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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 24th Mar 2017, 08:03
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I always find it worrying when people post on here seemingly intent on spending insane amounts of money, without actually knowing what they are paying for. There is no ATPL route at CTC, or any flight school. You cannot go to a flight school and leave with an ATPL. You will get a CPL with an ME-IR, ATPL theory complete and an MCC/JOC (affectionately called AQC by CTC). That aside, there seems to be some kind of perception here that the course at CTC is a difficult one and that the standards are high. Please don't be fooled by the sales pitch. The standards are just are just as low as anywhere else. You will find people passing and getting jobs who have little to no theory knowledge and very little in the way of flying skills. A lot of people here need to open their eyes to the reality.
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 08:38
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Originally Posted by Scouseflier85
Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education I am 31 to be precise and currently an engineer in the motor industry but aviation has long been a passion of mine any information would be greatly appreciated many thanks
Scouse, I started a white tail integrated program at CTC the week before my 36th birthday. Been on the line with easyJet now for over a year, and was successful in the BA direct entry pilot selection at the end of last year, just waiting for a start date.

So, age is definitely not an impediment! In fact out on the line, I'd say it was a significant advantage, skippers appreciate talking to a bloke (or girl) who has a bit of life experience and not someone who's 20 and just fallen out of school and into a training school on the back of Mum & Dad's ££.

Don't get me wrong, it's bloody hard work, and living with a bunch of 'kids' for 18 months while you complete your training who are 10 plus years younger than you and have a very different outlook on life is not easy. But it's relatively short term, and when you finally get sat in the right hand seat you will appreciate it much more.

I spent 10 years in the motor trade too, albeit in sales (don't hate on me! ) and during a difficult day, I often think to myself "I could still be selling cars!" It definitely helps to put the tougher times (and there will be some) into context with your previous career, which makes them so much easier to deal with.

Hope that helps, good luck!
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 16:07
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There are obviously more people in their early 20s on the course, but plenty of people slightly older too. You certainly won't be on your own. If you are good enough to pass the airline interview then they don't care how old you are.

Like someone has said don't believe the whole sales pitch on "ultra superior standards" and that BS. If you can pass the tests and come out the other end you have just as good a chance as anyone else.
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 20:26
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Older cadets

Originally Posted by Scouseflier85
Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education I am 31 to be precise and currently an engineer in the motor industry but aviation has long been a passion of mine any information would be greatly appreciated many thanks
I started training with CTC just before my 31st birthday and was employed by easyJet for four years without even an interview (I left to go to a different carrier with a different lifestyle). Passing the ATPL exams was hard work because there is so much to learn but very achieveable. If you put in the time you should get the results.
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Old 28th Mar 2017, 17:01
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Having attended the CTC Open Day on Saturday my biggest concern was the removal of/modification of (both were mentioned) their Performance Protection. So far i've been unable to get a clear answer, both on the day and after from their career advisors, of exactly what it will look like post 1 July so this is a potential game changer for me. Did anybody else pick up on that and get any clearer answers from anyone at CTC?
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Old 28th Mar 2017, 20:27
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Originally Posted by planesandthings
If you were not to pass the interview you would then be given the opportunity to join Route 3 EasyJet ATPL (subject to an offer) which would be £123,800 (30k for Type Rating which can be bonded) unless you wish to prefer just continue as a regular whitetail cadet (or do not meet pass EasyJet ATPL interview).
Sorry but this is incorrect. If you were not to pass the any assessment for Generation easyJet then you could be offered whitetail in the best case, or in the worst rejected from the school altogether. Each of the three routes lead to the same position, but are offered depending on easyJet's confidence in you to be able to complete the course, with Route 1 (MPL) indicating a high level of confidence, and Route 3 being lower, but still enough.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 08:29
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Originally Posted by okay hars
Omg I want to apply too!!! I contacted CTC aviation they told maybe around April or May just like last year. Do sign up for course updates
Really? when did you contacted them? cause i've been contacted them from january but their reply just "we don't know yet, as it's Qatar decision not us"
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 10:04
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The best scheme being operated at the moment is the Thomas Cook/Iago Platinum Pilot scheme. There is no upfront TR cost, just 400 quid for the assessment days. IAGO and Thomas Cook pay all the costs for TR, base training/line training for the successful cadets.
The scheme is due to re-open during Spring 2017 - http://www.iagoplatinum.com/
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 08:36
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Originally Posted by Millasaurus
Sorry but this is incorrect. If you were not to pass the any assessment for Generation easyJet then you could be offered whitetail in the best case, or in the worst rejected from the school altogether. Each of the three routes lead to the same position, but are offered depending on easyJet's confidence in you to be able to complete the course, with Route 1 (MPL) indicating a high level of confidence, and Route 3 being lower, but still enough.
Sorry, I didn't word it right. If you were not to pass to Route 2 standard but passed to Route 3 then obviously EasyJet ATPL would be offered unless you fail altogether and fall back to Whitetail or nothing.
Sure, all three routes lead to the same job, however I'd seriously think long and hard about spending £123,800 on an airline scheme that is nothing more than a glamorized whitetail where you get a job offer a bit earlier (Totally conditional until after ATPL results) and airline specific training . It's an unjustified extra £20k to get the same job!
Strangely someone on whitetail might now actually end up better off than an EasyJet Route 3 if they get the opportunity to join BA, now that BA has ended FPP and replaced it with whitetail hiring!

