Quantas jobs for UK pilots
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Quantas jobs for UK pilots
on the quantas website there is a lot of info obviously directed towards Aussie pilots but little for any international pilots. does this mean UK low hr pilots have no chance of getting employment with them?
Jamie
Jamie
PPRuNe Handmaiden
There's a couple of questions you need to ask yourself.
Do I have Australian citizenship or permanent residency in Australia?
Have I got an Australian CPL with CIR and ATPL subjects completed?
If you do not, then employment with Qantas is not possible.
Do I have Australian citizenship or permanent residency in Australia?
Have I got an Australian CPL with CIR and ATPL subjects completed?
If you do not, then employment with Qantas is not possible.
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Yes, that would be a correct assumption. Despite their pilot shortage, the unions in Australia are very resistant to foreign pilots coming in to take jobs. Unless you are experienced and can be based in the UK, you've got a slim-to-none chance of getting a job with them.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
It has nothing to do with the unions. You must have those 2 things I mentioned. Without citizenship or a visa, forget Australia.
The only recent exception is Qantaslink has had to offer Visa 457 to Canadians and South Africans because there aren't enough experienced pilots willing to work for QL (read for the salary)
The only recent exception is Qantaslink has had to offer Visa 457 to Canadians and South Africans because there aren't enough experienced pilots willing to work for QL (read for the salary)
Could it possibly have entered your mind that the Ozzies over here have the right to work and live in Europe through their ancestors? So when you have the right to live and work in Australia then you can come and bitch about it!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Yes, one of my relatives was a criminal and sent out. Criminals always return to the scene of the crime, so here I am.
Any way, I have a UK passport because my father was born in Scotland. My husband's grandparents were born in Scotland so he has a visa.
If your parents/grandparents were born in Australia you'd have the same access.
If you want to complain about "fair", then why don't you compare both countries immigration policies. You'll find it a heck of a lot easier to get into Australia than vice versa if you have no ancestral rights.
Protectionalism? Don't make me laugh. Go and compare converting a JAA licence to an Australian one and vice versa. JAA land are past masters at protectionalism!
When I worked in Australia, a great deal many of pilots had "foreign" accents. Whether it be American, Canadian, French, British etc. They all had one thing. The right to live and work in Australia.
Any way, I have a UK passport because my father was born in Scotland. My husband's grandparents were born in Scotland so he has a visa.
If your parents/grandparents were born in Australia you'd have the same access.
If you want to complain about "fair", then why don't you compare both countries immigration policies. You'll find it a heck of a lot easier to get into Australia than vice versa if you have no ancestral rights.
Protectionalism? Don't make me laugh. Go and compare converting a JAA licence to an Australian one and vice versa. JAA land are past masters at protectionalism!
When I worked in Australia, a great deal many of pilots had "foreign" accents. Whether it be American, Canadian, French, British etc. They all had one thing. The right to live and work in Australia.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
flapsfullretard, the '89 dispute has nothing to do with my post about the number of foreign folks flying in Australia. Most of those guys have retired, about to retire or lost their jobs when Ansett collapsed in 2001. I don't have a problem with someone flying in Australia being born OS. If they are flying in Oz, they have either an Australian or New Zealand passport or a visa, also they have a CASA licence. In every company I worked for, approx 10% were foreign born. Absolutely nothing to do with the pilots dispute. Age isn't an issue. They either turned up when their parents migrated or migrated there themselves.
I don't think there are many low houred young Australians working for airlines in the UK. Don't confuse young southern hemisphere types on a gap year holiday with permanent migrants. I could name a couple of bars in Cairns that were chock full of British backpackers. Doesn't mean they're all going to work for Qantas or Virgin Blue.
I am here because I happen to be entitled to a UK passport. Why am I entitled? My father was born in Scotland. I would bet my house that the vast majority of southern hemisphere types you are talking about have British parents or grandparents. If I tried to migrate to the UK without any ancestral ties, I couldn't. (unless I was a nurse, a doctor or some mega rich person) Australia ran the £10 tourist scheme (Assisted passage) for many years. Many British (and other European) folks took up that offer from the Australian government so that's why so many Australians have access to a UK passport.
