Twin hours light aircraft experience, your views.
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Twin hours light aircraft experience, your views.
Twin hours
Can I ask how many people would jump at the chance of getting some twin hour experience if they were offered a job, lets say flying an Aztec doing some light aircraft charter work and being offered payment for doing so.
Would be interested in how many of you would view this as good experience and how many of you would want to do it.
Can I also ask how many of you that now fly large commercial jet and at one point during your career flew light twin engine aircrafts. What types of jobs you had flying light twins etc etc etc
How do many of you view flying light twin engine aircraft and how important do you think it is in helping make you look more attractive to that ultimate job.
Can I ask how many people would jump at the chance of getting some twin hour experience if they were offered a job, lets say flying an Aztec doing some light aircraft charter work and being offered payment for doing so.
Would be interested in how many of you would view this as good experience and how many of you would want to do it.
Can I also ask how many of you that now fly large commercial jet and at one point during your career flew light twin engine aircrafts. What types of jobs you had flying light twins etc etc etc
How do many of you view flying light twin engine aircraft and how important do you think it is in helping make you look more attractive to that ultimate job.
Last edited by EGCC4284; 11th Sep 2007 at 10:05.
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Defo - As an FI with all the ticks, bells and whistles I am looking for as many twin hours as possible.
Look at the job adverts many want twin hours.
I would jump at the chance, including re-locating.
Regards
TOP
Look at the job adverts many want twin hours.
I would jump at the chance, including re-locating.
Regards
TOP
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I can't understand why the question is being asked 
As TOP said, most airline job adverts are looking for 200+ / 500+ Multi hours, If I was in this situation I wouldn't need to give it a second thought. Getting paid to fly twins
As TOP said, most airline job adverts are looking for 200+ / 500+ Multi hours, If I was in this situation I wouldn't need to give it a second thought. Getting paid to fly twins
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There is a very very important reason as to why I am asking the question which I will explain at a later date.
I would like to hear as many views as possible with regards to how twin hours would make you more attractive to gaining employment with the big aircraft operators or whether people think this is just a myth.
I would also like to hear what sort of twin hour light aircraft job guys and girls have done before there big break into a Turbo Prop or Jet job
There is a very very important reason why I am asking these questions and I will reveal all at a later date.
Would appreciate if anyone can turn this into a POLL thread asking the question Who thinks its important to try and get twin hours in order to make themselves more attractive to employment.
I don't know how to make a POLL thread.
Thanks Rob
I would like to hear as many views as possible with regards to how twin hours would make you more attractive to gaining employment with the big aircraft operators or whether people think this is just a myth.
I would also like to hear what sort of twin hour light aircraft job guys and girls have done before there big break into a Turbo Prop or Jet job
There is a very very important reason why I am asking these questions and I will reveal all at a later date.
Would appreciate if anyone can turn this into a POLL thread asking the question Who thinks its important to try and get twin hours in order to make themselves more attractive to employment.
I don't know how to make a POLL thread.
Thanks Rob
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Define large jet? Why large jet?
Yes, I have quite a few hours on piston twins and yes, now a captain on a jet. Albeit not a large one but I'd hazard a guess I do more challenging flying.
Twin flying was bush charter and scenic along with specialist mission work.
Any experience in a commercial operation is good. If you're being paid to fly and to make command decisions, the experience is invaluable.
If the difference means you have 500 hours versus 250 hours, then go for it.
Yes, I have quite a few hours on piston twins and yes, now a captain on a jet. Albeit not a large one but I'd hazard a guess I do more challenging flying.
Twin flying was bush charter and scenic along with specialist mission work.
Any experience in a commercial operation is good. If you're being paid to fly and to make command decisions, the experience is invaluable.
If the difference means you have 500 hours versus 250 hours, then go for it.
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Twin Hours
I would definitely go for it. As an older FATPL I get by-passed by age-ist HR departments who ignore my 1300 + SEP hours and prefer a raw 250 hr integrated cadet who's advantage is youth but can't handle a crosswind and will soon bugger off to BA. (sorry if I sound bitter.)
If I had some twin hours there are operators who I know would take me on. I'm in the process of building those but it's a hard slog.
Best of luck and go for it. Aztec? old bird but queen of the skies.
If I had some twin hours there are operators who I know would take me on. I'm in the process of building those but it's a hard slog.
Best of luck and go for it. Aztec? old bird but queen of the skies.
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There is a very very important reason why I am asking these questions and I will reveal all at a later date.
I know of several guys who flew air taxi at Ravenair, and now all fly jets, some were on T/Ps to start with but soon moved on.
As mentioned the experiance in a commercial environment is invaluable, command descisions, commercial awareness, willing to bat off in the middle of the night in all weather, character building stuff.
Snap there hand off if its offered, it will stand you head and shoulders above the average 250 hours recently qualified people.
Hard work, but will be well worth it, god knows how many people are out there who would love the chance to be paid to fly and build twin hours.
Not only all the above, but your in the system and on the ladder to success, who knows who you will meet on your travels, networking and building contacts within the industry.
And Ravenair know they are a stepping stone for newbies to the trade and are generally very supportive if a airline chance comes along.
