Is there going to be any jobs left for me? :(
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Thanks guys all of you for all of your help and opinions i think it boils down to me not knowing what i want.It's up to me now to decide what i want,so i'm going to have to go solo on that one.Once again thanks and if a mod could close this thread now it would be appreciated.
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.......cor, not fair AWACS_bhoy............I feel really frustrated now, like I've fallen asleep and missed the end of the movie!
Another quick question for you to ponder......if you could join the RAF, but not as a fighter controller, would you still do it? Seems to me the answer to that might be quite important to you.
Anyway, at least get back to us when you've made a decision.....please?
Another quick question for you to ponder......if you could join the RAF, but not as a fighter controller, would you still do it? Seems to me the answer to that might be quite important to you.
Anyway, at least get back to us when you've made a decision.....please?
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Go for the airlines now and join the RAF reserves.
It would be better to do the RAF part time and be paid an airline salary than doing the airline training on an RAF salary.
It would be better to do the RAF part time and be paid an airline salary than doing the airline training on an RAF salary.
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AWACS
My opinion for what it's worth:
Delay the Commission and go away to university grow older and wiser. After three or four years enjoying yourself and furthering your prospects make an informed decision:
If it's RAF Fighter Controller then convert to a short term Commission. Believe me after a few years of Controlling you will be wishing you were flying. I know, I've been there with the Army. All those nights away from home on Ops will give you the chance to save for your airline career.
If after few years at university you decide to go the airline route start applying for the sponsorships of the time. I know aviation is going through a bad patch at the moment but as we all know it's cyclical, who knows by the time you are 22 they may be crying out for pilots.
Whatever decision you make in the end please think about what you want out of life if it's is both Officer lifestyle and Airline pilot go for the Short Term Commision.
Hope it helps PM me if you want.
Roller
My opinion for what it's worth:
Delay the Commission and go away to university grow older and wiser. After three or four years enjoying yourself and furthering your prospects make an informed decision:
If it's RAF Fighter Controller then convert to a short term Commission. Believe me after a few years of Controlling you will be wishing you were flying. I know, I've been there with the Army. All those nights away from home on Ops will give you the chance to save for your airline career.
If after few years at university you decide to go the airline route start applying for the sponsorships of the time. I know aviation is going through a bad patch at the moment but as we all know it's cyclical, who knows by the time you are 22 they may be crying out for pilots.
Whatever decision you make in the end please think about what you want out of life if it's is both Officer lifestyle and Airline pilot go for the Short Term Commision.
Hope it helps PM me if you want.
Roller
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Delay the Commission and go away to university grow older and wiser
Another quick question for you to ponder......if you could join the RAF, but not as a fighter controller, would you still do it?
I have come to a decision and it's the only one I can see myself doing right now and that is to change my PC to a SSC ,experience life as a FC and then decide whether to extend my commission or whether to do my professional flight training, that way I will have the RAF experience whilst getting paid and be able to save for my flying
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My first impression was "by eck the lads only 17" but at 17 I wanted to be a pilot and stuck to it...
AWACS_bhoy; You have 20k in the bank / you're about to accept a career in the RAF for which you plan on serving for the next 23 years and save for your flying training because you want to be an airline pilot...
Firstly, I've been working in UK airlines for nearly 20 years now, and it aint the industry it was when I joined in 1991...the next 23 years...well, who knows, but i'd hazard a guess at alot less airlines than we have now!
Secondly, you write with a degree of intelligence, but you're a fruitcake - I would take that advice of a long long walk before doing anything else...
Sorry, not helpful I know, but this is just plain and simple, bloody odd!!!
AWACS_bhoy; You have 20k in the bank / you're about to accept a career in the RAF for which you plan on serving for the next 23 years and save for your flying training because you want to be an airline pilot...
Firstly, I've been working in UK airlines for nearly 20 years now, and it aint the industry it was when I joined in 1991...the next 23 years...well, who knows, but i'd hazard a guess at alot less airlines than we have now!
Secondly, you write with a degree of intelligence, but you're a fruitcake - I would take that advice of a long long walk before doing anything else...
Sorry, not helpful I know, but this is just plain and simple, bloody odd!!!