The Emirates pilot tale is a strange one. QF long haul weren't a part of the pilots dispute. (they weren't members of the AFAP)
dj. You apply for a visa before you go. It's all on the Australian immigration website.
I am beginning to think that the original poster is a troll..... and it worked...
I don't think there are many low houred young Australians working for airlines in the UK. Don't confuse young southern hemisphere types on a gap year holiday with permanent migrants. I could name a couple of bars in Cairns that were chock full of British backpackers. Doesn't mean they're all going to work for Qantas or Virgin Blue.
I am here because I happen to be entitled to a UK passport. Why am I entitled? My father was born in Scotland. I would bet my house that the vast majority of southern hemisphere types you are talking about have British parents or grandparents. If I tried to migrate to the UK without any ancestral ties, I couldn't. (unless I was a nurse, a doctor or some mega rich person) Australia ran the £10 tourist scheme (Assisted passage) for many years. Many British (and other European) folks took up that offer from the Australian government so that's why so many Australians have access to a UK passport.
The Emirates pilot tale is a strange one. QF long haul weren't a part of the pilots dispute. (they weren't members of the AFAP)
dj. You apply for a visa before you go. It's all on the Australian immigration website.
I am beginning to think that the original poster is a troll..... and it worked...
Flapfullretard
Question do you complain about the other nationalities that fly for UK airlines? If not why not? What about other Europeans?
Can you go and fly for Air france? In theory yes but practically no you cant unless you speak French! Isnt that also a form of protectionism?
The JAA are the masters of protectionism! 14 exams to fly an aircraft I already knew how to fly, then an MCC and then a stupidly high price to fly thats what I call protectionism.
You are more than welcome to any jobs in Auatralia, just go and get the visa or marry an Ozzie and convert then apply.
Question do you complain about the other nationalities that fly for UK airlines? If not why not? What about other Europeans?
Can you go and fly for Air france? In theory yes but practically no you cant unless you speak French! Isnt that also a form of protectionism?
The JAA are the masters of protectionism! 14 exams to fly an aircraft I already knew how to fly, then an MCC and then a stupidly high price to fly thats what I call protectionism.
You are more than welcome to any jobs in Auatralia, just go and get the visa or marry an Ozzie and convert then apply.
Last edited by Rhodes13; 22nd Jul 2008 at 13:14.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
flaps, I am a British citizen. I have a passport to prove it. I've worked in Australia and I don't want to fly a regional t/prop again. Oh, my job? I don't fly a G- reg aircraft. 
When I left Australia, there wasn't the pilot shortage that is happening now. So, there's nothing stopping a UK citizen chancing their arm and emigrating.
The vast majority of pilots who come from OS (eg Australia or New Zealand) have thousands of hours and therefore, the UK low houred pilots aren't really going for the same job. Whose fault is it that an antipodean pilot with thousands of hours on jets gets hired by easyJet? If they couldn't fulfil the company's requirements for the licence and right of abode, they wouldn't get the job. The CAA has rules about the experience mix in airlines. How many low houred antipodean pilots are there in the UK?
Australians and New Zealand pilots are used to shifting thousands of kilometres for their first and second (and probably third) job. First job? Probably flying a C206 or something similar. However, shifting overseas isn't the easiest thing in the world and makes you far more determined to get a job.
I don't think antipodean pilots are taking all the jobs in the UK.
If you have issues with the present governments' immigration and employment laws, take it up with your local representative.
When I left Australia, there wasn't the pilot shortage that is happening now. So, there's nothing stopping a UK citizen chancing their arm and emigrating.The vast majority of pilots who come from OS (eg Australia or New Zealand) have thousands of hours and therefore, the UK low houred pilots aren't really going for the same job. Whose fault is it that an antipodean pilot with thousands of hours on jets gets hired by easyJet? If they couldn't fulfil the company's requirements for the licence and right of abode, they wouldn't get the job. The CAA has rules about the experience mix in airlines. How many low houred antipodean pilots are there in the UK?
