Aer Lingus
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Strepsils,
No I don't believe that your right. I am sorry if you disagree I can only tell you what the man from Ialpa told me. Wether the company will get away with it in the face of Union opposition is another matter. Cheers.
No I don't believe that your right. I am sorry if you disagree I can only tell you what the man from Ialpa told me. Wether the company will get away with it in the face of Union opposition is another matter. Cheers.
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Telstar I believe the cadets will be on the same terms and conditions as current lot.
http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0518/aerlingus.html
http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0518/aerlingus.html
Last edited by TheRedVonBaron; 18th May 2006 at 19:19.
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Aer Lingus
Apparently 5 or 6 of the recently returned cadets have had to be sent off to Oxford for remedial training in order to revalidate their Licences.
What does this say about the motivation of these individuals? These people were given the best training the industry has to offer, for free, and have proceeded to walk away from all flying for 5 years. Surely if these individuals are so motivated to become professional pilots they would at least have stayed current?
What does this say about the motivation of these individuals? These people were given the best training the industry has to offer, for free, and have proceeded to walk away from all flying for 5 years. Surely if these individuals are so motivated to become professional pilots they would at least have stayed current?
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Hold on a moment there. You are making a few assumptions.
- you assume that they had the cash to go off and do some flying. Remember one of the main reasons people go for sponsored schemes is to save coin. I wonder how many people could raise some cash for a flying course post 9/11?
- many of these chaps and chappesses will have been young wannabees. Perhaps when they were offered a sponsorsip they dropped out of university or gave up building a career and then found after they were let go that they had missed the boat. How do you know that some of them didn't end up as labourers on the bones of their butts?
- they had as close to a contract of employment as you can get and that was taken away from them. They took up a legal right to be reemployed when opportunities came about and there was nothing that said that they had to keep themselves current in the meantime.
- They were also training during one of the darkest periods in the industrys history so maybe they made a calculated decision to put aside their training until things got better? How many wannabees actually go through that thought process? Hardly any, which is why you read countless stories on pprune of banks about to foreclose cos little timmy went off and got into hock to train and had no idea, no smarts, no contacts to get a job at the end.
You clearly have a grudge or missed out on the cadet scheme. Good on them I say and what a great airline Aer Lingus must be for honouring their promise/contract of bringing them back.
- you assume that they had the cash to go off and do some flying. Remember one of the main reasons people go for sponsored schemes is to save coin. I wonder how many people could raise some cash for a flying course post 9/11?
- many of these chaps and chappesses will have been young wannabees. Perhaps when they were offered a sponsorsip they dropped out of university or gave up building a career and then found after they were let go that they had missed the boat. How do you know that some of them didn't end up as labourers on the bones of their butts?
- they had as close to a contract of employment as you can get and that was taken away from them. They took up a legal right to be reemployed when opportunities came about and there was nothing that said that they had to keep themselves current in the meantime.
- They were also training during one of the darkest periods in the industrys history so maybe they made a calculated decision to put aside their training until things got better? How many wannabees actually go through that thought process? Hardly any, which is why you read countless stories on pprune of banks about to foreclose cos little timmy went off and got into hock to train and had no idea, no smarts, no contacts to get a job at the end.
You clearly have a grudge or missed out on the cadet scheme. Good on them I say and what a great airline Aer Lingus must be for honouring their promise/contract of bringing them back.
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If Aer Lingus had their way, the cadets would have been out the door permanently 5 years ago. The fact that they can return is all thanks to IALPA's insistence that they be given first choice of refusal before any outside recruiting occurs.
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So, just under 90 per cent of the cadets managed to get themselves a job. Thats not a bad statistic considering the job market after sept 11th is it??
I believe its not fair that you condemn these guys that didnt remain current. You dont know these guys personal circumstances. As mentioned above some guys may have decided to return to college as their had no other qualifications or on the hand guys may have had the opportunity to return to well paid jobs they left to become less well off cadets. Also, being an airline pilot may not have been the only goal in the lives of these cadets. Willie Walsh was a cadet and look at him now.
Now that these guys are been given a chance to go back (some with new college degrees and some more financially secure), they themselves are in a better position if the industry goes tits up again!
Manfred
I believe its not fair that you condemn these guys that didnt remain current. You dont know these guys personal circumstances. As mentioned above some guys may have decided to return to college as their had no other qualifications or on the hand guys may have had the opportunity to return to well paid jobs they left to become less well off cadets. Also, being an airline pilot may not have been the only goal in the lives of these cadets. Willie Walsh was a cadet and look at him now.
