So where are all the jobs then?
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I'm going to the conference, although the webpage was screwed when I paid and only some cutting around and creating my own payment page let me pay in full - so at the moment i'm probably the only one attending! All the more jobs for me 
On a serious note, what do you do there? I assume there is presentations and everything, but do you just wander round with CV's in hand and dish them out to the MD's?
On a serious note, what do you do there? I assume there is presentations and everything, but do you just wander round with CV's in hand and dish them out to the MD's?
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I have read this forum with intrigue and interest. Yes Vito sounded very pessimistic. And of course, you have all given advice (sending C.V's isnt enough, go to the airline yourself, hand a cv in person, look at other opportunities etc) but he has mentioned that he has done this anyway.
So the other advice you have been telling him is "stay positive", "mental positive thinking", "good attititude" etc. Well, yeah, brilliant. Sounds great in a corporate environment. Straight out of the mouth of David Brent.
But does being positive get you a job at BA? you could have 100% passes in every exam, be the best pilot. But if you fail those psycometric exams, or you can't use a piece of string, a piece of wood, and a paperclip to get over from A to B (team building excersises at airline selection in case you had no idea what i was on about) , then you are not going to get hired.
I mean it is a tough world. Ad I think you guys are being a little too hard on Vito.
The only advice that I think is 100% accurate is when you have said "you should have done research and known the industry before you commited even a penny to your flight training. No job is guranteed".
I feel sorry for this guy. let him have his moan. he spent all that money and he aint as lucky as you lot. Am I'm sure he isn't the only one. How many thousands of ATPL piltos have passed through Oxford, CTC, Bond etc and are not even in the LHS of a 737 for Ryan air?
So the other advice you have been telling him is "stay positive", "mental positive thinking", "good attititude" etc. Well, yeah, brilliant. Sounds great in a corporate environment. Straight out of the mouth of David Brent.
But does being positive get you a job at BA? you could have 100% passes in every exam, be the best pilot. But if you fail those psycometric exams, or you can't use a piece of string, a piece of wood, and a paperclip to get over from A to B (team building excersises at airline selection in case you had no idea what i was on about) , then you are not going to get hired.
I mean it is a tough world. Ad I think you guys are being a little too hard on Vito.
The only advice that I think is 100% accurate is when you have said "you should have done research and known the industry before you commited even a penny to your flight training. No job is guranteed".
I feel sorry for this guy. let him have his moan. he spent all that money and he aint as lucky as you lot. Am I'm sure he isn't the only one. How many thousands of ATPL piltos have passed through Oxford, CTC, Bond etc and are not even in the LHS of a 737 for Ryan air?
Educated Hillbilly
Timzta,
Don't get too excited about the BALPA employment conference, been there three years in a row and and in truth it is of limited value.
Eastern Airlines always say that they will attend but are never there. Air Contractors only look at candidates with ATR ratings they will accept a rating with no hours on type but do not offer an in "house SSTR" agreement; essentially funding the ATR 42 rating at Skyblue is the way into Air Contractors.
Flybe have an online application process so no longer accept applications on the day.
Have you done your research? BA Citiflyer, did that not become BA Connect, and in turn was taken over by Flybe.
What became evident last year was an increasing amount of airlines were taking low hour candidates through CTC, or wanted 500 hours time on type) there was no imbetween criteria for instructors with 700 to 1000 hours.
There is normally only one or two airlines accepting applications on the day from non-airline experienced / low houred pilots as a consequence you will queue for about 2 hours to hand in a CV. Though one has to congratulate the representative from BMI last year who did make the effort to speak to every single candidate and was there until 6.30 in the evening.
Don't get too excited about the BALPA employment conference, been there three years in a row and and in truth it is of limited value.
Eastern Airlines always say that they will attend but are never there. Air Contractors only look at candidates with ATR ratings they will accept a rating with no hours on type but do not offer an in "house SSTR" agreement; essentially funding the ATR 42 rating at Skyblue is the way into Air Contractors.
Flybe have an online application process so no longer accept applications on the day.
Have you done your research? BA Citiflyer, did that not become BA Connect, and in turn was taken over by Flybe.
What became evident last year was an increasing amount of airlines were taking low hour candidates through CTC, or wanted 500 hours time on type) there was no imbetween criteria for instructors with 700 to 1000 hours.
There is normally only one or two airlines accepting applications on the day from non-airline experienced / low houred pilots as a consequence you will queue for about 2 hours to hand in a CV. Though one has to congratulate the representative from BMI last year who did make the effort to speak to every single candidate and was there until 6.30 in the evening.
