So where are all the jobs then?
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Getting a flying job is all about right place, right time. The industry is cyclical but a silver lining may be that Aer Lingus are opening a Gatwick base in March. They will definitely be hiring. Year 1 f/o is about 40k and capt. is about 78k plus 7k sector which is taxed. They have taken self sponsored guys straight out of oxford and jerez and also low time turbo proppers. Losing heart is understandable but if you're not in it you can't win it.
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Hear hear!
I've trained in New Zealand. Currently drop flying and living an eight hour drive from my wife and daughter, just to get some hours (the pay certainly isn't worth it). The accepted norm here is 1500 hrs minimum TT to get into turbo-props (realistically 2500). Jets? Try 4500-5000 minimum!
Harden up & do some GA work, get some real experience and hours. It'll happen, but only if you work for it.
Harden up & do some GA work, get some real experience and hours. It'll happen, but only if you work for it.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Rincewind3, - you live in a very different aviation world to the realities of Flying career paths in Europe and the sub continent.
Telling someone from that part of the world to harden up and do some GA hours is of very little relavence over here. Maybe you should pull your head out of the sand and realise and appreciate that there is a whole world outside the NZ GA scene. I spent 5 years in GA in Australia, and now fly longhaul out of a major european city. I fly with a good mixture of guys and girls. A lot of the guys I fly with went straight into Jets with 200hrs, with the only piston aircraft flying they did was during their training. Many others went through the military, and have thousands of hours on fast jets, including flying in combat situations.
Its just a different world with different realities and opportunities. Your statement shows a degree of naiveness and narrow mindedness. I do appreciate how frustrating it is for you, hour building in NZ GA and living apart from your family - but remember, one-day you may well be sharing a flight-deck with these guys. Everyone takes a different route to get here - but in the end, it doesnt necessarily make you better or more superior to the person sitting next to you, and you may well end up being best of friends with some of these guys.....or at least have a lot of fun with them on an overnight.
Good luck to you - you will get there in the end and yes, it is worth it.....my advice, just don't make too many sacrifices along the way, with regards to your family. That time apart from them is time you will never get back.
Most of us get there in the end - and when we do, its a great level playing field.
Telling someone from that part of the world to harden up and do some GA hours is of very little relavence over here. Maybe you should pull your head out of the sand and realise and appreciate that there is a whole world outside the NZ GA scene. I spent 5 years in GA in Australia, and now fly longhaul out of a major european city. I fly with a good mixture of guys and girls. A lot of the guys I fly with went straight into Jets with 200hrs, with the only piston aircraft flying they did was during their training. Many others went through the military, and have thousands of hours on fast jets, including flying in combat situations.
Its just a different world with different realities and opportunities. Your statement shows a degree of naiveness and narrow mindedness. I do appreciate how frustrating it is for you, hour building in NZ GA and living apart from your family - but remember, one-day you may well be sharing a flight-deck with these guys. Everyone takes a different route to get here - but in the end, it doesnt necessarily make you better or more superior to the person sitting next to you, and you may well end up being best of friends with some of these guys.....or at least have a lot of fun with them on an overnight.
Good luck to you - you will get there in the end and yes, it is worth it.....my advice, just don't make too many sacrifices along the way, with regards to your family. That time apart from them is time you will never get back.
Most of us get there in the end - and when we do, its a great level playing field.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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im still at it
Me I went down a different road watching people in a higher classes then me have crap luck getting a job. So when I was taking my PPL I decided to go to community college and get in to intl business studies for a backup plan. This has not done me wrong. I have comfortable job that pays for me to get my hours and live life I suppose. All though I really want to become a pilot by trade (really badly do) it’s very important to always have a back up plan. My courses were subsidized with the college so it was not that much money. I have my CPL and all ratings. I’m always applying and won’t stop till I get that magical call... but for now i still get to enjoy flying recreationally and im fine with that for now..
Just keep at it... I live next to a B777 pilot for AA, he said it took years to get that call... he didn’t think he would make it but kept trying and got in. Now he’s living the life...
Just keep at it... I live next to a B777 pilot for AA, he said it took years to get that call... he didn’t think he would make it but kept trying and got in. Now he’s living the life...
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Never Give UP!
Joined the RAF at 18, was told I achieved the 3rd highest score ever on the selection tests. Got streamed for the fast stuff (Tornado GR1) .... had a flying accident which stopped me flying ...
3 years after surgery - started again.
Building hours and jumping through the CAA hoops and spending money - that was at the end of 80's ..... The mother of credit crunches!
Lost my house.
Tried to keep my hand in when I could whilst doing any job that came along.
