The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
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Dear all,
just wanted to apologise if I may have offended anyone with my perhaps slightly biased view particularly being slightly ott with the whole house loosing scenario, so again apologies. It was just my way of venting my frustrations I suppose. I am not stupid. I know the Market is in a bad way and perhaps my opinion will change as time passes as a jobless pilot but we will just have to wait and see. So particular apologies to
other former cadets of ctc who are finding things difficult. I only have the ctc propaganda to go on as to what former cadets are up to. Needless to say they don't talk about loosing houses and bankrupcy.
Anyway i'll stay positive and the point I was making is that I have no regrets about ctc at this point.
Whilst I understand where people are coming from I just think it's a shame people are dropping out of possible training due to the opinions expressed on this forum.
I've said my piece now people and without my Tongue in my cheek so perhaps any replies may be less abusive.
Good luck.
just wanted to apologise if I may have offended anyone with my perhaps slightly biased view particularly being slightly ott with the whole house loosing scenario, so again apologies. It was just my way of venting my frustrations I suppose. I am not stupid. I know the Market is in a bad way and perhaps my opinion will change as time passes as a jobless pilot but we will just have to wait and see. So particular apologies to
other former cadets of ctc who are finding things difficult. I only have the ctc propaganda to go on as to what former cadets are up to. Needless to say they don't talk about loosing houses and bankrupcy.
Anyway i'll stay positive and the point I was making is that I have no regrets about ctc at this point.
Whilst I understand where people are coming from I just think it's a shame people are dropping out of possible training due to the opinions expressed on this forum.
I've said my piece now people and without my Tongue in my cheek so perhaps any replies may be less abusive.
Good luck.
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I can't be bothered with this anymore. I actually feel bad about some of my comments and yet the abuse continues.
Everyone abuses each other with the protection of a keyboard and screen when they definitely wouldn't have the balls to say it to someones face. So you can
just get on with it.
Everyone abuses each other with the protection of a keyboard and screen when they definitely wouldn't have the balls to say it to someones face. So you can
just get on with it.
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It's not a shame if people are dropping out of applying to CTC due to comments on here, it's a very good, sensible, smart thing to do. The market is terrible at the moment. Come back in a couple of years and see how it's going then.
WBV
WBV
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Jamer says:
No it isn't. They are saving themselves from ruining their lives No one's saying they should never do it, just not now. And these aren't opinions on these forums, these are facts. It is a fact that a lot of ex ctc will be going bankrupt in the next few months, myself included. It is a fact that there are hardly any jobs. These are not opinions.
You say that there's no point in having a go at you, but there is. As someone else said, this thread can dissuade people from making a horrendous mistake. This isn't about CTC, I'm not disputing that their training is good. This is about the state of the industry. You can't expect to make outrageous, naieve and stupid statements about not caring if you lose your house and not expect to get flamed for it.
People like you don't seem to understand the difference between being negative and being realistic. Myself and many others on this forum are giving realistic advice to people thinking of starting training now. Just because we're saying don't train now, it doesn't mean we are negative, we are simply telling them that things are bad now. You seem to think this is not being supportive. I disagree, I think it is being supportive.
Although your comments are infuriating, I do feel sorry for you and people in your situation but you have to man up and face reality.
I definitely have the balls to say this to your face. If you were just down the road I'd gladly come round and tell you this. PM me your number if you want and I'll give you a ring.
I just think it's a shame people are dropping out of possible training due to the opinions expressed on this forum.
You say that there's no point in having a go at you, but there is. As someone else said, this thread can dissuade people from making a horrendous mistake. This isn't about CTC, I'm not disputing that their training is good. This is about the state of the industry. You can't expect to make outrageous, naieve and stupid statements about not caring if you lose your house and not expect to get flamed for it.
People like you don't seem to understand the difference between being negative and being realistic. Myself and many others on this forum are giving realistic advice to people thinking of starting training now. Just because we're saying don't train now, it doesn't mean we are negative, we are simply telling them that things are bad now. You seem to think this is not being supportive. I disagree, I think it is being supportive.
Although your comments are infuriating, I do feel sorry for you and people in your situation but you have to man up and face reality.
Everyone abuses each other with the protection of a keyboard and screen when they definitely wouldn't have the balls to say it to someones face.
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I definitely have the balls to say this to your face. If you were just down the road I'd gladly come round and tell you this. PM me your number if you want and I'll give you a ring.
