Air Taxi Experience Requirements
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Air Taxi Experience Requirements
Hi all,
I understand that to fly single pilot multi-engine IFR public transport flights (ie air taxi) there is a requirement to have something like 700 hrs total time with 100 multi?
Does anybody know where this comes from? is it a CAA rule? (have tried searching their website but as usual its impossible to find anything u look for on there), or is it some kind of general rule made up by the air taxi firms or their insurers?
I understand that to fly single pilot multi-engine IFR public transport flights (ie air taxi) there is a requirement to have something like 700 hrs total time with 100 multi?
Does anybody know where this comes from? is it a CAA rule? (have tried searching their website but as usual its impossible to find anything u look for on there), or is it some kind of general rule made up by the air taxi firms or their insurers?
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hows about single pilot single engine IFR in something like a cessna caravan? Does the same rule apply?
ok, so 700 hrs, could get that through instructing fairly easily I suppose but 100 hours multi? Where on earth r u sopposed to get them from? Can u count the dual stuff u did on ur mep rating and IR?
ok, so 700 hrs, could get that through instructing fairly easily I suppose but 100 hours multi? Where on earth r u sopposed to get them from? Can u count the dual stuff u did on ur mep rating and IR?
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It's not in JAR-OPS. It is a mistake in LASORS (requirement is only for certain types of multi-crew aircraft when operated single-crew). There are hours requirements, but not that high, although in practice to do the job the experience is often needed - I certainly had those hours when I started. It is not an easy business at all!
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Depends if they ask for 100hrs Multi PIC. If it's just the hours then your ME and IR will count, if they ask for PIC you can only use the skills tests as thats the only flights from the course you log as PIC.
Horgy
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I thought it wasnt possible to fly commercial single engine IFR Operations in the UK.
I understand that to fly single pilot multi-engine IFR public transport flights (ie air taxi) there is a requirement to have something like 700 hrs total time with 100 multi?
Best regards
MP
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When I was doing it, a couple of years ago, it was 700TT 100 ME of which 40 must be P1 IFR. Its not easy to get these days!!! That is for Public Transport ops and not Aerial work! The only sensible way to build it up is through aerial work stuff.
It will be in the FCL section of JAR ops and is/was a mandatory requirement. I commend any of you that are going down that route! It is hard work and not easy flying but totally rewarding.
Good Luck!
It will be in the FCL section of JAR ops and is/was a mandatory requirement. I commend any of you that are going down that route! It is hard work and not easy flying but totally rewarding.
Good Luck!
Educated Hillbilly
A few comment, the JAR ops requirement is 700 total with 40 multi p1 IFR. One company in the UK does have a concesion to operate single pilot with 400 tt and 40 p1 multi.
Cessna Caravan; does the same rule apply? no it doesn't becasue in the UK and most of Europe you cannot use a single engine turboprop for public transport AOC work under IFR (although they have been campaigning for years to have the single engine IFR ban lifted). Some countries do allow freight work with single turboprops.
Most "aerial work" on a twin would be day VFR (ie: survey or para dropping, therefore wouldn't meet the requirements for 40 p1 multi IFR).
So the options for flying the multi time are either hiring a twin in the US, or getting pilot assistant work in the UK and flying dead legs/empty sectors (both these options I am currently looking at).
Mercenary Pilot: Why do you consider the 700/40 multi unrealistic? I think the requirement is very sensible.
Cessna Caravan; does the same rule apply? no it doesn't becasue in the UK and most of Europe you cannot use a single engine turboprop for public transport AOC work under IFR (although they have been campaigning for years to have the single engine IFR ban lifted). Some countries do allow freight work with single turboprops.
Most "aerial work" on a twin would be day VFR (ie: survey or para dropping, therefore wouldn't meet the requirements for 40 p1 multi IFR).
So the options for flying the multi time are either hiring a twin in the US, or getting pilot assistant work in the UK and flying dead legs/empty sectors (both these options I am currently looking at).
Mercenary Pilot: Why do you consider the 700/40 multi unrealistic? I think the requirement is very sensible.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 7th Aug 2007 at 17:03.
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Most "aerial work" on a twin would be day VFR (ie: survey or para dropping, therefore wouldn't meet the requirements for 40 p1 multi IFR).
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JAR-OPS is does not specify 700 hours. That is an error in LASORs! It is a figure for flying single-crew in multi-crew aircraft certificated for single crew operations. It is also incorporated in many companies' ops manuals, making it mandatory for those operations.
I believe you can operate single-engine under IFR in the UK, just not in IMC or at night. This is such a restriction that single-engine operations are not viable under an AOC.
