, or how about a NDB, again Raw Data??? Flying the good old twins gets you used to anything.
Now before you tell me you never do that, we I did last night for my OPC and passed. Still at least with the MPL you will know how to put a hold in!
Now before you tell me you never do that, we I did last night for my OPC and passed. Still at least with the MPL you will know how to put a hold in!
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Ford C,
MPL pilots will have plenty of single engine raw data training, probably more than you received.
Personally, I don't think the takeup rate for MPL is going to be very high. It includes a Type Rating and only those with half their brain tied behind their back will pay for a TR if a job is not attached. This effectively limits MPL in the UK to sponsored/tagged/mentored cadet programmes ala CTC, OAA, FTE, Cabair and only two of the four have TR facilities. Most self-sponsored students will continue with Modular or Integrated fATPL training. Some fear the Modulars will become marginalized, but I think that would only happen if airline recruiters came under mass hypnosis and accepted MPL en masse. That will never happen, so it's more likely that the MPL holders will be the marginalized ones for the first 5-10 years and these nine may be experiencing the fringe already.
MPL pilots will have plenty of single engine raw data training, probably more than you received.
Personally, I don't think the takeup rate for MPL is going to be very high. It includes a Type Rating and only those with half their brain tied behind their back will pay for a TR if a job is not attached. This effectively limits MPL in the UK to sponsored/tagged/mentored cadet programmes ala CTC, OAA, FTE, Cabair and only two of the four have TR facilities. Most self-sponsored students will continue with Modular or Integrated fATPL training. Some fear the Modulars will become marginalized, but I think that would only happen if airline recruiters came under mass hypnosis and accepted MPL en masse. That will never happen, so it's more likely that the MPL holders will be the marginalized ones for the first 5-10 years and these nine may be experiencing the fringe already.
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What I don't understand about the Microsoft Pilot License (MPL), is there are LOADS of people out there with traditional CPL/IR's (with MCC's) already....just employ them, do the type rating and line training...and hey presto, 4 months later you have a fully qualified driver..... Surely just doing such a thing is cheaper (and quicker) than putting someone through an an ENTIRE pilot training course...
and I have been through the above process so I know it works.....
Or am I missing somthing here?!?!?!?!?!?!
and I have been through the above process so I know it works.....
Or am I missing somthing here?!?!?!?!?!?!
Last edited by bluelearjetdriver; 21st Aug 2008 at 08:01. Reason: my spelling is almost as bad a a chav's
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Once upon a time there were a number of large European airlines that had surplus sim availability. They dreamed of a time when they could grab a cadet that had jumped through all of their entrance tests and put them through a tailored course that was relevant to their operation. Hence the MPL was born.
Unfortunately the regulators didn't limit the course to only the airlines that had jobs available. Instead opportunistic TRTO's cottoned onto this and started to offer courses as well.
The most obvious difference to me about the MPL (or how it was supposed to work anyway) is that you have passed an airlines entry tests before embarking on the courses. Compare that with the traditional method of throwing lots of dosh at your courses and then sending out a 100 cv's wondering why no one ever calls you. Its a process of self selection and sadly there are many people that will NEVER EVER get near a commercial aircraft no matter how hard they try and how much money they throw at it.
Unfortunately the regulators didn't limit the course to only the airlines that had jobs available. Instead opportunistic TRTO's cottoned onto this and started to offer courses as well.
The most obvious difference to me about the MPL (or how it was supposed to work anyway) is that you have passed an airlines entry tests before embarking on the courses. Compare that with the traditional method of throwing lots of dosh at your courses and then sending out a 100 cv's wondering why no one ever calls you. Its a process of self selection and sadly there are many people that will NEVER EVER get near a commercial aircraft no matter how hard they try and how much money they throw at it.
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With Mackey on this, I also came from the school of hard knocks. It is fairly easy to figure out how to use a FMC, BUT.... try flying an ILS to minima single engine RAW DATA and see how far you MPL guys get, or how about a NDB, again Raw Data??? Flying the good old twins gets you used to anything.
Now before you tell me you never do that, we I did last night for my OPC and passed. Still at least with the MPL you will know how to put a hold in!
Now before you tell me you never do that, we I did last night for my OPC and passed. Still at least with the MPL you will know how to put a hold in!
And please do not think it is just an easy ride. We did have our fair share of hard knocks. If anyone here are ready for an open dicussion based facts, let me know.
The MPL licence certainly has its disadvantages, but without knowing any facts, how can one actually make up its mind?
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is it really such a big difference?
As of now, a person can take his CPL/IR with 15-20 hrs on a twin engine with total of 150 hrs and considered done and ready for a typrating which takes approx say 40-50hrs?!
According to JAR-FCL, an MPL student are going to need at least 100hrs on a SEP (at least in Swe), and to be able to get the acctual MPL we need at least 240 hrs, where of some of it is in a full motion sim plus the MPL demands that you do 12 touch and goīs. And to "convert" to CPL/IR and MPL student requires an extra 30hrs PIC and 15 hrs in a SEP for the single engine skill test that CPL/IR requires.
Donīt get me wrong here! nothing is perfect from the begining and probably never will. There will be some issues during the implementation of this, but when you read JAR-FCL I think most people will see that it isnīt a huge difference from the "old" way. But I do agree on that you can never simulate real flying to 100% but bloddy close to it
A lot of focus is laid upon CRM and TEM in the MPL training.
Take care out there all aviators!!
As of now, a person can take his CPL/IR with 15-20 hrs on a twin engine with total of 150 hrs and considered done and ready for a typrating which takes approx say 40-50hrs?!
According to JAR-FCL, an MPL student are going to need at least 100hrs on a SEP (at least in Swe), and to be able to get the acctual MPL we need at least 240 hrs, where of some of it is in a full motion sim plus the MPL demands that you do 12 touch and goīs. And to "convert" to CPL/IR and MPL student requires an extra 30hrs PIC and 15 hrs in a SEP for the single engine skill test that CPL/IR requires.
Donīt get me wrong here! nothing is perfect from the begining and probably never will. There will be some issues during the implementation of this, but when you read JAR-FCL I think most people will see that it isnīt a huge difference from the "old" way. But I do agree on that you can never simulate real flying to 100% but bloddy close to it
A lot of focus is laid upon CRM and TEM in the MPL training.
Take care out there all aviators!!