Now that these guys are been given a chance to go back (some with new college degrees and some more financially secure), they themselves are in a better position if the industry goes tits up again!
Manfred
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I am not condemning these people. I am questioning their motivation.
The dogs in the streets have known for the last 18 to 24 months that EI is facing a pilot shortage and that the recall of all those on leave of absence and the recall of the Cadets was imminent.
With a bit of foresight and preperation these guys could have been well prepared and set to get through their 320 courses smoothly. Instead they are well off the pace (understanable after 5 years) and in the words of an EI Captain, "will struggle to get on line". They will have all the time in the world for College and alternative careers if thats how things work out. Which would be a crying shame as it was so avoidable.
Hopefully its just speculation on the Captains' part and that these people do go on to have rewarding careers with Aer Lingus.
The same Captain was of the opinion that when EI do start to hire outsiders that it will be for Airbus rated people.
The dogs in the streets have known for the last 18 to 24 months that EI is facing a pilot shortage and that the recall of all those on leave of absence and the recall of the Cadets was imminent.
With a bit of foresight and preperation these guys could have been well prepared and set to get through their 320 courses smoothly. Instead they are well off the pace (understanable after 5 years) and in the words of an EI Captain, "will struggle to get on line". They will have all the time in the world for College and alternative careers if thats how things work out. Which would be a crying shame as it was so avoidable.
Hopefully its just speculation on the Captains' part and that these people do go on to have rewarding careers with Aer Lingus.
The same Captain was of the opinion that when EI do start to hire outsiders that it will be for Airbus rated people.
Last edited by CarbHeatIn; 11th Sep 2006 at 13:32.
Thread Starter
hi all
I totally support CarbHeat In's assertion that any laid-off cadet should have made some effort to keep his license current during the lay-off period.After all, most of them did, without question, knowing instinctively that to do so upped their odds of getting a fresh start. Given the fact that they had already consumed many thousands of other peoples' money, with no impact on their own pockets, it wouldn't have hurt to cough up a few quid and maintain at least a basic level of currency.After all, I'd expect an interview board to ask them if they had kept up the flying.It shows a distinct lack of motivation.Bear in mind that EI laid off two years worth of apprentice engineers and then had to contract in engineers from Shannon Aerospace to fill the gap.No such recall awaits those luckless apprentices, who ended up, in some cases, having to start all over again with new employers.Some of them gave up aviation.Those cadets who got recalled are having jam on both sides, with a level of union protection that is the envy of the industry.Quite frankly, if an ex-cadet came to me and said that he hadn't flown in five years, I'd show him the door...
regards
TDD
I totally support CarbHeat In's assertion that any laid-off cadet should have made some effort to keep his license current during the lay-off period.After all, most of them did, without question, knowing instinctively that to do so upped their odds of getting a fresh start. Given the fact that they had already consumed many thousands of other peoples' money, with no impact on their own pockets, it wouldn't have hurt to cough up a few quid and maintain at least a basic level of currency.After all, I'd expect an interview board to ask them if they had kept up the flying.It shows a distinct lack of motivation.Bear in mind that EI laid off two years worth of apprentice engineers and then had to contract in engineers from Shannon Aerospace to fill the gap.No such recall awaits those luckless apprentices, who ended up, in some cases, having to start all over again with new employers.Some of them gave up aviation.Those cadets who got recalled are having jam on both sides, with a level of union protection that is the envy of the industry.Quite frankly, if an ex-cadet came to me and said that he hadn't flown in five years, I'd show him the door...
regards
TDD
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Aer Lingus....any update??
A month or two ago there was a lot of hype regarding Aer Lingus recalling their cadets which had been sent through the likes of OAT and FTE pre 9/11.
Is there any update from anyone who was in that position or from any wannabee who had been called for an interview? Or has the unsettlement caused by O'Leary's attempt to buy the Irish flag carrier put a hold on future plans?
Plus, if anyone can answer, 1.) does Aer Lingus have any affiliation with Parc?
2.) do they have a preference for Irish pilots or Irish based crew?
Thanks CK
Is there any update from anyone who was in that position or from any wannabee who had been called for an interview? Or has the unsettlement caused by O'Leary's attempt to buy the Irish flag carrier put a hold on future plans?
Plus, if anyone can answer, 1.) does Aer Lingus have any affiliation with Parc?
2.) do they have a preference for Irish pilots or Irish based crew?
Thanks CK
Some have decided not to answer the call due to the uncertainty. Some have decided to go for it anyway.
