So where are all the jobs then?
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US Market?
Well for a kick of its a different liscence, I actually think its harder to get a job over there beacuse the liscence is so easy there are a lot of people who are qualified, supply out meets demand!
You also need to have a degree in some other subjest as well to even get sniffed at, unfortunatley I have not
You also need to have a degree in some other subjest as well to even get sniffed at, unfortunatley I have not
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more interviews doesn't mean more jobs but more openings for qualified pilots to replace people leaving for retirement or going to the majors.
Many pilots apply and very few will be selected! the situation is certainly better than in 2001 when there were not a sniff of interview.
Many pilots apply and very few will be selected! the situation is certainly better than in 2001 when there were not a sniff of interview.
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Ivor Novello - absolutely spot on!!!!!!!! 
It's one of the curses of today's society - I want IT ALL NOW without any sense of actually having earned it!! Like you say, it is more and more just a question of money............... 
It's one of the curses of today's society - I want IT ALL NOW without any sense of actually having earned it!! Like you say, it is more and more just a question of money...............
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Jobs
There are many ways to skin a cat as they say.I too did not have the funds to go to Oxford and continued my career on the ground in aviation in order for it to look good on my CV and thus getting further into debt. However I did make useful contacts (which I learnt very quickly what this game is sometimes about) who recommneded me to do a self sponsored A320 type rating at GECAT (this pushed my financial limit to the max!). Passed the tests etc and only 12 months later i'm earning little less than 50k and making the investment work. My terms and conditions are now protected and BAPLA are on my side. This does not mean that i will get shafted again as now i'm in a much better position than i was when i was looking for that first job. (P.S i don't agree with paying for the SSTR too but until a dramatic change takes place you have to make do with what you have got. I think thats taught on an MCC course.)
So this way does work. Maybe not everyone can afford the type rating which is where the turbo prop companies come in, but the industry is now looking brighter for people at an early stage so whichever path you take, remember to keep your chin up, keep those applications on the go and maybe put your face around on the off chance that somebody might rememeber it.
Oh and finally, i know sometimes it's hard but remember to be a nice chap. The more people you step on to get to the top, the more people will kick you on the way down or something like that.
Good luck.
So this way does work. Maybe not everyone can afford the type rating which is where the turbo prop companies come in, but the industry is now looking brighter for people at an early stage so whichever path you take, remember to keep your chin up, keep those applications on the go and maybe put your face around on the off chance that somebody might rememeber it.
Oh and finally, i know sometimes it's hard but remember to be a nice chap. The more people you step on to get to the top, the more people will kick you on the way down or something like that.
Good luck.
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Keep Your Chin Up?
So you keep your chin up?
I do not see how, when your boss will tell you, oh by the way we have this upgrade to this airplane and Blueboy since we know you like to pay for TR why do not you go and get one for this plane too. What are you gonna say..... YES SIR! or go
yourself? You can keep your chin up when you got that job by lick
Then again "You got to do what you got to do" but do not give me....
And by the way by buying yourself a job YOU did step on every pilot's toes.
I do not see how, when your boss will tell you, oh by the way we have this upgrade to this airplane and Blueboy since we know you like to pay for TR why do not you go and get one for this plane too. What are you gonna say..... YES SIR! or go
yourself? You can keep your chin up when you got that job by lick Then again "You got to do what you got to do" but do not give me....
And by the way by buying yourself a job YOU did step on every pilot's toes.
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Judging by the last post on here I am likely to get some abuse for even starting this up again. But it's obviously not that easy to get a job right now, what are other people's views on buying a type rating? By this I don't mean whether it is morally right or wrong but whether it seems to do the trick and sort out that job where other routes seem to be failing? I'm trying to help out a friend with advice so any thoughts would be appreciated.
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If you check out PPJN.com it is not good reading.