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I cant believe that anyone who claims to want to be an airline pilot actually believes he is intelligent enough to do so when he puts RAFREGO as a career choice before actually going into flying training , in fact such is his desire to fly that he actually puts four ground trades in front of an airborne one 
Methinks big wind up , if it aint then I think the regiment would love to meet him , thats is he can put himself through another period of sitting in lecture theatres , I seem to remember them doing that at Cranwell
Methinks big wind up , if it aint then I think the regiment would love to meet him , thats is he can put himself through another period of sitting in lecture theatres , I seem to remember them doing that at Cranwell
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Ok I appreciate opinions and advice but there is a line. This is not a wind up do you honestly think I would come on a professional forum like this to wind someone up? To be honest I wish it was a wind up because then I wouldn't have to be making such a big decision.
With regards to uni and education, who can honestly say they found studying English fun? I bet there is very few. I have no problem whatsoever studying and putting in effort for something I enjoy. I have a B at advanced higher maths, now anyone with a "cant be bothered" attitude will not get anywhere near sitting the course never mind a result. I enjoyed maths in fact it was my favourite subject so therefore I listened and worked hard at it as I do with everything im interested in, so before you even consider saying that I would not have a real go at it, try listening.
The reason I have put 4 ground trades before a flying one is 1.i was too tall for commissioned aircrew 2.I may have a passion for flying but I am not desperate that I would throw away a commission for it when I wouldn't even be in the cockpit and finally RAFREGO was a fallback.
I started this thread with a view to a simple answer but even that has proved too difficult for some people to grasp. I am confused and I have admitted it. Many different views from friends and families pushed me on to a forum looking for so called "professional" advice but instead I get people thinking this is all a big joke, it certainly is not!
With regards to uni and education, who can honestly say they found studying English fun? I bet there is very few. I have no problem whatsoever studying and putting in effort for something I enjoy. I have a B at advanced higher maths, now anyone with a "cant be bothered" attitude will not get anywhere near sitting the course never mind a result. I enjoyed maths in fact it was my favourite subject so therefore I listened and worked hard at it as I do with everything im interested in, so before you even consider saying that I would not have a real go at it, try listening.
The reason I have put 4 ground trades before a flying one is 1.i was too tall for commissioned aircrew 2.I may have a passion for flying but I am not desperate that I would throw away a commission for it when I wouldn't even be in the cockpit and finally RAFREGO was a fallback.
I started this thread with a view to a simple answer but even that has proved too difficult for some people to grasp. I am confused and I have admitted it. Many different views from friends and families pushed me on to a forum looking for so called "professional" advice but instead I get people thinking this is all a big joke, it certainly is not!
Last edited by AWACS_bhoy; 8th May 2008 at 19:09. Reason: typos
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The final insult is to critisize our advice after posting some of the most bizzare threads I've ever seen. It's not anybody elses fault if you come across as a bit of a clown (which you do).
There has been some very good advice given on this thread by some very experienced people. Listen to it. And if people think you are a bit of a joke, you need to think why.
EK
There has been some very good advice given on this thread by some very experienced people. Listen to it. And if people think you are a bit of a joke, you need to think why.
EK
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I have taken in the advice of everyone, as I said before I welcome criticism as it's something to build upon and work with, but there are a few who maybe have not been in a similar position not necessarily this exact one, but one which requires a lot of thought, and help from others, and all they seem to do is doubt and condemn.
I know that I have not been the clearest of people and that is down to the fact I am confused and now with some of the responses on here I feel even more confused am aware that some of you age very high calibre and experience people and I respect that, but I was looking for advice and found it in small quantities as the majority got caught up in the minor details.
Again I’ll ask for a moderator to close this thread as it's not getting anyone anywhere.
I know that I have not been the clearest of people and that is down to the fact I am confused and now with some of the responses on here I feel even more confused am aware that some of you age very high calibre and experience people and I respect that, but I was looking for advice and found it in small quantities as the majority got caught up in the minor details.
Again I’ll ask for a moderator to close this thread as it's not getting anyone anywhere.
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Has a law been passed recently that Universities can only offer English as a subject choice????????? So you dont like Macbeth , well hay heres a thought study something else YAY!!! Result ! You have a passion for flying , excellent but your not willing to throw away a commision for it ????? Doesnt sound very passionate to me . Commisions are not the be all and end all .