It looks like MOL will not be able to effect a takeover of Lingus. Nevertheless there are questions hovering over the next 2, 5 and 10 years that weren't there prior to flotation.
I believe Lingus are very understanding of the situation.
They would seem to be needing to recruit small numbers of new pilots in the next 12 months. If that's any consolation.
Cheers
WWW
It looks like MOL will not be able to effect a takeover of Lingus. Nevertheless there are questions hovering over the next 2, 5 and 10 years that weren't there prior to flotation.
I believe Lingus are very understanding of the situation.
They would seem to be needing to recruit small numbers of new pilots in the next 12 months. If that's any consolation.
Cheers
WWW
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Aerlingus has some of the cadets pre 9/11 back training since August. Also I heard a rumour that the Eirjet pilots have been offered contract work for them.Anyone have anymore on this?
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Eirjet
Aerlingus has some of the cadets pre 9/11 back training since August. Also I heard a rumour that the Eirjet pilots have been offered contract work for them.Anyone have anymore on this?
Forgot about Eirjet!! Would make perfect sense for EI to 'fill in the gaps' with already rated and experienced A320 Dublin based crew. Eirjet's demise can only work in Aer Lingus's favour if they are requiring pilots
Forgot about Eirjet!! Would make perfect sense for EI to 'fill in the gaps' with already rated and experienced A320 Dublin based crew. Eirjet's demise can only work in Aer Lingus's favour if they are requiring pilots
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Just a little point here, the Cadets sent back to Oxford for a weeks re-training were current and had been flying in general aviation over the last five years. Their motivation shouldn't be questioned by people who don't know the facts.
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Well i have to agree with Drix.... I am only too familar with the guys who went back to Oxford... They were current, but the point of their return to Oxford was reasons better known to Aer Lingus in assisting the guys return back into their training program....Mo-sey 
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Giving the ex-cadets a refresher makes a lot of sense. A few quid spent giving them some time in aeroplanes (or better an MCC type sim) will allow them to hit the ground running when they get to the type rating. I trained a lot of these cadets at FTE and they only got a 20 hour MCC rather than a 40+ hour JOC - so they don't have the same level of training to fall back on as some other did. 5 years was along time ago and standards drift, too - most pilots will pick up many bad habits in 5 years and a little refresher/standardisation training will go a long way.
Think how much it costs for 4 hours remedial training on an A320 full-flight sim during a type rating - taking up valuable time at an expensive TR training centre with a training Captain. Compare that to an extra few days training in an FNPT2 MCC device at an FTO such as OAT or FTE and you can see the savings to be had.
BA tried to give their cadets a few sim rides in the BAC 111 sim when they were kicking their heels in the early 90s after the first punch up with Saddam Hussein. Any brush up before a TR helps - and all credit to an airline that is sensible enough to spend a few Pounds/Euros to save many more.
Think how much it costs for 4 hours remedial training on an A320 full-flight sim during a type rating - taking up valuable time at an expensive TR training centre with a training Captain. Compare that to an extra few days training in an FNPT2 MCC device at an FTO such as OAT or FTE and you can see the savings to be had.
BA tried to give their cadets a few sim rides in the BAC 111 sim when they were kicking their heels in the early 90s after the first punch up with Saddam Hussein. Any brush up before a TR helps - and all credit to an airline that is sensible enough to spend a few Pounds/Euros to save many more.
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Since when has fairness or the law applied to airline recruitment
There are a few people on this thread who seem to be posting because they like reading their own drivel in electronic print. Ubfortunately, they neither have the experience or knowledge to justify or give credence to most of what they have to say.
For information on the relevance of degrees to airline employers, check the Archive sticky on 'Wannabes - Pro Pilot Training'. For information on discriminatory employment practices (such as 'preferring Irish pilots') see any lawyer specialising in EU Employment Law.
Scroggs
For information on the relevance of degrees to airline employers, check the Archive sticky on 'Wannabes - Pro Pilot Training'. For information on discriminatory employment practices (such as 'preferring Irish pilots') see any lawyer specialising in EU Employment Law.
Scroggs
Just about every airline in this and most other countries employs a completely and blatant unofficial discriminatory policy. There are numerous airlines still not interviewing canidates over the age of 28, 32, 34 or 35, even CTC were doing it up until the last second before 1 Oct 06 when the new law came in and expressley forbids this!! I get the feeling that there will not suddenly be a rush of 45 year old pilots to go CTC ATP scheme, wings scheme or going to Flybe now will there.
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PARC A320 F/O's wanted for Dublin - Is it Aer Lingus??