All the majors seem to be quiet for one reason or another:-
BA - not open to the average wannabe
Virgin - forget it
Thomson - merging, not recruiting
Mytravel - same
First Choice - same
Thomas Cook - same
GB Airways - integrated into Easyjet
BMI - overcrewed
BMED - now BMI
Excel - not recruiting
Astraeus - not recruiting
Flyglobespan - not recruiting
Jet2 - not recruiting
Monarch - forget it if you're 250hr Modular
BMI Baby - not recruiting this winter
Air Southwest - not recruiting in numbers
Loganair - only recruiting a few, done now I think
Titan - same as Monarch
DHL - recruitment done?
Highland airways - only needs captains so I believe
Easyjet - not recruiting until 2008?
Eastern - not sure
The only ones who seem to be recruiting steadily at the moment are
Flybe & Ryanair.
My personal opinion is that there is alot of consolidation and there will continue to be consolidation, the economy could be on the way down and oil prices are at an all time high, not good reading if you are trying to get into the industry. Who knows what will happen in 2008 but I think if you don't get in during 2008 then there may be a bit of a wait, this means instructor jobs will start to dry up and be hard to come by.
End of the day alot of airlines have expanded very quickly, and as with any business there will be saturation in the market, i.e too many aircraft, not enough tickets sold, this all leads to a slow down.
I may be entirely wrong, who knows, but I've been watching it for the last 6 months and it is getting quieter & quieter on the recruiting front.
As for a SSTR chocky, well I have said it before, I know of a few people it has gone wrong for, and wrong really bad, personally I think you are mad to do a TR without a firm job offer, a catch 22 maybe, no TR no interview etc but I will say this - if you can't afford for it to go wrong DON'T do it.
All the majors seem to be quiet for one reason or another:-
BA - not open to the average wannabe
Virgin - forget it
Thomson - merging, not recruiting
Mytravel - same
First Choice - same
Thomas Cook - same
GB Airways - integrated into Easyjet
BMI - overcrewed
BMED - now BMI
Excel - not recruiting
Astraeus - not recruiting
Flyglobespan - not recruiting
Jet2 - not recruiting
Monarch - forget it if you're 250hr Modular
BMI Baby - not recruiting this winter
Air Southwest - not recruiting in numbers
Loganair - only recruiting a few, done now I think
Titan - same as Monarch
DHL - recruitment done?
Highland airways - only needs captains so I believe
Easyjet - not recruiting until 2008?
Eastern - not sure
The only ones who seem to be recruiting steadily at the moment are
Flybe & Ryanair.
My personal opinion is that there is alot of consolidation and there will continue to be consolidation, the economy could be on the way down and oil prices are at an all time high, not good reading if you are trying to get into the industry. Who knows what will happen in 2008 but I think if you don't get in during 2008 then there may be a bit of a wait, this means instructor jobs will start to dry up and be hard to come by.
End of the day alot of airlines have expanded very quickly, and as with any business there will be saturation in the market, i.e too many aircraft, not enough tickets sold, this all leads to a slow down.
I may be entirely wrong, who knows, but I've been watching it for the last 6 months and it is getting quieter & quieter on the recruiting front.
As for a SSTR chocky, well I have said it before, I know of a few people it has gone wrong for, and wrong really bad, personally I think you are mad to do a TR without a firm job offer, a catch 22 maybe, no TR no interview etc but I will say this - if you can't afford for it to go wrong DON'T do it.
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Member Deano777 is right.
You must be mad to do a TR without a real reason to do it.
As I've been telling many already, hour buiding costs about the same and pushes you forward (even if you stay in the same row).
I also encourage candidates to apply abroad.
For those willing to apply to Ryanair, consider being flexible and not applying for just one base.
What looks really bad for this area of Europe on the very short term is that there are about 200 pilots (F/O's & captains) to be dropped on the market due to SAS dumping the Dash 8's.
Don't expect many replies if you're applying to Flybe
You must be mad to do a TR without a real reason to do it.
As I've been telling many already, hour buiding costs about the same and pushes you forward (even if you stay in the same row).
I also encourage candidates to apply abroad.
For those willing to apply to Ryanair, consider being flexible and not applying for just one base.
What looks really bad for this area of Europe on the very short term is that there are about 200 pilots (F/O's & captains) to be dropped on the market due to SAS dumping the Dash 8's.