Australians and New Zealand pilots are used to shifting thousands of kilometres for their first and second (and probably third) job. First job? Probably flying a C206 or something similar. However, shifting overseas isn't the easiest thing in the world and makes you far more determined to get a job.
I don't think antipodean pilots are taking all the jobs in the UK.
If you have issues with the present governments' immigration and employment laws, take it up with your local representative.
Flapsfullretard heres an idea how about the UK ceases all overseas trade and bans all things that aren't produced in the UK as well as immigration. Would that solve the problem of no jobs for UK people?
Why do you not complain about the british pilots in the sandpit or on Asia? Or would that make a very big hole in your argument? You don't seem to be understanding the point that every ozzie that is here has the RIGHT OF ABODE to the UK and thus is a UK CITIZEN. When will you get that through your thick head?
I pay uk taxes I have a national insurance number what more would you like? Once again you seem to convientently ignore the fact that BA, BMI and easyjet etc has plenty of Dutch italians etc and the like flying for it. Why not start a thread about how BA should kick those people out? Do you complain about all the English flying for Ryanair. By your logic they are displacing an Irish wannabe? No why not?
As such your argument about displacing english people is moot. Is it our fault that we have hours when we came over. Maybe you would like me to say I have none or give up those hours. Since when does an English person have a god given right to fly an airliner just because they are english?
As for low houred Oz pilots from Overseas I can name about ten that I know, from austria, india and south africa. You know what the common factor was? They had the right of abode for Australia!
Or is it just because you are xenophobic and cant stand the fact that the best person got the job that was going?
Why do you not complain about the british pilots in the sandpit or on Asia? Or would that make a very big hole in your argument? You don't seem to be understanding the point that every ozzie that is here has the RIGHT OF ABODE to the UK and thus is a UK CITIZEN. When will you get that through your thick head?
I pay uk taxes I have a national insurance number what more would you like? Once again you seem to convientently ignore the fact that BA, BMI and easyjet etc has plenty of Dutch italians etc and the like flying for it. Why not start a thread about how BA should kick those people out? Do you complain about all the English flying for Ryanair. By your logic they are displacing an Irish wannabe? No why not?
As such your argument about displacing english people is moot. Is it our fault that we have hours when we came over. Maybe you would like me to say I have none or give up those hours. Since when does an English person have a god given right to fly an airliner just because they are english?
As for low houred Oz pilots from Overseas I can name about ten that I know, from austria, india and south africa. You know what the common factor was? They had the right of abode for Australia!
Or is it just because you are xenophobic and cant stand the fact that the best person got the job that was going?
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Kinda wish my ancestors stole a loaf of bread and were dumb enough to get caught 200 years ago, oh well ho hum.
I've been reading this with interest as I hope to emigrate to Oz at some time in the future. The issue for me is this, I have an uncle living in Cairns, I'd be able to get sponsorship through him as last remaining family member plus all my points in the scoring system puts me up pretty high.
However if I am awarded right to live in Australia do I have to take it up immediately or can I wait until I have a job offer?
Don't want to go through the process and then have to move without anything and have to give up the award of residency because I can't get a job or alternatively go through the process and have the paperwork before someone will employ me.
It's definitely a chicken and egg thing. I do want to work in Australia as I think it has taken the best parts of the UK and the best of the US and left a lot of the b/s behind. Similar sports to home, same language (almost - G'day) and outdoors culture and nice climate.
I'll admit that it was hard for me to get one foot on the ladder as someone who was brought up in the UK to find a job with a UK company but that down to a few reasons:
1. English is the Lingua Franca of aviation, if you fly commercially you speak English to a degree, therefore the UK is open to you (27 European Union countries now + commonwealth)
2. We were a colonial power, we spread our language and peoples to the far reaches of the planet and as a result we have a lot who can reclaim access to our country via ancestry visas.
