View Poll Results: Was flying training a bad decision for you?
Yes, regretfully so
113
17.07%
Neither a bad not a good choice
121
18.28%
No, hell no, see you are 37,000ft
428
64.65%
Voters: 662. This poll is closed
Knowing what you know now about this game, wud you have done it all in the 1st plce?
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This is a sponsored scheme so i am guessing - not really in the soup?
B
B
I certainly wouldn't call CTC wings a sponsored scheme. You still pay for your own training, you still take out the huge loan which you are liable for repaying once you finish.
Yes the chances of getting a job are greater than with OAA/FTE but if the partner airlines are not hiring at the time you finish you'll be in a hold pool indefinitely with your loan accruing interest and your currency running out.
I was recently accepted and I am currently thinking long and hard about accepting in the current climate.
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James
I was under the impression that the airline repays the loan with you being bonded to them for the duration of the payments but that you take ownership and hence the fianancial risk for the 2 years during your training.
The current climate defo makes you think twice!
It would be really nice to speak to some CTC cadet grads past and present to find out more I guess.
B
I was under the impression that the airline repays the loan with you being bonded to them for the duration of the payments but that you take ownership and hence the fianancial risk for the 2 years during your training.
The current climate defo makes you think twice!
It would be really nice to speak to some CTC cadet grads past and present to find out more I guess.
B
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The CTC scheme ain't sponsored. A sponsored scheme means someone else pays for your training, but CTC want 60,000 pounds from you (or your bank) to teach you to fly. BA used to be the only sponsored scheme around where you payed nothing. That's no more. Apart from SIA, Cathay and Emirates, I don't think any remain.
CTC could be in a very difficult position this time next year - with 150 cadets per year, I think there are troubled times ahead. EZY are about to stop their recruitment, so the single most lucrative taker of CTC cadets will close their door. TCX will take a few for the summer, Ryanair may take more, but you'll be without a job after the summer with TCX, or have to pay Ryanair a bunch of cash, or even, be out of work for the winter when they park a sizable chunk of their fleet. Some Vietnam operator will take some more too, but nothing to replace the sort of numbers which went to EZY.
CTC's business model is based on rapidly growing fleets of it's partner airlines, and the turnover of pilots in others. When fleet expansion stops, it will necessarily affect how many of CTC's cadets get taken on. With EZY reducing their fleet size (I heard it was 5-7 aircraft, but I'm sure WWW will confirm) then the numbers required will reduce. If BA put a recruitment freeze on due to parking aircraft during the winter, then this will stop the turnover of pilots out of EZY and other partner airlines. This will again stop the flow of CTC cadets through the 'replace turnover of pilots' route.
With such a long lead time from start to finishing training, then potentially there are a large number of cadets who could be in a similar situation to the ATP cadets a year ago (some of which waited well over 12 months to go to a partner airline).
CTC could be in a very difficult position this time next year - with 150 cadets per year, I think there are troubled times ahead. EZY are about to stop their recruitment, so the single most lucrative taker of CTC cadets will close their door. TCX will take a few for the summer, Ryanair may take more, but you'll be without a job after the summer with TCX, or have to pay Ryanair a bunch of cash, or even, be out of work for the winter when they park a sizable chunk of their fleet. Some Vietnam operator will take some more too, but nothing to replace the sort of numbers which went to EZY.
CTC's business model is based on rapidly growing fleets of it's partner airlines, and the turnover of pilots in others. When fleet expansion stops, it will necessarily affect how many of CTC's cadets get taken on. With EZY reducing their fleet size (I heard it was 5-7 aircraft, but I'm sure WWW will confirm) then the numbers required will reduce. If BA put a recruitment freeze on due to parking aircraft during the winter, then this will stop the turnover of pilots out of EZY and other partner airlines. This will again stop the flow of CTC cadets through the 'replace turnover of pilots' route.
With such a long lead time from start to finishing training, then potentially there are a large number of cadets who could be in a similar situation to the ATP cadets a year ago (some of which waited well over 12 months to go to a partner airline).
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no sponsor (no cry)
From http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cadets/index.asp
"What's more, this is an affordable, sponsored route into the airline industry. To ensure talented applicants aren't grounded by a lack of finance, the CTC Wings Cadet route operates an innovative financial solution to fund your training."
Also
From http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cadets/finance.asp
"The CTC Wings cadet programme is a sponsored programme, which means you won't be paying for your training.'
B
Ps i am not looking for a forum spat I simply want to gather as much correct info as possible to aid me in making what is a very important descision for me
From http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cadets/index.asp
"What's more, this is an affordable, sponsored route into the airline industry. To ensure talented applicants aren't grounded by a lack of finance, the CTC Wings Cadet route operates an innovative financial solution to fund your training."