Thats if it is Ravenair?
best of luck..
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Legally they can be done with little twin time. The problem is the job is actually very difficult, so most companies ask for 40 hours IFR as P1 in a twin, same as is required for single-crew certificated aircraft. We do as a rule. As it is at the moment if you came to me with a fair few hours and an interesting background and you could convince me of your abiolity to fly and to operate an aircraft then I would consider taking you on, whatever the twin time. We even take on very occasional newbies, but only locals as they are expected to be low-paid pilots' assistant/ops assistants initially, doing only non-revenue flying and otherwise being the office and ramp gopher.
The reason for our taking on selected lower-hour pilots answers what I think is the underlying question - will it help me get a good job? Our pilots move on, and we always need more. They have little trouble getting jobs in airlines, and those that stay a year or so get good captaincy experience that will certainly help in their future selection for command. That is experience that so many FOs lack nowadays, many having never even signed for an aircraft without an instructor countersigning it!
The reason for our taking on selected lower-hour pilots answers what I think is the underlying question - will it help me get a good job? Our pilots move on, and we always need more. They have little trouble getting jobs in airlines, and those that stay a year or so get good captaincy experience that will certainly help in their future selection for command. That is experience that so many FOs lack nowadays, many having never even signed for an aircraft without an instructor countersigning it!
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If you are at the beginning of you career and age is on your side, then ask yourself why did you want to be a pilot?
If you want to fly, do your self a favour and take the twin job. If you want to program an FMC and an autopilot, leave the twin job to somebody that actually wants to fly and join the rest of the sheep.
If you want to fly, do your self a favour and take the twin job. If you want to program an FMC and an autopilot, leave the twin job to somebody that actually wants to fly and join the rest of the sheep.
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Fair comment Snoop, but you won't find tons of people who fly light twins for life and never transition up to button pushing cozy flight decks.
In response to the original poster, getting twin hours and some twin PIC time in a commercial op can only help your profile. I think I am safe in saying that light twin flying, which can often be cargo etc, is VERY demanding, all the more so if you are single pilot IFR op'd (Beech...care to confirm?!) I was lucky enough to rack up 800 hours combined in FO/PIC roles on a PA31 where we operated two crew (due to local area terrain, aka mountainous) and the command decision experience learning curve was huge. Hopefully it will be a selling point once I have finished my ATPL licence conversion here in the UK.
If you can get in with a company, even as FO or part time ground duties to build those hours, then go for it. You certainly have your work cut out in a light twin when the wx are down in the wee dark hours, but you'll come out better for it.
Best of luck!
In response to the original poster, getting twin hours and some twin PIC time in a commercial op can only help your profile. I think I am safe in saying that light twin flying, which can often be cargo etc, is VERY demanding, all the more so if you are single pilot IFR op'd (Beech...care to confirm?!) I was lucky enough to rack up 800 hours combined in FO/PIC roles on a PA31 where we operated two crew (due to local area terrain, aka mountainous) and the command decision experience learning curve was huge. Hopefully it will be a selling point once I have finished my ATPL licence conversion here in the UK.
If you can get in with a company, even as FO or part time ground duties to build those hours, then go for it. You certainly have your work cut out in a light twin when the wx are down in the wee dark hours, but you'll come out better for it.
Best of luck!
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Having flown a fair bit of light-twin myself (500+hrs ME and most of it P1), I'm not so sure about the value of those hours any more.
The better part of them in a BN2 and para-ops, but also a fair amount of IFR P1.
Most of the operators I've been in contact with, frown at the hours built in para-ops, and honestly, I can't understand why!?
At times it is much harder to stand firm in your professional and safe attitude towards flying, in an enviroment that is notoriously "drop-zone-minded", than it is when you're working together with other pro's.
Skydivers have a tendency to be a little "relaxed", when it comes to making that go/no-go decision and putting safety first.
( Free-flyers are the worst!
Especially those that exit in a head-down and stay that way until it's time to pull. )
Now, don't get me wrong here....
Para-flying is great fun, but you can't make a living out of it!
It can also be, contrary to popular belief, a demanding type of flying. Especially if it's in a larger para-club, with a long list of jumpers, waiting for their slot.
They usually don't look kindly on delays,....no matter the reason!!
P.S Should anyone have an idea of any operator in need of drivers, please feel free to PM me!!
(I fulfill the SP IFR req's, and then some!) D.S
The better part of them in a BN2 and para-ops, but also a fair amount of IFR P1.
Most of the operators I've been in contact with, frown at the hours built in para-ops, and honestly, I can't understand why!?
At times it is much harder to stand firm in your professional and safe attitude towards flying, in an enviroment that is notoriously "drop-zone-minded", than it is when you're working together with other pro's.
Skydivers have a tendency to be a little "relaxed", when it comes to making that go/no-go decision and putting safety first.
( Free-flyers are the worst!
Especially those that exit in a head-down and stay that way until it's time to pull. )Now, don't get me wrong here....
Para-flying is great fun, but you can't make a living out of it!
It can also be, contrary to popular belief, a demanding type of flying. Especially if it's in a larger para-club, with a long list of jumpers, waiting for their slot.