Last bit of advice I think anyone should offer you . At almost every interview for flying jobs especially ab-initio , Sponsorships , part sponsorships , JN Somers Scholarships , CTC , RAF etc etc etc one of the criteria they always have is " Must have passion for aviation and how can you evidence this ?"
I dohbt very much the reply "Yeh im really passionate about it and I can afford to do it independantly but Im gonna wait and see if I get FC then ATCO then NCOa then RAFREGT then whatever etc etc and if I cant get them I ll wait till im forty then give it a bash , you see if that aint evidence of passion I dont know what is .
You go mate no one I know at Flight school who has given up everything and gone into debt living in caravans and eating Tesco value beans to achieve their goal has nearly as much passion as you . youll go far
Last bit of advice I think anyone should offer you . At almost every interview for flying jobs especially ab-initio , Sponsorships , part sponsorships , JN Somers Scholarships , CTC , RAF etc etc etc one of the criteria they always have is " Must have passion for aviation and how can you evidence this ?"
I dohbt very much the reply "Yeh im really passionate about it and I can afford to do it independantly but Im gonna wait and see if I get FC then ATCO then NCOa then RAFREGT then whatever etc etc and if I cant get them I ll wait till im forty then give it a bash , you see if that aint evidence of passion I dont know what is .
You go mate no one I know at Flight school who has given up everything and gone into debt living in caravans and eating Tesco value beans to achieve their goal has nearly as much passion as you . youll go far
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It's comments like above that are unnecessary, if I had wanted a someone to have a dig I would of asked for it, but instead I asked for help and got it from a minority, thank you to those few. I have explained myself countless times but people still keep saying the same things and I can't understand why?
I can see your point about "throwing it away" as you so elegantly put it, but do you not think that to turn down the RAF now that I would be "throwing it away"? I don't know how many of you have been through the RAF's selection process but I wouldn't say it was easy, so to through away a job offer in order to train as for another with no guarenteed job at the end seems a little silly if you think about it.some of you have said you had to wait several years after competition of your training to get a job, how did you survive being in debt for those years? Because I would really like to know because that seems like the biggest worry to me right now. I do not want to get in to debt at anytime in my life let alone at the start of it.
You have all had to make similar decisions at some point to get to where you are just remember that.
I can see your point about "throwing it away" as you so elegantly put it, but do you not think that to turn down the RAF now that I would be "throwing it away"? I don't know how many of you have been through the RAF's selection process but I wouldn't say it was easy, so to through away a job offer in order to train as for another with no guarenteed job at the end seems a little silly if you think about it.some of you have said you had to wait several years after competition of your training to get a job, how did you survive being in debt for those years? Because I would really like to know because that seems like the biggest worry to me right now. I do not want to get in to debt at anytime in my life let alone at the start of it.
You have all had to make similar decisions at some point to get to where you are just remember that.
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...so to throw away a job offer in order to train for another with no guarenteed job at the end seems a little silly if you think about it.some of you have said you had to wait several years after competition of your training to get a job, how did you survive being in debt for those years? Because I would really like to know because that seems like the biggest worry to me right now. I do not want to get in to debt at anytime in my life let alone at the start of it.
You have a PPL - if you still don't want it that badly now, you probably 'aint gonna get to the top of the mountain anyway...don't waste your time or money...enjoy your basic training!
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my 2p worth :)
Hey AWACS_bhoy,
I just wondered, it says you're only 17, and sure the last time I had a look through lasors you had to be 17 for PPL issue, so... assuming you passed in say approx 60 hours or something, you now have over 220 hours was it, plus have completed an IMC rating too. Thats a heck of alot of flying in less than a year, and living and flying in scotland too, I know the weather especially at the start of this year has been awful and certainly the flying club im with anyway havent had too many flyable days until recently. So at the same time as building those hours, being at school and gaining a B in advanced higher maths, thats a pretty tight and hectic schedule!!
(again apologies I could be wrong, you could have done many hours with ATC etc whatever im sure I will corrected if Ive picked it up wrong
)
But my point anyway, you've obviously worked hard to build your hours while being at school etc and obviously love flying as you must have had to dedicate all your weekends/holidays to do it. Your first post states that it has been your lifelong ambition to become an airline pilot... well you're in a fantastic position to do that right now!! Forget 20 years time!
No one knows what the markets going to be like then so no one can tell you a definite yes or no as to whether you will get a job or not.