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ctc Vs ptc , intergrated Vs modular , employment prospects
Hi Vito - Hope you find the job you want and best of luck mate.
I am a 'wannabe' and this thread has really put me off flying. I recently graduated in Physics & have always wanted to fly, and have done a little flying (6 hours with CCF at school.)
So i really need some advice. First up I have applied to PTC Ireland & also CTC both of which iv reached the phase 2 part of testing.
I personally see these companies as roughly equivalent, although posts on here make me feel as if CTC maybe a better choice if im ever privalidged enough to have that choice. - CTC VS PTC??
Are intergrated courses generally a 'safer option'?
I already have alot of student debt and really really need some good advice.
Thanks for your time guys
I am a 'wannabe' and this thread has really put me off flying. I recently graduated in Physics & have always wanted to fly, and have done a little flying (6 hours with CCF at school.)
So i really need some advice. First up I have applied to PTC Ireland & also CTC both of which iv reached the phase 2 part of testing.
I personally see these companies as roughly equivalent, although posts on here make me feel as if CTC maybe a better choice if im ever privalidged enough to have that choice. - CTC VS PTC??
Are intergrated courses generally a 'safer option'?
I already have alot of student debt and really really need some good advice.
Thanks for your time guys
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i dont know a hell of a lot but...
Im pretty sure you can do training with CTC in New Zealand, Hamilton. they use those DA4042`s. Cheap, and you get to live in the best country in the world!
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I personally see these companies as roughly equivalent, although posts on here make me feel as if CTC maybe a better choice if im ever privalidged enough to have that choice. - CTC VS PTC??
Look into it a little more, PTC will accept you if you have the cash available to spend, CTC or Oxford will not.
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Does that mean that in terms of getting a job going throught ctc / oxford would guarentee me or have me better placed to get a job as an airlines pilot over PTC? Would i be limited to getting jobs in Ireland if I train in Ireland?
thanks again for any suggestion advice
thanks again for any suggestion advice
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I totally agree with Vito. No matter how good a pilot you maybe, it all comes down to who you know...and no longer what you know. I could be the worse pilot out but as long as i know someone, well...that RHS on the jet is mine. Now for all those who say "I fly for the love of it...freedom of the sky and all that crap!!!"...well...i did as well but then reality hit me and realised that at some point in life, this has to become a job and not a hobby and therefore money does play a part as well. Good for those who have money in the banks, or parents being their supplier of cash, but for some of us, flying has to pay the bills. Mind you, I am extremely passionate about flying, more so then most pilots i have come across. However, seems like passion and skills are not what most employers are looking for nowadays...its whether or not you know someone in the airline you are applying to!!!
I know guys who cant even fly a twin piston properly, however, once they get that "X" amount of hours, they move into the RHS on a jet all because their father or some other relative is in the airline. And these guys are earning more than what a good pilot earns in GA all because the poor sod (GA pilot) just did not have someone to help him get an interview with the major airline. And ofcourse, the poor GA pilot has to put up with the jet pilot who now thinks he is the better pilot because he is on the jet!!!
Some of you here might have had the easy run, thats why you might think that some of us whinge alot and not too sure what the hell we are on about.
Oh..and at the end of the day, it does come down to the money. Those of you already earning decent money will ofcourse disagree with me but thats normal...easier for you to say "its not all about the money" because you already earn it!!
I know guys who cant even fly a twin piston properly, however, once they get that "X" amount of hours, they move into the RHS on a jet all because their father or some other relative is in the airline. And these guys are earning more than what a good pilot earns in GA all because the poor sod (GA pilot) just did not have someone to help him get an interview with the major airline. And ofcourse, the poor GA pilot has to put up with the jet pilot who now thinks he is the better pilot because he is on the jet!!!
Some of you here might have had the easy run, thats why you might think that some of us whinge alot and not too sure what the hell we are on about.
Oh..and at the end of the day, it does come down to the money. Those of you already earning decent money will ofcourse disagree with me but thats normal...easier for you to say "its not all about the money" because you already earn it!!
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Now for all those who say "I fly for the love of it...freedom of the sky and all that crap!!!"...well...i did as well but then reality hit me and realised that at some point in life, this has to become a job and not a hobby
flying has to pay the bills. Mind you, I am extremely passionate about flying, more so then most pilots i have come across.