They usually don't look kindly on delays,....no matter the reason!!
P.S Should anyone have an idea of any operator in need of drivers, please feel free to PM me!!
(I fulfill the SP IFR req's, and then some!) D.S
Last edited by FlyingNikonian; 15th Sep 2007 at 14:49.
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Finals19
I can certainly confirm that! When the autopilot goes tech in flight you know why your earning better money than your contemporaries flying FO on a turboprop or a bizjet. I would also expect you to find your hours there a selling point, if my colleagues' cases are anything to go by. No-one has any trouble getting another job, some pass tough sim rides with ease others even have their sim rides waived. We know that most pilots only stay about a year in this sector, so they usually go with our blessing and very good references.
I can certainly confirm that! When the autopilot goes tech in flight you know why your earning better money than your contemporaries flying FO on a turboprop or a bizjet. I would also expect you to find your hours there a selling point, if my colleagues' cases are anything to go by. No-one has any trouble getting another job, some pass tough sim rides with ease others even have their sim rides waived. We know that most pilots only stay about a year in this sector, so they usually go with our blessing and very good references.
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Take the job flying the twin.
It will only be of benefit to you in the future.
A good grounding in instrument flying will pay huge dividends.
I fly a big jet and my standby instruments are very small. If I were to need to use them I am glad that I have about 1000hrs on Cessna twins to fall back on.
It is a concern of mine that new F/O's with a couple of hundred hours start flying these fancy jet without the basics of instrument flying. After all the EFIS screens go dark what are they going to rely on?
Hopefully some experience
Good luck with the new job.
It will only be of benefit to you in the future.
A good grounding in instrument flying will pay huge dividends.
I fly a big jet and my standby instruments are very small. If I were to need to use them I am glad that I have about 1000hrs on Cessna twins to fall back on.
It is a concern of mine that new F/O's with a couple of hundred hours start flying these fancy jet without the basics of instrument flying. After all the EFIS screens go dark what are they going to rely on?
Hopefully some experience
Good luck with the new job.
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You should fly what ever you can when ever you can. just forget, for a moment at least employment, when you do get to fly big jets you will wish for small piston engines I do. I am currently a Captain on A340-500 and -600 and wish for smaller planes and more interesting flying. However, I know this is where the money is. all I'm saying is fly what comes along until you get a good first step on the ladder and enjoy it.
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My aviation career summary;
2003-2005: Integrated ATPL course
2005-2006: Photoflights, sightseeing flighs, ferry fligts on SEP(L)
2006-2007: Flight Instruction, Taxi/schedules flights SEP(L) and MEP(L)
2007- ? : FO Turboprop (Fk50) - bonding (company covered expenses)
MEP(L) type was Britten Norman Islander. I was PIC on scheduled flights to small Islands (short rwy's and only VMC approaches.)
The hours gained on this proved valuable for getting my TP job. It is confidence building on flight deck as well as in an interview situation.
Good luck whatever you do.
By the way; It is a nice feeling when you have something else than "school experience" to talk to your captain about!
Br. Michael
2003-2005: Integrated ATPL course
2005-2006: Photoflights, sightseeing flighs, ferry fligts on SEP(L)
2006-2007: Flight Instruction, Taxi/schedules flights SEP(L) and MEP(L)
2007- ? : FO Turboprop (Fk50) - bonding (company covered expenses)
MEP(L) type was Britten Norman Islander. I was PIC on scheduled flights to small Islands (short rwy's and only VMC approaches.)
The hours gained on this proved valuable for getting my TP job. It is confidence building on flight deck as well as in an interview situation.
Good luck whatever you do.
By the way; It is a nice feeling when you have something else than "school experience" to talk to your captain about!
Br. Michael
Of course any aspiring commercial pilot will grab with both hands any opportunity to fly a twin. To purchase an hour costs hundreds of pounds. To be able to fly a twin and record that in your logbook for no or little cost is worth hundreds of pounds per hour in experience.
Plus it is exciting and it is interesting. It adds to your range of abilities and skills as a pilot. Flying a twin engine aircraft after flying only singles feels like a big step up on the ladder. Which it is.
If anyone offers you the chance to fly a twin even if it is just a few circuits post maintenance or maybe a short navigation trip to a nearby airfield then you should not hesitate to grab that opportunity. Occasionally twins do need to be moved over greater distances and such ferry trips can allow a good few hours to be logged for free. Just remember that you cannot accept payment unless you hold a Commercial license. A bottle of wine for your trouble if not unknown though.
Cheers
WWW
Plus it is exciting and it is interesting. It adds to your range of abilities and skills as a pilot. Flying a twin engine aircraft after flying only singles feels like a big step up on the ladder. Which it is.
If anyone offers you the chance to fly a twin even if it is just a few circuits post maintenance or maybe a short navigation trip to a nearby airfield then you should not hesitate to grab that opportunity. Occasionally twins do need to be moved over greater distances and such ferry trips can allow a good few hours to be logged for free. Just remember that you cannot accept payment unless you hold a Commercial license. A bottle of wine for your trouble if not unknown though.
Cheers
WWW