I do sympathise that you're confused about which road to take and 17 is still young to make such a life changing decision, but at the the same time its what YOU want to do that counts, it doesnt matter what anyone on heres opinion is, or your family/school etc, do what option you feel you would be happiest in.
I think thats the only reason folk on here are getting frustrated as it stated in your post that an airline pilot is your lifelong ambition, and with 220 hours/IMC/good grades and only 17, I think you're post should have been titled 'Can anyone recommend a good school for CPL/IR?' not something about airline jobs when you're in your forties!!
Anyway I dont know if thats been any help whatsoever but I hope you make the right decision and it all works out in the end
I just wondered, it says you're only 17, and sure the last time I had a look through lasors you had to be 17 for PPL issue, so... assuming you passed in say approx 60 hours or something, you now have over 220 hours was it, plus have completed an IMC rating too. Thats a heck of alot of flying in less than a year, and living and flying in scotland too, I know the weather especially at the start of this year has been awful and certainly the flying club im with anyway havent had too many flyable days until recently. So at the same time as building those hours, being at school and gaining a B in advanced higher maths, thats a pretty tight and hectic schedule!!
(again apologies I could be wrong, you could have done many hours with ATC etc whatever im sure I will corrected if Ive picked it up wrong
)But my point anyway, you've obviously worked hard to build your hours while being at school etc and obviously love flying as you must have had to dedicate all your weekends/holidays to do it. Your first post states that it has been your lifelong ambition to become an airline pilot... well you're in a fantastic position to do that right now!! Forget 20 years time!
No one knows what the markets going to be like then so no one can tell you a definite yes or no as to whether you will get a job or not.
I do sympathise that you're confused about which road to take and 17 is still young to make such a life changing decision, but at the the same time its what YOU want to do that counts, it doesnt matter what anyone on heres opinion is, or your family/school etc, do what option you feel you would be happiest in.
I think thats the only reason folk on here are getting frustrated as it stated in your post that an airline pilot is your lifelong ambition, and with 220 hours/IMC/good grades and only 17, I think you're post should have been titled 'Can anyone recommend a good school for CPL/IR?' not something about airline jobs when you're in your forties!!
Anyway I dont know if thats been any help whatsoever but I hope you make the right decision and it all works out in the end
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After reading this post I can't believe the negative and bitterly pedantic attitude taken by some people regarding a simple advice-seeking question.
My advice to you AWACS , is that this site is only one source of "help" with regard to becoming a pilot and take everything on this site with a pinch of salt. Do more research elsewhere to get a better understanding of the industry/job.
I think its difficult for someone rejected from becoming a military pilot (for whatever reason). As they are the type, who wants the military lifestyle (sports, adventure, etc) and also wants to fly.
Its a hard decision what alternate future to choose. In reality, you can't have anything, and you have to choose one dream, don't count on getting the other.
You are naive to be thinking about what you will be doing at 40. You should only really think about 10yrs ahead.
Im in a similar position to you and am going for the business jet pilot dream. After literally 6years (at college and uni) of thinking, have I decided I want the pilot dream, and will let the miltary lifestyle dream of adventure go.
If the loan is the main thing putting you off becoming a pilot, then I would say don't worry about it. As you get older you realise more the importance and need for loans. You can't always have the money at hand when you want/need it.
It may seem scary with all scaremongering going around these days about debt, but it is manageable for someone on a good salary and good with money/saving. I like to think for the £10-20K you over-pay the banks in interest, the high salary, exciting job and lifestyle will more than make up for it.
Good luck with whatever you do, don't make rash decisions and leave your options open.
My advice to you AWACS , is that this site is only one source of "help" with regard to becoming a pilot and take everything on this site with a pinch of salt. Do more research elsewhere to get a better understanding of the industry/job.
I think its difficult for someone rejected from becoming a military pilot (for whatever reason). As they are the type, who wants the military lifestyle (sports, adventure, etc) and also wants to fly.
Its a hard decision what alternate future to choose. In reality, you can't have anything, and you have to choose one dream, don't count on getting the other.
You are naive to be thinking about what you will be doing at 40. You should only really think about 10yrs ahead.
Im in a similar position to you and am going for the business jet pilot dream. After literally 6years (at college and uni) of thinking, have I decided I want the pilot dream, and will let the miltary lifestyle dream of adventure go.