Fast forward 10 years - found myself in the States with a CPL, I/R etc..
working as a flight instructor and happier than a pig in S**T!
That was until some foreign 'soldiers of religion' flew into a couple of buildings!!!
End of the flight training (long story!) divorce, and back to the UK. Got myself a job in the Ambulance Service in order to pay off the 'EX's' debts.
Done that now. Picked up the phone to the CAA and asked them what I need to do to get that ATPL!!!
Guess what ... starting groundschool this month ....
Moral - Don't ever give up!!!
I know that WHEN I get to that final interview for a job, there's no way they can question my desire and commitment!!!
3 years after surgery - started again.
Building hours and jumping through the CAA hoops and spending money - that was at the end of 80's ..... The mother of credit crunches!
Lost my house.
Tried to keep my hand in when I could whilst doing any job that came along.
Fast forward 10 years - found myself in the States with a CPL, I/R etc..
working as a flight instructor and happier than a pig in S**T!
That was until some foreign 'soldiers of religion' flew into a couple of buildings!!!
End of the flight training (long story!) divorce, and back to the UK. Got myself a job in the Ambulance Service in order to pay off the 'EX's' debts.
Done that now. Picked up the phone to the CAA and asked them what I need to do to get that ATPL!!!
Guess what ... starting groundschool this month ....
Moral - Don't ever give up!!!
I know that WHEN I get to that final interview for a job, there's no way they can question my desire and commitment!!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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when airlines called me asking me to pay for their lousy line training at 30'000$, I said simply :"go to hell".
now, I sleep well as usual, cuz I still have my money.I have never invested one penny in stock auctions of my life.
I worked hard all my life and if I still fly, it' s because I didn't sell my soul.
my other friends with their 100-300 hours of boeing line training, have no job, no money,...and will have to repay for their new line training if hired in 2012(maybe).
they are at home totally broke.
Life is wonderful when you have your own money!
I have seen some idiots who shot themself a bullet because they lost a few billions...suicide for money, what a bunch of losers!
don't give up, this market will restart.
now, I sleep well as usual, cuz I still have my money.I have never invested one penny in stock auctions of my life.
I worked hard all my life and if I still fly, it' s because I didn't sell my soul.
my other friends with their 100-300 hours of boeing line training, have no job, no money,...and will have to repay for their new line training if hired in 2012(maybe).
they are at home totally broke.
Life is wonderful when you have your own money!
I have seen some idiots who shot themself a bullet because they lost a few billions...suicide for money, what a bunch of losers!
don't give up, this market will restart.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I think 'scratchingthesky' makes a very valid point. Borrowing under the present climate is near suicidal for anyone aspiring to be a pilot. Try and stay focused, patient and update the game plan so that when things begin to look up you are ready to take advantage. However for now the name of the games is to take "no risks or gambles".
Join Date: May 2001
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There are a few jobs out there even with payed type ratings.
They ain't in shiny jets.
Anyone that holds a type rating on any form of jet won't get a look in.
Instructors prefered.
Will anyone broadcast that they are going, will they hell. The 3 that I know of for 200 pilots are already choosen before they have completed training. All of the guys have got the jobs through networking.
They ain't in shiny jets.
Anyone that holds a type rating on any form of jet won't get a look in.
Instructors prefered.
Will anyone broadcast that they are going, will they hell. The 3 that I know of for 200 pilots are already choosen before they have completed training. All of the guys have got the jobs through networking.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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2very good news for you:
1-the first good new is that banks don't give money anymore.
so most of us can only forget to become a pilot.
2-the second good news, is ICAO 4 is here. if you don't speak english, you will never fly for an airline.I think 80% of "dreamers" will give up.
in 2-3 years, there will be a shortage of pilots.I mean, a real shortage of pilots.
let's see, USA can not train muslim students. the FAA will implement the ICAO rule in may 2009.Banks will have to be restructured(loan departments).Several governments will inject money but in return will request some guarantees.India has eject their foreign copilots, resulting pay to fly scheme is dying.Asia is booming, specially china.
I believe this crisis is good for pilots, it will clean up the mess that airlines, and banks has created in the past. Only the motivated one will survive.
Oxford, Eagle jet, and all other expensive schools packed with dreamers, I say you bye bye...Modular training , and flight clubs will survive.
1-the first good new is that banks don't give money anymore.
so most of us can only forget to become a pilot.
2-the second good news, is ICAO 4 is here. if you don't speak english, you will never fly for an airline.I think 80% of "dreamers" will give up.
in 2-3 years, there will be a shortage of pilots.I mean, a real shortage of pilots.
let's see, USA can not train muslim students. the FAA will implement the ICAO rule in may 2009.Banks will have to be restructured(loan departments).Several governments will inject money but in return will request some guarantees.India has eject their foreign copilots, resulting pay to fly scheme is dying.Asia is booming, specially china.