Portsharbourflyer
Don't get confused between VFR/IFR and VMC/IMC. While most aerial work is indeed in VMC, due to airspace restrictions often has to be flown under IFR, at least in the UK. VFR is not allowed in class A airspace, and special VFR clearance is not given except in Jersey and Heathrow zones.
I believe you can operate single-engine under IFR in the UK, just not in IMC or at night. This is such a restriction that single-engine operations are not viable under an AOC.
Portsharbourflyer
Don't get confused between VFR/IFR and VMC/IMC. While most aerial work is indeed in VMC, due to airspace restrictions often has to be flown under IFR, at least in the UK. VFR is not allowed in class A airspace, and special VFR clearance is not given except in Jersey and Heathrow zones.
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Full information can be found in JAR-OPS 1.960
As for the requirements applied to Captains with a CPL operating a multi engined aircraft under IFR in commercial air service, the minimum is indeed 700Hrs, reduced to 500Hrs for VFR ops.
Latest version of JAR-OPS1 can be found on www.jaa.nl
Happy flying!
5 Rings
As for the requirements applied to Captains with a CPL operating a multi engined aircraft under IFR in commercial air service, the minimum is indeed 700Hrs, reduced to 500Hrs for VFR ops.
Latest version of JAR-OPS1 can be found on www.jaa.nl
Happy flying!
5 Rings
Educated Hillbilly
L a B and Buzz,
Yes I stand corrected and as you say you can fly IFR in VMC. Also I would assume positioning flights to a survey location may also be flown IFR even if the survey itself is conducted VFR in VMC.
Yes day VFR public transport is allowed in single engine aircraft, however operating public transport service in day VFR only is very limiting in the UK.
Yes I stand corrected and as you say you can fly IFR in VMC. Also I would assume positioning flights to a survey location may also be flown IFR even if the survey itself is conducted VFR in VMC.
Yes day VFR public transport is allowed in single engine aircraft, however operating public transport service in day VFR only is very limiting in the UK.
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Like Life's a Beech, this is what I do for a living. The Jar Ops 700 hour requirement is for Commanders of aircraft that would normally require a type rating but that have been certified for single crew ops.
For commercial single pilot light multi IFR you must have a CPL/IR and at least 50 hours multi IFR of which at least 10 must be P1. If you read Jar ops carefully you will understand. This has also been confirmed by our CAA AOC inspector.
Now to the real world...All commercial operators work to the rules laid down in their own particular Operations Manual. Some of these prefer to adopt (quite rightly, in my opinion) the more restrictive pre-entry requirements of 700 hours, 40 PI multi IFR in order to minimise the amount of training that would be required to get a new pilot on line. At my company a new pilot would be given max 3 hours' practice on the aircraft before having an OPC (IR Exam). This would be followed by 20 sectors of line training before being sent off alone across Europe alone in all weathers and mostly at night.
Air Taxi/Charter in light twins is a small industry in the UK. Unless you have plenty of unusual flying in your logbook, a lot of actual IFR and some decent contacts you would stand more chance of landing a sponsored position with BA than succeeding via this route.
For commercial single pilot light multi IFR you must have a CPL/IR and at least 50 hours multi IFR of which at least 10 must be P1. If you read Jar ops carefully you will understand. This has also been confirmed by our CAA AOC inspector.
Now to the real world...All commercial operators work to the rules laid down in their own particular Operations Manual. Some of these prefer to adopt (quite rightly, in my opinion) the more restrictive pre-entry requirements of 700 hours, 40 PI multi IFR in order to minimise the amount of training that would be required to get a new pilot on line. At my company a new pilot would be given max 3 hours' practice on the aircraft before having an OPC (IR Exam). This would be followed by 20 sectors of line training before being sent off alone across Europe alone in all weathers and mostly at night.
Air Taxi/Charter in light twins is a small industry in the UK. Unless you have plenty of unusual flying in your logbook, a lot of actual IFR and some decent contacts you would stand more chance of landing a sponsored position with BA than succeeding via this route.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Minimum of 700 hrs P1 is not much when you consider just how tough the work can be. Apruneuk hints at the ordeal of single pilot IFR, at night, over europe and in ****e WX but some real accounts would make for interesting reading because it's certainly not something (although eligible for) I'd ever contemplate doing taa!
VFE.
VFE.
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Centreline and Ravenair both have dispensations from the CAA to employ 400hr pilots but they stil require the multi engine IFR time and all the other tricky details. There are others such as Dragonfly and Woodgate that operate single crew aircraft as multi-crew under their AOC's, so there may be FO'ing opportunities for low houred pilots. Also much of the work conducted by charter operators is contract work i.e. regular freight runs carrying bank cheques between X and Y, not charters all over the place.