People will keep paying though, regardless...
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 13:31
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Whilst that kind of makes sense. You are forgetting the fact that the £120k is inclusive of a type rating. Yes you may pay less to be on a standard whitetail but you will still end up paying for a type rating at the end of it (provided you don't get a job with an airline that pays for a type rating).

You sign a conditional offer of employment, just the same as route 1 & 2, on route 3. It is certainly a safer route that a standalone whitetail route.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 14:46
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Hey everyone,

I have been planning on applying to CTC for the white tail route (ATPL) and am looking to have my selection centre in late Aprile/early May. I have also applied to generation easy jet through CTC and have been succesful in getting to stage 2.

Now I have learnt that easyjet split their selection into 2 stages (first day is technical ie numerical and PILAPT i would assume) second day, if successful on first ( would be non-technical ie 1-1 interview and group exercise).

My questions are:

1) Are the technical tests the same as for Virgin's MPL and CTC's whitetail selection process for easyjet?
2) If succesful at the first and second day but not meeting easyjet's criteria (or simply not beating all other candidiates) would you still be eligable for the whitetail route with CTC?
3) What if you are succesful at the first stage (technical) but not second day, would you have to start from scratch and have to go through all stages (technical and non-technical) for the CTC white tail route? If so you'd have to wait 3 more months I would assume?


I had been unsuccesful in the PILAPT during my Virgin MPL selection day in January, had been planning to go through the whitetail process with CTC when I was informed about getting to easyjet's selection day(s) out of the blue (having applied in late 2016)so am trying to get an idea what would be most suited to me. I cannot afford to fail again and am pretty confident (with sufficent preperation) I could pass CTC's selection process in April/May but with easyjet's selection day/process being quite different to Virgin's/CTC's whitetail route I am unsure about how to proceed to one way or another end up on an ATPL course in the near future.


if anyone could help I would REALLY appreciate it.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 23:44
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Originally Posted by GHav1664
Having attended the CTC Open Day on Saturday my biggest concern was the removal of/modification of (both were mentioned) their Performance Protection. So far i've been unable to get a clear answer, both on the day and after from their career advisors, of exactly what it will look like post 1 July so this is a potential game changer for me. Did anybody else pick up on that and get any clearer answers from anyone at CTC?

I have a feeling this comment may have been overlooked. Are you sure they're removing their performance protection. That's a HUGE deal!
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 08:18
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1) Are the technical tests the same as for Virgin's MPL and CTC's whitetail selection process for easyjet?
YES
2) If succesful at the first and second day but not meeting easyjet's criteria (or simply not beating all other candidiates) would you still be eligable for the whitetail route with CTC?
Yes and no, depends on your performance, might be eligeable for the whitetail.
3) What if you are succesful at the first stage (technical) but not second day, would you have to start from scratch and have to go through all stages (technical and non-technical) for the CTC white tail route? If so you'd have to wait 3 more months I would assume?
The selection process for each programs are tailored differently and aren't linked to each other. In some rare cases, you were able to transfer technical test result so you didn't have to re-sit some of the test, very uncanny I was one of the few who ware allowed to do that, from route 4 AQC to ATP AQC, but don't take it for grounded.