3. UK airlines basic business sense - a) take a 250 hour British pilot or b) ex Ansett/bush pilot with 3,000+ with right to live and work, despite excessive use of the word "mate", love or BBQ's and farts and nodding their head in satisfaction.
Not the best for us "home growns", but I don't think anyone can argue anything in aviation has been fair since the mid 80's (so I'm told)
I've been reading this with interest as I hope to emigrate to Oz at some time in the future. The issue for me is this, I have an uncle living in Cairns, I'd be able to get sponsorship through him as last remaining family member plus all my points in the scoring system puts me up pretty high.
However if I am awarded right to live in Australia do I have to take it up immediately or can I wait until I have a job offer?
Don't want to go through the process and then have to move without anything and have to give up the award of residency because I can't get a job or alternatively go through the process and have the paperwork before someone will employ me.
It's definitely a chicken and egg thing. I do want to work in Australia as I think it has taken the best parts of the UK and the best of the US and left a lot of the b/s behind. Similar sports to home, same language (almost - G'day) and outdoors culture and nice climate.
I'll admit that it was hard for me to get one foot on the ladder as someone who was brought up in the UK to find a job with a UK company but that down to a few reasons:
1. English is the Lingua Franca of aviation, if you fly commercially you speak English to a degree, therefore the UK is open to you (27 European Union countries now + commonwealth)
2. We were a colonial power, we spread our language and peoples to the far reaches of the planet and as a result we have a lot who can reclaim access to our country via ancestry visas.
3. UK airlines basic business sense - a) take a 250 hour British pilot or b) ex Ansett/bush pilot with 3,000+ with right to live and work, despite excessive use of the word "mate", love or BBQ's and farts and nodding their head in satisfaction.
Not the best for us "home growns", but I don't think anyone can argue anything in aviation has been fair since the mid 80's (so I'm told)
Last edited by Dreamshiner; 22nd Jul 2008 at 17:39.
Sorry the right of abode is the argument. I have full rights to be here as do you. When do I become a UK citizen? After 4 generations? 6? How many?
What you are effectively saying is that unless you are born here and can trace your roots back to day dot you have no right to be here. Well if that isnt a xenophobic myopic view I dont know what is!
You should be happy that people are choosing to move to the UK. Immigration into UK plc has been overall good for the economy. I pay my taxes and help support those English out of work. We could ban all overseas pilots and you would still have unemployed uk pilots.
You created the system when you let JAA and the EU run the market. Are you actually going to sit there and say that we should stop all that and go back to the old days. The liberalization created through the EU and JAA has allowed a hell of a lot more pilots to earn a living than ever before.
The argument about being in jets for guys from oz is irrelevant as the guys I knew were building time and you are comparing two totally different markets. Im sure there are guys from overseas flying for the big red rat and good on em.
Tell me what would you do. Remove all pilots flying for English airlines? You do that and the whole system/companies will collapse! Lets pull out all the pilots flying overseas and guess what the young wannabe will still be out of a job. Why because there is always someone more experienced than them. And then where will the precious uk pilot be?
You want to work overseas learn the language and have the right of abode!
Tell me do you read the daily mail?
What you are effectively saying is that unless you are born here and can trace your roots back to day dot you have no right to be here. Well if that isnt a xenophobic myopic view I dont know what is!
You should be happy that people are choosing to move to the UK. Immigration into UK plc has been overall good for the economy. I pay my taxes and help support those English out of work. We could ban all overseas pilots and you would still have unemployed uk pilots.
You created the system when you let JAA and the EU run the market. Are you actually going to sit there and say that we should stop all that and go back to the old days. The liberalization created through the EU and JAA has allowed a hell of a lot more pilots to earn a living than ever before.
The argument about being in jets for guys from oz is irrelevant as the guys I knew were building time and you are comparing two totally different markets. Im sure there are guys from overseas flying for the big red rat and good on em.
Tell me what would you do. Remove all pilots flying for English airlines? You do that and the whole system/companies will collapse! Lets pull out all the pilots flying overseas and guess what the young wannabe will still be out of a job. Why because there is always someone more experienced than them. And then where will the precious uk pilot be?