It is a small industry sector but if you have the hours and are capable of passing the base check with just an hour or so practice, the work is there. Not that many aircraft or operators, but very few pilots with the hours chasing the jobs and people moving on fast to airlines........But plenty of cowboy operators out there (see Unique Air thread in biz jets) so be very careful.
Air Taxi/Charter in light twins is a small industry in the UK. Unless you have plenty of unusual flying in your logbook, a lot of actual IFR and some decent contacts you would stand more chance of landing a sponsored position with BA than succeeding via this route.
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so does anybody have some accounts of hairy air taxi flights? would be interesting to hear. I can imagine that flying a seneca etc at night, on ur own, in the middle of a load of bad weather takes some balls, I can see why they don't let anyone do it.
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850 hours PA31 on the west coast of Canada. Typical MEA's 11-15,000ft, designated mountainous region...lets see now...
- severe icing - unforecast as such - seeing the airspeed bleed back past 130kts when our crz IAS was 170. Unable to descend due to restrictive MOCA's, but descending anyway with power on cuz' staying up there at cont 40" MP is gonna cook the engines.....
- nasty, mountain valley LOC/DME approaches. Tailwinds all the way down the approach, GS often over 200kts until a couple of hundred off the MDA resulting in butt clenching rates of descent. Add a bit of moderate ice with boots blow like a pre-historic whore (i.e. they don't) and a nice sharp angle of attack and it was a whole bundle of fun.
- knowing, that despite what the POH says, if you lose an engine at that altitude and that weight, you ain't gonna maintain altitude, let alone make the missed approach climb gradient!
- actually losing an engine - oil leak on the left side in flight, next thing flames licking out of the inspection panel as the leak worsened and spewed all over the turbo charger. Happy days!
- Gear not down and locked. Pumping it down with no nosewheel locked indication and then trying to grease her on and hold her off...no pressure there then! (in more ways than one!)
- no wx radar. Regularly in the summer trying to avoid/spot build ups, flying into embedded stuff and then watching as the world around you goes black...
Yup, Air Taxi is a real ball..........you better have some big ones too!
- severe icing - unforecast as such - seeing the airspeed bleed back past 130kts when our crz IAS was 170. Unable to descend due to restrictive MOCA's, but descending anyway with power on cuz' staying up there at cont 40" MP is gonna cook the engines.....
- nasty, mountain valley LOC/DME approaches. Tailwinds all the way down the approach, GS often over 200kts until a couple of hundred off the MDA resulting in butt clenching rates of descent. Add a bit of moderate ice with boots blow like a pre-historic whore (i.e. they don't) and a nice sharp angle of attack and it was a whole bundle of fun.
- knowing, that despite what the POH says, if you lose an engine at that altitude and that weight, you ain't gonna maintain altitude, let alone make the missed approach climb gradient!
- actually losing an engine - oil leak on the left side in flight, next thing flames licking out of the inspection panel as the leak worsened and spewed all over the turbo charger. Happy days!
- Gear not down and locked. Pumping it down with no nosewheel locked indication and then trying to grease her on and hold her off...no pressure there then! (in more ways than one!)
- no wx radar. Regularly in the summer trying to avoid/spot build ups, flying into embedded stuff and then watching as the world around you goes black...
Yup, Air Taxi is a real ball..........you better have some big ones too!
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It takes balls to say "I'm not going, the Wx is too ****". 
(Of course that comment is not aimed at the very professional charter companies mentioned in this thread whom I'm sure do not put undue pressure on their pilots to fly in unsuitable conditions)
(Of course that comment is not aimed at the very professional charter companies mentioned in this thread whom I'm sure do not put undue pressure on their pilots to fly in unsuitable conditions)
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It is not for the feint hearted, some of the guys I worked with never truly got used to their job. You have to be on the ball to say the least, an accident is a very real possibility if you dont follow the rules and exercise good airmanship. Be prepared, rehearsing an engine failure drill just once every 6 months would be foolhardy, for example, probably all the aircraft you fly will be significantly older than you! As said above, NO is usually not a good answer when there is a four grand job on the phone, you better be able to back up your decision with the weather reports that rattled your sphincter and influenced your decision not to fly! Make sure you know where the alternate air is and hope that the de-ice system does'nt look like a fifty year old inner tube thats been repaired a hundred times!! Air charter is not for everyone, but its an invaluable tool for progressing up the aviation ladder. Sometimes I wish I was back in the hotseat, great days!