Also
From http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cadets/finance.asp
"The CTC Wings cadet programme is a sponsored programme, which means you won't be paying for your training.'
B
Ps i am not looking for a forum spat I simply want to gather as much correct info as possible to aid me in making what is a very important descision for me
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Belongins,
The airline contributes a tax free amount each month to your loan repayment. At the end of the day, its your loan, no one elses. If you get laid off for any reason you repay it.
Cheers
The airline contributes a tax free amount each month to your loan repayment. At the end of the day, its your loan, no one elses. If you get laid off for any reason you repay it.
Cheers
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belongins
As far as I'm aware the loan is always your risk, apart from in the initial phase of training where CTC will take some liability if you can't hack the course. Another thing to think about, with CTC shipping wings cadets off to the far sides of the world(Pacific airlines) and looking at other airlines to add as partners, there is a chance you may not be on quite the starting salary you would have got at EZY etc so those loan repayments could be leaving you with little disposable income to live.
Don't get me wrong think CTC wings is a good scheme but you need to consider all the options, and the ramifications of a debt that size.
Anyway this was turning into a good thread lets stop banging on about CTC now.
As far as I'm aware the loan is always your risk, apart from in the initial phase of training where CTC will take some liability if you can't hack the course. Another thing to think about, with CTC shipping wings cadets off to the far sides of the world(Pacific airlines) and looking at other airlines to add as partners, there is a chance you may not be on quite the starting salary you would have got at EZY etc so those loan repayments could be leaving you with little disposable income to live.
Don't get me wrong think CTC wings is a good scheme but you need to consider all the options, and the ramifications of a debt that size.
Anyway this was turning into a good thread lets stop banging on about CTC now.
Last edited by James_H1982; 20th May 2008 at 13:38.
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Kanu said
Errr...are you sure? I am in exactly that boat (or plane!) and its not happening for me right now..
I would say the requirements are increasing if anything - the heinous words that I read so often are "type rating or time on type required" Darn!
Try instructing mate - Its always sniffed at on this forum but its fun, it keeps you current, generally improves your flying and when you hit the magic 1000 hrs figure, employers start returning your calls and even calling you out of the blue.
I would say the requirements are increasing if anything - the heinous words that I read so often are "type rating or time on type required" Darn!
I note the CTC press release talking about the looming global shortage of pilots.
Try asking them exactly how many they currently have in their hold pool awaiting a course date with an airline.
Its still a good scheme and if you are thinking of spending that sort of cash on that sort of training I can think of no better way than to do it under CTC's wing. As their selection process is tough there is no harm whatsoever in applying.
WWW
Try asking them exactly how many they currently have in their hold pool awaiting a course date with an airline.
Its still a good scheme and if you are thinking of spending that sort of cash on that sort of training I can think of no better way than to do it under CTC's wing. As their selection process is tough there is no harm whatsoever in applying.
WWW
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Dubya Dubya dubya
I am hoping that IF they indeed have a hold pool and I think they probably do then its full of self sponsored integrated/modular or ATP guys and NO cadets..... of course I await to be corrected though.
B
Actually just found this
http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive.../t-267605.html
I am hoping that IF they indeed have a hold pool and I think they probably do then its full of self sponsored integrated/modular or ATP guys and NO cadets..... of course I await to be corrected though.
B
Actually just found this
http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive.../t-267605.html
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Basing this on WWW's previous posts, I think he would judge it on the current economic climate.
So for instance now, he entertains going modular and keeping debt and risk to the minimum, while keeping a job on the side.
In other times however (upturn), he says the merits of integrated courses really show, and it is a good route to go.
I realise I'm no substitue for WWW, but this is what I believe him to be saying based on various posts I've read.
I leave it to him to tell you himself...
So for instance now, he entertains going modular and keeping debt and risk to the minimum, while keeping a job on the side.
In other times however (upturn), he says the merits of integrated courses really show, and it is a good route to go.
I realise I'm no substitue for WWW, but this is what I believe him to be saying based on various posts I've read.
I leave it to him to tell you himself...
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Hmmm,
I find increasingly that many of my colleagues are echoing some of the feelings here.The problem is we all studied hard, paid alot to realise our 'dream'.
However the reality is -flying an airliner ain't that exciting.Its 90 % autopilot,90 % boredom to be honest.The progress page excites me most - especially when it gets down below 1000 miles to go.I expected more excitement.
The pay is OK but to be honest,for the responsibility involved I thought years ago that I would be paid mega bucks -not so.
Worst aspect is,of course,time away from the family especially with the kids at school. Try explaining to them why you will not be around for the next four weekends and will miss their ballet show etc etc. Feel like sh*t when one of them bursts into tears when you go away - to do what ?Drink with some 18year old girls you can't relate to in a grotty bar someplace far away.Feel like your eyeballs are about to bleed after a 13 hour shift.