K.C aka "...all that crap" poster
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KC...I see you still having difficulty realising that flying for some is a job. Why cant one person be passionate about his/her job and yet request a decent pay at the end of the day for that job. Maybe if everyone would stop thinking like you ie. "you should fly for the love of it etc etc and not money", we wouldnt be treated like bunch of low class citizens who deserve nothing more than the minimum wage in GA...actually, less than the minimum wage set out by most countries.
Every employer knows they will get someone who will work for nothing because "he/she loves flying"!!!
And we wonder why the GA industry is such..no ones fault but ours.
Every employer knows they will get someone who will work for nothing because "he/she loves flying"!!!
And we wonder why the GA industry is such..no ones fault but ours.
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Thanks for that.
I have never once said that anyone should fly for peanuts, and I couldn't agree more with your comment
I get paid to fly, and I get paid well. And I love it. And the day i stop loving flying is the day I stop, and get another job paying just as much money.
I think you may have missed my point... and I'm sorry for you.
just an aferthougt... would you want a vet working on your cat who didn't like animals...? 
I have never once said that anyone should fly for peanuts, and I couldn't agree more with your comment
we wouldnt be treated like bunch of low class citizens who deserve nothing more than the minimum wage in GA...actually, less than the minimum wage set out by most countries.
I think you may have missed my point... and I'm sorry for you.
just an aferthougt... would you want a vet working on your cat who didn't like animals...?
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I get paid to fly, and I get paid well. And I love it. And the day i stop loving flying is the day I stop, and get another job paying just as much money.
Anyway, as I stated before, I do love flying, but sometimes the industry is such that the passion is slowly drained out of you. Seems like the less passionate ones get further in this industry by knowing someone within the airlines. OK.. i am repeating myself here so its time for me to leave this thread.
Didnt mean to be harsh on you KC
Last edited by Fail passive; 17th Aug 2007 at 13:02. Reason: Thought my former english teacher might be surfing Pprune so decided to correct my spelling!!
So the other advice you have been telling him is "stay positive", "mental positive thinking", "good attititude" etc. Well, yeah, brilliant. Sounds great in a corporate environment. Straight out of the mouth of David Brent.
But does being positive get you a job at BA? you could have 100% passes in every exam, be the best pilot. But if you fail those psycometric exams, or you can't use a piece of string, a piece of wood, and a paperclip to get over from A to B (team building excersises at airline selection in case you had no idea what i was on about) , then you are not going to get hired.
But does being positive get you a job at BA? you could have 100% passes in every exam, be the best pilot. But if you fail those psycometric exams, or you can't use a piece of string, a piece of wood, and a paperclip to get over from A to B (team building excersises at airline selection in case you had no idea what i was on about) , then you are not going to get hired.
Positive thinking means seeing things as they are but never worse than they are. Negative thinking is saying "I have this situation but there is nothing I can do about it"
It can be challenging to keep on going when you get lots of rejection but it's not what happens to you but how you handle what happens to you. I speak as one who is very experienced in aviation who tooks 3 years to get back into the industry (and went to work on the railway system as a signaller believe it or not) after a break due to a family bereavement. Strange to say it but I now long back on all this as a big learning experience and I now value what I have more than ever!
Recently I went to see Michael Losier talk on the "Law of Attraction". If you do a Google search you are bound to find him. The arguement is that if you are "underperforming" in any area of your life this is because of what you are focussing on and therefore attracting what you dont want.
Good luck to everyone who is looking for that first job in aviation!
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Job Vacancies
I work at a professional training organisation and we have approx 14 vacancies for Instructors. We are seeking full time Bombardier Global Express Instructors and Falcon 900EX EASy / 2000EX EASy and 7X Instructors. Preference will be given to type rated individuals but training will be provided if necessary. You must have a minimum of 1500 flying hours on multi-pilot aircraft and hold, or have held, an ICAO professional licence.
Please let me know if you are interested and I will provide further details.
Best Wishes
Please let me know if you are interested and I will provide further details.
Best Wishes
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you honestly cannot expect to land a job rhs in a jet straight out of flight school, no matter how badly you want it. Unfortunately things just don't work that way. I would suggest that you be happy with what you are offered, or maybe lower your standards a bit. In other countries, and I will use mine as an example, we are expected to fly 207's and 210's for years on end, then when we have 1000TT and 200hrs multi we MIGHT just be considered for rhs on a saab 340. I know that some of you in the UK and US score these types of jobs right out of training so consider yourselves damn lucky. I have 400TT and a long way to go, but GA flying is fun and who wouldn't want to fly a **** box 207 in remote western australia??