If the loan is the main thing putting you off becoming a pilot, then I would say don't worry about it. As you get older you realise more the importance and need for loans. You can't always have the money at hand when you want/need it.
It may seem scary with all scaremongering going around these days about debt, but it is manageable for someone on a good salary and good with money/saving. I like to think for the £10-20K you over-pay the banks in interest, the high salary, exciting job and lifestyle will more than make up for it.
Good luck with whatever you do, don't make rash decisions and leave your options open.
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Tom a
Simple is exactly what it is not. Confused, illogical, nonsense or naieve. Even bollocks. But not simple. And trust me, he is getting very good and truthful advice. It's just not quite what he wanted to hear.
Colette, a very good point. It is very tight to fit in an IMC and over 150 hours into one of the worst winters for years. Especially for a 17 y/o at school. Very tight. And £20 per hour. Wet. You would be forgiven for thinking he's talking bollocks. Which he is, of course.
The reason people (myself included) have responded with quite forceful views is because we have all been there, know how difficult it is, and don't want someone to make the mistake of 'missing out' when they are in a near perfect position to realise their dream. However, we all made one assumption. That AWACS bhoy is being truthful. A little confused and potty, but ultimately truthful. Well, I suspect he is not. And in doing so, wasting our time.
AWACS bhoy, if you are being honest, you are a loon. An extermely rich, fortumate one who flys more often than all the full time instuctors I know (for £20 per hour) whilst still at school. But still a loon. If youre lying, you are sad. 23 years in a dark room is probably the best thing for you.
EK
I can't believe the negative and bitterly pedantic attitude taken by some people regarding a simple advice-seeking question.
Colette, a very good point. It is very tight to fit in an IMC and over 150 hours into one of the worst winters for years. Especially for a 17 y/o at school. Very tight. And £20 per hour. Wet. You would be forgiven for thinking he's talking bollocks. Which he is, of course.
The reason people (myself included) have responded with quite forceful views is because we have all been there, know how difficult it is, and don't want someone to make the mistake of 'missing out' when they are in a near perfect position to realise their dream. However, we all made one assumption. That AWACS bhoy is being truthful. A little confused and potty, but ultimately truthful. Well, I suspect he is not. And in doing so, wasting our time.
AWACS bhoy, if you are being honest, you are a loon. An extermely rich, fortumate one who flys more often than all the full time instuctors I know (for £20 per hour) whilst still at school. But still a loon. If youre lying, you are sad. 23 years in a dark room is probably the best thing for you.
EK
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Colette and Tom a thank you so much I was about to give up all hope with people on this forum, but now I know there are people out there who are actually willing to help.
with regards to the hours I’ve clocked up I took 52 hours to complete my PPL,I have done 2 different flying scholarships with the ATC both the ACPNS (Air Cadet Pilot Nav.) and the standard ACPS (Air Cadet Pilot) so that equates to 25 hours, then I am also a flight staff cadet with 12 AEF at RAF Leuchars where I have got 1 hour of flying every Sunday for the last 9 months, well minus a couple of Sundays for obvious reasons. Then for the first 6 weeks after I completed my PPL I flew every Saturday morning usually 2 hours at a time because all I wanted to do was fly as soon as I had got my wings. So hopefully that will clear up any doubts as to how I have got such a high number of hours to date.
Yes tom it is the biggest thing I have always been so careful with money- (wait for it "so careful?" you've wasted £13K on pointless flying) I can almost put £13K on who I think will be the first person to criticise this claim-but yea I don't want to be in debt at such an early stage of my life.
It is pretty gutting to be told something like that. The reason was I was too tall in the sitting height therefore was deemed unfit for commissioned aircrew.
Thanks again Colette and Tom for being understanding and actually realising I was asking a simple question, I appreciate it.
with regards to the hours I’ve clocked up I took 52 hours to complete my PPL,I have done 2 different flying scholarships with the ATC both the ACPNS (Air Cadet Pilot Nav.) and the standard ACPS (Air Cadet Pilot) so that equates to 25 hours, then I am also a flight staff cadet with 12 AEF at RAF Leuchars where I have got 1 hour of flying every Sunday for the last 9 months, well minus a couple of Sundays for obvious reasons. Then for the first 6 weeks after I completed my PPL I flew every Saturday morning usually 2 hours at a time because all I wanted to do was fly as soon as I had got my wings. So hopefully that will clear up any doubts as to how I have got such a high number of hours to date.