Don't expect many replies if you're applying to Flybe
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I wouldn't have thought SAS would have been a major issue, they are dumping the Dash 8 but will aquire something else to replace it so pilots can just expect to be retrained.
Who knows, flybe might snap up the ex-SAS Dash 8's and then there's even more jobs. Who knows in this crazy industry.
Who knows, flybe might snap up the ex-SAS Dash 8's and then there's even more jobs. Who knows in this crazy industry.
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Yes indeed, that's also a reason why I mentionned "in the very short term".
Don't know for sure but I heard rumours about SAS looking at A318's, but I say again, I'm not sure. Even if they order them, they will not get them before 2009 anyway.
Only a bunch of pilots (mostly the captains) will be retrained. Dumping 27 aircraft, with at least 10 pilots per aircraft that will make about 70 pilots to be retrained (they will surely keep the most experienced), and the rest, about 200 will be dumped.
It makes sense.
Don't know for sure but I heard rumours about SAS looking at A318's, but I say again, I'm not sure. Even if they order them, they will not get them before 2009 anyway.
Only a bunch of pilots (mostly the captains) will be retrained. Dumping 27 aircraft, with at least 10 pilots per aircraft that will make about 70 pilots to be retrained (they will surely keep the most experienced), and the rest, about 200 will be dumped.
It makes sense.
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ppjn's info is very old and often out of date.
air southwest have just interviewed and sim checked loads of people for 10 new FO's. so if you only use ppjn your often too late.
dont buy a tr, do a FI, yes it will be a **** 12 months, but u will learn alot, and at the end of it you will be a much better pilot and very employable!
good luck!
air southwest have just interviewed and sim checked loads of people for 10 new FO's. so if you only use ppjn your often too late.
dont buy a tr, do a FI, yes it will be a **** 12 months, but u will learn alot, and at the end of it you will be a much better pilot and very employable!
good luck!
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Crime pays too
Choky do not be CHUKY!
All your live they tell you to be good and that crime does not pay.
WELL..... IT DOES! (if you do not think so then keep growing up) but that does not mean we are all going to be career criminals.
Your question about the TR has the same answer. But worse outcome, because if you become a criminal you do not force the rest to be one when you buy a TR you DO.
DO the FI, there is loads of jobs (ask me if you need one) and who knows you might become a pilot in the process!
All your live they tell you to be good and that crime does not pay.
WELL..... IT DOES! (if you do not think so then keep growing up) but that does not mean we are all going to be career criminals.
Your question about the TR has the same answer. But worse outcome, because if you become a criminal you do not force the rest to be one when you buy a TR you DO.
DO the FI, there is loads of jobs (ask me if you need one) and who knows you might become a pilot in the process!
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Yes
I say again DONT buy a TR unless you have a firm job offer, too big a risk, but it's your money at the end of the day
And what you say about Jet2 recruiting experienced guys is the casing point.
I say again DONT buy a TR unless you have a firm job offer, too big a risk, but it's your money at the end of the day
And what you say about Jet2 recruiting experienced guys is the casing point.
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I have been watching this thread for a good while without feeling the need to reply. I don't want to antagonise anybody, but surely if somebody feels the need to enhance their career prospects by purchasing a TR who are we to judge.
In any other industry there are choices to be made, investments to be made. The SSTR is an idea whos time has come. nobody in their right mind would pay for such a thing if the precident hadn't aleady been set. Here's the news guys it's been set and the likelyhood of it returning to the old days are extremely slim.
I have, like everybody else, who chooses to follow this forum, worked hard and invested a great deal of money in the pursuit of my dream job.
Maybe I differ slightly from the average wanabee, I am the wrong side of 40 and have managed to remain fully employed throughout my training. I have no debt as a result. I also don't have the latest model sports car parked on my drive.
In 2006 I decided to bite the bullet and pay for a 737 TR, I followed this up with a small but essential investment in an interview preparation course with the wonderfull Penny Austin. I have sent out hundreds of CV's and got the usual thanks but no thanks replys.