I believe this crisis is good for pilots, it will clean up the mess that airlines, and banks has created in the past. Only the motivated one will survive.
Oxford, Eagle jet, and all other expensive schools packed with dreamers, I say you bye bye...Modular training , and flight clubs will survive.
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mmm...interesting spin on things!!
Baton down the hatches... I can hear www heading for the keyboard!!
BTW, what's happened to PPRuNe's clock? its now set at EST. Have you moved to LA for some sun??
Baton down the hatches... I can hear www heading for the keyboard!!
BTW, what's happened to PPRuNe's clock? its now set at EST. Have you moved to LA for some sun??
Oxford, Eagle jet, and all other expensive schools packed with dreamers, I say you bye bye...Modular training , and flight clubs will survive.
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Instructors very rarely came from OAT and the like in the first place. I can think of 3 in the last 6 years I have met. One was good and is a ppruner who posts occasionally and the other 2 left alot to be desired.
And most if not all instructors at these schools are modular trained. Makes you wonder if the product is that great why don't you get the product back to teach the next course. The RAF do it with there Creamy Instructors.
And as for dartagnan comments. Well actually there are a fair few people get through training without borrowing a single penny. How you may ask?
Actually its dead easy.... you get off your arse and go and earn it. There are loads of plumbers,builders, sparkys you name it profession wise someone will know someone who used to do that.
The english thing will sort itself out in a few years. Most youngsters worldwide now are getting very good at English thanks to the internet and the knowledge that English is a way to improve there lives. Give it another five years and they will be up to cloggy levels of English
Muslims can train in america but other factors relating to european rules may limit JAR training over there.
And as for a shortage of Pilots!!! never will happen in the wannabie stage of experence There is actually a shortage of pilots now in the turboprop LHS in various types. But that really doesn't help your 200 hour fresh cpl/IR holder
And most if not all instructors at these schools are modular trained. Makes you wonder if the product is that great why don't you get the product back to teach the next course. The RAF do it with there Creamy Instructors.
And as for dartagnan comments. Well actually there are a fair few people get through training without borrowing a single penny. How you may ask?
Actually its dead easy.... you get off your arse and go and earn it. There are loads of plumbers,builders, sparkys you name it profession wise someone will know someone who used to do that.
The english thing will sort itself out in a few years. Most youngsters worldwide now are getting very good at English thanks to the internet and the knowledge that English is a way to improve there lives. Give it another five years and they will be up to cloggy levels of English
Muslims can train in america but other factors relating to european rules may limit JAR training over there.
And as for a shortage of Pilots!!! never will happen in the wannabie stage of experence There is actually a shortage of pilots now in the turboprop LHS in various types. But that really doesn't help your 200 hour fresh cpl/IR holder
Join Date: Feb 2006
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dartagnan, nice summary, but where will the flight instructors for the clubs come from now??
the other guys from airlines, are now without jobs , and without 500 hours as a fi, it' s very hard to find a job as a flight instructor.
the result there is less instructors on this market. instructors are paid 2x time more than 10 years ago, included examiners.
One day, a flight instructor will be paid a fortune, let's say 6000$/month, instead of the 3000-4000$ I have seen.
everybody says flight instructing sucks! I have met several flight instructors who are now happy to fly.
anyway, just keep flying...dont' give up.
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its maybe regional then
In uk there is no issue being a new start with zero hours as an instructor. In fact some CFI's prefer them that way and won't employ anyone who has worked in another school.
And $3000 a month is about 3 times the going rate for FI's in the UK. During winter they will be looking at $700-$1000 a month if they are lucky.
In uk there is no issue being a new start with zero hours as an instructor. In fact some CFI's prefer them that way and won't employ anyone who has worked in another school.
And $3000 a month is about 3 times the going rate for FI's in the UK. During winter they will be looking at $700-$1000 a month if they are lucky.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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crewing
Hi Guys,
This seems to be a flt deck forum! But it does say interviews for jobs. I
have justs been made redundant after nearly 8yrs. I was in the the pos
of crew rostering supervisor. Can anybody help me? Thanks!
Sorry 4 interupting ur flt deck forum!
Desperate messures prevail!
This seems to be a flt deck forum! But it does say interviews for jobs. I
have justs been made redundant after nearly 8yrs. I was in the the pos
of crew rostering supervisor. Can anybody help me? Thanks!
Sorry 4 interupting ur flt deck forum!
Desperate messures prevail!