I had been unsuccesful in the PILAPT during my Virgin MPL selection day in January, had been planning to go through the whitetail process with CTC when I was informed about getting to easyjet's selection day(s) out of the blue (having applied in late 2016)so am trying to get an idea what would be most suited to me. I cannot afford to fail again and am pretty confident (with sufficent preperation) I could pass CTC's selection process in April/May but with easyjet's selection day/process being quite different to Virgin's/CTC's whitetail route I am unsure about how to proceed to one way or another end up on an ATPL course in the near future.
As a said before, no link between those programs, you can fail EZY and Virgin and still be able to apply for the whitetail, do not hesitate to ask CTC
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 10:11
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Originally Posted by Maverick97
I have a feeling this comment may have been overlooked. Are you sure they're removing their performance protection. That's a HUGE deal!
I am certain that is what was briefed on the Open Day. However, having harassed the CTC Career Advisors the best response I could get was yesterday and said; 'The cost of the training programmes and the Performance Protection will be reviewed from July 1st, so we would not be able to provide any information until after that date'.

Obviously, I'm not in a position to attempt to second guess what they are going to do, but I will be delaying my application until after that date.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 13:19
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It's worth remembering that, whilst the performance protection is a good back-up to have, it isn't a bullet proof solution. It's all judged on a case by case basis with no (published) hard or fast rules for when a cadet would or wouldn't get their money back. Especially in the unfortunate case that you pass the course but don't meet the hold pool standard (85% ATPL pass average I think?), I doubt you would get much if any money back and your job prospects would be significantly worse..

That said, performance protection provides a lot of reassurance in CTC's confidence in their own selection criteria. IF it goes (and it's only a PPRUNE rumour atm...) then you'd have to question why IMO - are they seeing more cadets "fail"?, are they planning on taking more 'risks' with who they let start the course?, is the quality of their instruction slipping? - why else would they need to stop it?

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 2nd Apr 2017 at 15:20.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 10:26
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Originally Posted by Airone2977
YES
Yes and no, depends on your performance, might be eligeable for the whitetail.
The selection process for each programs are tailored differently and aren't linked to each other. In some rare cases, you were able to transfer technical test result so you didn't have to re-sit some of the test, very uncanny I was one of the few who ware allowed to do that, from route 4 AQC to ATP AQC, but don't take it for grounded.

As a said before, no link between those programs, you can fail EZY and Virgin and still be able to apply for the whitetail, do not hesitate to ask CTC
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the response mate!

So EZY, Virgin and CTC all use the same technical tests (numerical/PILAPT)? So should I expect any differences (and thus prepare accordingly) for the day 1 selection day for EZY from Virgin's selection day? (or prepare for the same stuff I had for Virgin?)

Once again, thanks!
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 10:28
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Originally Posted by ManUtd1999
Especially in the unfortunate case that you pass the course but don't meet the hold pool standard (85% ATPL pass average I think?),
Hey, could you expand on this please? What are the criteria for entering the hold pool?
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 12:12
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So EZY, Virgin and CTC all use the same technical tests (numerical/PILAPT)? So should I expect any differences (and thus prepare accordingly) for the day 1 selection day for EZY from Virgin's selection day? (or prepare for the same stuff I had for Virgin?)
If the assesment day is set at Dibden Manor, it will be exactly the same numeracy/PILAPT test, however maths change frequently but no need to worried about, similar questions but different number
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 17:19
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This page explains is pretty well, I too was unaware of this until a few months ago.

Week 26: Module 3 Exams & New Zealand - Pilot George, CTC Aviation Cadet Blog

Basically, 85% average will ensure you're eligible for most airlines in the hold pool. Less than 85% and you may be excluded from some airlines. Similar requirements exist for the flying side of training.

I'd stress that I'm just repeating information from other sources, checking with CTC directly is probably the best way to go.

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 4th Apr 2017 at 17:57.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 22:14
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Anyone know if the Qatar selection is the same as the EZY/virgin/whitetail?
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