If the loan is the main thing putting you off becoming a pilot
I think its difficult for someone rejected from becoming a military pilot (for whatever reason).
Thanks again Colette and Tom for being understanding and actually realising I was asking a simple question, I appreciate it.
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AWACS, if I may, the reason you are a catalyst for hostile posts is that ultimately we can't see your problem. It's something you've invented for yourself.
Look - you're incredibly young and yet you already have bags of flying.
You say that your ambition has always been to be an airline pilot.
Then you tell us you've got just about enough money to self-finance your CPL/IR right now!!
If you really want to be a pilot, then do it!!
Back in the days when people could come up for a cockpit visit there was a particular type who'd appear every now and then...the "I wanted to be a pilot but never got the chance like you guys" type. The implication being that somehow we'd been handed this wonderful job on a plate. With a little digging of course you usually found they'd been in a better position to be a pilot initially than us sitting there doing the job - but the point is - they didn't do it! But still they'd bleat on "if only I'd got the chance......" Of course, there are those to whom this genuinely does apply, but I'm trying to make a point, so bear with me.
And that is? Well, to try and demonstrate to you why we're getting irritated. We don't like people saying they've always dreamed of being a pilot when it's obvious to us that's not quite true.
Let me put it another way. Those of us earning a living as pilots know how hard it is to get here on the whole (always one or two jammy stories).
There's a certain assumption in your question that all you have to do is want to be an airline pilot and it'll happen. That's how it comes across. And generally it's just not the way things work.
There may not be an airline job for you in twenty years. That's why, if you really, really want to be a pilot, then common sense dictates that you can't possibly wait. The chances are, if you wait, you won't be an airline pilot. That's how life is. You get knocked off course by factors out of your control.
Sort of like wanting to be a rock musician but deciding to be an accountant for twenty years first.
It just plain and simple makes no sense.
Certainly not to those of us who've been through the whole thing.
Look - you're incredibly young and yet you already have bags of flying.
You say that your ambition has always been to be an airline pilot.
Then you tell us you've got just about enough money to self-finance your CPL/IR right now!!
If you really want to be a pilot, then do it!!
Back in the days when people could come up for a cockpit visit there was a particular type who'd appear every now and then...the "I wanted to be a pilot but never got the chance like you guys" type. The implication being that somehow we'd been handed this wonderful job on a plate. With a little digging of course you usually found they'd been in a better position to be a pilot initially than us sitting there doing the job - but the point is - they didn't do it! But still they'd bleat on "if only I'd got the chance......" Of course, there are those to whom this genuinely does apply, but I'm trying to make a point, so bear with me.
And that is? Well, to try and demonstrate to you why we're getting irritated. We don't like people saying they've always dreamed of being a pilot when it's obvious to us that's not quite true.
Let me put it another way. Those of us earning a living as pilots know how hard it is to get here on the whole (always one or two jammy stories).
There's a certain assumption in your question that all you have to do is want to be an airline pilot and it'll happen. That's how it comes across. And generally it's just not the way things work.
There may not be an airline job for you in twenty years. That's why, if you really, really want to be a pilot, then common sense dictates that you can't possibly wait. The chances are, if you wait, you won't be an airline pilot. That's how life is. You get knocked off course by factors out of your control.
Sort of like wanting to be a rock musician but deciding to be an accountant for twenty years first.
It just plain and simple makes no sense.
Certainly not to those of us who've been through the whole thing.
Last edited by Maximum; 9th May 2008 at 18:58.
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AWACS bhoy - youre right to put the 13k on me saying that. Thats because it is so obvious. You have wasted that money. Bizzare.
Why are you banging on about a loan? You don't need to get a loan. You have, apparantly, got £20k in the bank. More than enough. Bizzare.
The hours you have given only come out to around 120 or so (52+25+30+12). 100 hours short of the 220 you claim. Bizzare.
EK
Why are you banging on about a loan? You don't need to get a loan. You have, apparantly, got £20k in the bank. More than enough. Bizzare.
The hours you have given only come out to around 120 or so (52+25+30+12). 100 hours short of the 220 you claim. Bizzare.
EK