You want to work overseas learn the language and have the right of abode!
Tell me do you read the daily mail?
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A popular misconception I thought was reserved only for those filthy rebel yanks was to use the term 'English' when 'British' is correct. Now I find our colonial cousins using and making the same mistakes.
Makes me weep
Makes me weep
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Guys relax ! Not the Aussies fault that the british gave Australia away. Not the Aussies fault that the UK has piss poor immigration standards. Can you blame the Aussies for being careful who they let in ? They have learned a big lesson from the UK. Because once they are in, the goverment are so politically correct they can't be sent home. (Where ever they may be from).
FlapsFullRetard, We can all understand your frustration with your own country.
Have a good look at BA. Its quite amazing that they don't prioritise British nationals for their jobs. Its just a normal fact that Emirates make sure a local will always get a job over a foreigner and then hire the required pilots from where ever.
I'm sure if Qantas can't get the required pilots that they will provide visa's for experienced pilots. The fact is most Australian's can't get into Qantas !!
FlapsFullRetard, We can all understand your frustration with your own country.
Have a good look at BA. Its quite amazing that they don't prioritise British nationals for their jobs. Its just a normal fact that Emirates make sure a local will always get a job over a foreigner and then hire the required pilots from where ever.
I'm sure if Qantas can't get the required pilots that they will provide visa's for experienced pilots. The fact is most Australian's can't get into Qantas !!
Last edited by dxbpilot; 23rd Jul 2008 at 08:44.
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To all those young wannabes musing about all the ozzies, kiwis, yanks, saffas etc etc taking their jobs well unfortunately you are blaming the wrong people. Look closer to home to find out why you are out of work. Show a bit of initiative and the jobs are there for the right people. Then again just sit in front of your pc and send off a thousand CV's and wait for a chief pilot to give you a buzz. The problem with this game now is that it is a process of self selection and there are far to many people that have paid out big bucks that will never ever ever cut the mustard.
If nothing is happening head off to Africa, get some hours and start door knocking in any part of the world you like thereafter. Just like the colonials have been doing for years. I look forward to hearing your "accents" up in the airways and good luck.
If nothing is happening head off to Africa, get some hours and start door knocking in any part of the world you like thereafter. Just like the colonials have been doing for years. I look forward to hearing your "accents" up in the airways and good luck.
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Sorry to detract from the colonial argument here, but does anyone know the process of converting over to an Austrailian CPL exams etc.... Have tried searching the net but keep getting conflicting advice.
Cheers!
(feel free to keep arguing!!)
Cheers!
(feel free to keep arguing!!)
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GB118,
I believe to convert a JAA CPL to an AUS CPL all that is required is for you to do a Flight Rules & Air Law exam, obtain a Class 1 medical (only available in Australia) and then a flight test with an Approved Testing Officer. There are plenty off ATO's around, and often large flying schools have them as CFIs or have a couple they use regularly for testing.
All of this is an awful lot cheaper and quicker than coverting an Aus CPL to a JAA CPL.
I believe to convert a JAA CPL to an AUS CPL all that is required is for you to do a Flight Rules & Air Law exam, obtain a Class 1 medical (only available in Australia) and then a flight test with an Approved Testing Officer. There are plenty off ATO's around, and often large flying schools have them as CFIs or have a couple they use regularly for testing.
All of this is an awful lot cheaper and quicker than coverting an Aus CPL to a JAA CPL.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
GB118,
Get it from the horse's mouth. CASA
You can get an Australian Class 1 medical in the UK. Now, whether it's an initial or a renewal might be a different thing. The CASA website should provide all the answers.
(Dr Cranston at Harpenden can do Aus medicals)
Get it from the horse's mouth. CASA
You can get an Australian Class 1 medical in the UK. Now, whether it's an initial or a renewal might be a different thing. The CASA website should provide all the answers.
(Dr Cranston at Harpenden can do Aus medicals)