However, you only need one interview to make it count.
Recently I got that interview and spent 2 weeks researching the company.
I have just been offered my first Jet Job (not on the 737) my interviwer told me after
"with your hours, I would not be interviewing you today, if it were not for the fact that you have already proved that you can complete a Jet TR"
sorry to bring this subject up again but the extra investment can sometimes help.
In any other industry there are choices to be made, investments to be made. The SSTR is an idea whos time has come. nobody in their right mind would pay for such a thing if the precident hadn't aleady been set. Here's the news guys it's been set and the likelyhood of it returning to the old days are extremely slim.
I have, like everybody else, who chooses to follow this forum, worked hard and invested a great deal of money in the pursuit of my dream job.
Maybe I differ slightly from the average wanabee, I am the wrong side of 40 and have managed to remain fully employed throughout my training. I have no debt as a result. I also don't have the latest model sports car parked on my drive.
In 2006 I decided to bite the bullet and pay for a 737 TR, I followed this up with a small but essential investment in an interview preparation course with the wonderfull Penny Austin. I have sent out hundreds of CV's and got the usual thanks but no thanks replys.
However, you only need one interview to make it count.
Recently I got that interview and spent 2 weeks researching the company.
I have just been offered my first Jet Job (not on the 737) my interviwer told me after
"with your hours, I would not be interviewing you today, if it were not for the fact that you have already proved that you can complete a Jet TR"
sorry to bring this subject up again but the extra investment can sometimes help.
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RIGHT
Dartagnan!
We are against people buying TR because it makes everyone have to buy TR
You are asking "the ones you are screwing" for help.
Does sounds normal to you?.
And yes there is little market IN EUROPE, to do anything else but Airline, but there is the rest of the world, so THAT is not an excuse....
I have not met anyone yet that can not pass a TR.
You did not finish the phrase "the extra investment sometimes can help" YOU and screw everyone else.
THIS IT HAS BEEN DISCUSS TO DEATH, TO TR OR NOT TO TR. everyone is free to do what they think, you know my stand.
We are against people buying TR because it makes everyone have to buy TR
You are asking "the ones you are screwing" for help.
Does sounds normal to you?.
And yes there is little market IN EUROPE, to do anything else but Airline, but there is the rest of the world, so THAT is not an excuse....
I have not met anyone yet that can not pass a TR.
You did not finish the phrase "the extra investment sometimes can help" YOU and screw everyone else.
THIS IT HAS BEEN DISCUSS TO DEATH, TO TR OR NOT TO TR. everyone is free to do what they think, you know my stand.
Last edited by Always Moving; 27th Nov 2007 at 05:32.
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Rubbish... Floggingadeadhorse, That's not an arguement from your interview.
As long as you pay for a TR you can be sure you will pass it by 99%.
Honestly I would be curious to know how many people paid for TR and did not pass it at the end!!
I totally agree with Always Moving, but there are always people who pay for a TR...that's life. Because they only want fly a 320 or 737.
Guys, come on, you must know that companies need US, they need pilots.
They don't care about you, for them you are a little pilot, a little boy who bring back money for the companies, just like that.
But you have a dream, and you are naive, so they take advantage of this fact.
Don't tell me that there are not companies who pay TR,I know a lot a friends who did not pay their own TR or in this case, they got a guarantee.
Well you do what you want if you have money, but please don't cry on this forum... It is your fault.
As long as you pay for a TR you can be sure you will pass it by 99%.
Honestly I would be curious to know how many people paid for TR and did not pass it at the end!!
I totally agree with Always Moving, but there are always people who pay for a TR...that's life. Because they only want fly a 320 or 737.
Guys, come on, you must know that companies need US, they need pilots.
They don't care about you, for them you are a little pilot, a little boy who bring back money for the companies, just like that.
But you have a dream, and you are naive, so they take advantage of this fact.
Don't tell me that there are not companies who pay TR,I know a lot a friends who did not pay their own TR or in this case, they got a guarantee.
Well you do what you want if you have money, but please don't cry on this forum... It is your fault.