Maybe I am painting a grim view but -this is the reality (at times)and it can be a harsh and lonely lifestyle.the view is nice though.
I find increasingly that many of my colleagues are echoing some of the feelings here.The problem is we all studied hard, paid alot to realise our 'dream'.
However the reality is -flying an airliner ain't that exciting.Its 90 % autopilot,90 % boredom to be honest.The progress page excites me most - especially when it gets down below 1000 miles to go.I expected more excitement.
The pay is OK but to be honest,for the responsibility involved I thought years ago that I would be paid mega bucks -not so.
Worst aspect is,of course,time away from the family especially with the kids at school. Try explaining to them why you will not be around for the next four weekends and will miss their ballet show etc etc. Feel like sh*t when one of them bursts into tears when you go away - to do what ?Drink with some 18year old girls you can't relate to in a grotty bar someplace far away.Feel like your eyeballs are about to bleed after a 13 hour shift.
Maybe I am painting a grim view but -this is the reality (at times)and it can be a harsh and lonely lifestyle.the view is nice though.
Berksflyer has me about right.
In the boom time an Integrated route can land you quickly in an airline job and is therefore worth it. It gets you into the industry quickly before the bust comes.
In the bust time a Modular route can keep you out of more debt and keep your income alive. It allows you to string out or pause your training allowing you to finish it just as the bust time ends.
In this business timing and luck are cruel cruel masters of your destiny.
WWW
In the boom time an Integrated route can land you quickly in an airline job and is therefore worth it. It gets you into the industry quickly before the bust comes.
In the bust time a Modular route can keep you out of more debt and keep your income alive. It allows you to string out or pause your training allowing you to finish it just as the bust time ends.
In this business timing and luck are cruel cruel masters of your destiny.
WWW
Interesting to see 28% of people here are not overall positive on their decision to train for commercial flying.
Its quite a lot and a figure that I think feels about right to me.
WWW
Its quite a lot and a figure that I think feels about right to me.
WWW
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I cant help but think that www's thoughts are solely based on non-sponsored entries be it mod or int.
IMHO this is not the question for me. I need to know / predict / have a gut feel for how the sponsored CTC wings cadet route will pan out for me.
This is the confusion mod/int and sponsored/self funded. Surely its the latter contrast (pair) that is dominant here (re: getting a job and how long etc etc) ??
please correct me if i am barking mad...confuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuused.com
IMHO this is not the question for me. I need to know / predict / have a gut feel for how the sponsored CTC wings cadet route will pan out for me.
This is the confusion mod/int and sponsored/self funded. Surely its the latter contrast (pair) that is dominant here (re: getting a job and how long etc etc) ??
please correct me if i am barking mad...confuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuused.com
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I spent many £1000s of pounds on flight training and time on studying for ATPL exams. Then I came accross unpleasant CAA examiner in my IR and that made my aviation experience worse. I neglected friends, family etc. during my training and the only job offer I got was from Ryanair (pay-to-work scheme).
Re-focused my career now on engineering job (have BEng degree) what I origianlly trained for. Making more money than most of the captains, enjoying time with family and friends and dont miss aviation at all (purely because it is so so expensive).
Would I do it again?
Yes if I was a rich man with loads of money and could write off £100000. Otherwise, I would stay grounded and keep away from flight schools marketing campaigns and instead of spending all my money on aviation, i'd spend it on friends, family, girls, cars, motorbikes, boats and still manage to save some too.
Re-focused my career now on engineering job (have BEng degree) what I origianlly trained for. Making more money than most of the captains, enjoying time with family and friends and dont miss aviation at all (purely because it is so so expensive).
Would I do it again?
Yes if I was a rich man with loads of money and could write off £100000. Otherwise, I would stay grounded and keep away from flight schools marketing campaigns and instead of spending all my money on aviation, i'd spend it on friends, family, girls, cars, motorbikes, boats and still manage to save some too.
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I am coming out of 7 years of professional engineering in a very good company making just over 30kpa (not that its about the cash of course
)
"Making more money than most of the captains"
I have read some some scaaaary figures on PPRuNe regarding captains salaries circa 4-10k NET! pcm.
I dont know anyone near me save for an MD who earns that and that means being chained to a Blackberry 24/7 and never seeing the fam!
I guess we all think the grass is greener and one point or another
B
)"Making more money than most of the captains"
I have read some some scaaaary figures on PPRuNe regarding captains salaries circa 4-10k NET! pcm.
I dont know anyone near me save for an MD who earns that and that means being chained to a Blackberry 24/7 and never seeing the fam!
I guess we all think the grass is greener and one point or another
B