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I thought sensible discussion was the normal communication medium between people who disagree on something?
This is not a parent/child or teacher/student relationship so find it quite arrogant that you would think it's your place to 'teach them a lesson'.
Edit: I can see however your previous posts indicate you're ex-CTC and going through what most would see as the worst case scenario of bankruptcy so understand why you would have such strong feelings on the subject.
This is not a parent/child or teacher/student relationship so find it quite arrogant that you would think it's your place to 'teach them a lesson'.
Edit: I can see however your previous posts indicate you're ex-CTC and going through what most would see as the worst case scenario of bankruptcy so understand why you would have such strong feelings on the subject.
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It makes me angry that they profit from the ruination of others and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. They are evil, that's all there is to it. As there is no justice in this world the best we can hope for is that there is a God and he can judge them one day.
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Ok, good idea, but after consulting with a legal expert about the merits of your idea I was informed it could result in some legal problems for me!!! As a result I have been advised not to carry out a samuri sword attack on CTC managment!!!! Thanks for the input though.
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CTC Are Dishonest
Went through Dibden Manor years ago. Ongoing career..... BUT
The management perpetuated a tissue of lies through their instructors and gofers, which we all laughed about amongst ourselves. (All experienced pilots, most left seat on heavies). Those were easy days, 2003/04, with jobs lined up for those who kept their heads down and went through the motions. High standards, corporate propaganda to accompany.
We knew they lied, and we predicted it would all end in tears when their (CTC) greed came up against market difficulties. Today the "difficulties" are immense. As is their greed. CTC have the audacity to continue, making claims which need challenging legally.
Nobody should consider spending money with these sharks. Unless they have a cast-iron case for litigation prepared.
And the same applies for Oxford. No better. In some respects, worse.
Greggs/Morrisons/Tesco/Boots & c. Better job prospects for trainee managers, and no debt.
The problem is that many "intelligent" prospective professional airline pilots believe that they are better than the rest. CTC /OXFORD will outwit you.
The management perpetuated a tissue of lies through their instructors and gofers, which we all laughed about amongst ourselves. (All experienced pilots, most left seat on heavies). Those were easy days, 2003/04, with jobs lined up for those who kept their heads down and went through the motions. High standards, corporate propaganda to accompany.
We knew they lied, and we predicted it would all end in tears when their (CTC) greed came up against market difficulties. Today the "difficulties" are immense. As is their greed. CTC have the audacity to continue, making claims which need challenging legally.
Nobody should consider spending money with these sharks. Unless they have a cast-iron case for litigation prepared.
And the same applies for Oxford. No better. In some respects, worse.
Greggs/Morrisons/Tesco/Boots & c. Better job prospects for trainee managers, and no debt.
The problem is that many "intelligent" prospective professional airline pilots believe that they are better than the rest. CTC /OXFORD will outwit you.
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...cringe
Greetings,
I rarely post anything on this but I thought I'd offer my view. I'm a CTC cadet.
Taking a positive view.... I will have completed my training to a high standard, in a short period of time.
However, the right hand jet seat is being pulled out from behind us as the cost burden on the trainee increases.
With 20/20 hindsight, I'd have carried on in my old job, done the modular route of hour building etc, kept working until the last moment before doing my IR and then apply to a turbo prop operator.
I know, it's not a jet and I'd likely have to fork out for a type rating there too but I'd still save a huge amount of cash. Besides, UK turbo prop operators are really competitive now in the domestic flight market.
There are all sorts of views etc being posted here, mine's just one of them and I'm not blaming CTC, but to all the people who are reading this and are thinking about applying (to any FTO for a full time course), all things considered, I wouldn't.
I rarely post anything on this but I thought I'd offer my view. I'm a CTC cadet.
Taking a positive view.... I will have completed my training to a high standard, in a short period of time.
However, the right hand jet seat is being pulled out from behind us as the cost burden on the trainee increases.
With 20/20 hindsight, I'd have carried on in my old job, done the modular route of hour building etc, kept working until the last moment before doing my IR and then apply to a turbo prop operator.
I know, it's not a jet and I'd likely have to fork out for a type rating there too but I'd still save a huge amount of cash. Besides, UK turbo prop operators are really competitive now in the domestic flight market.
There are all sorts of views etc being posted here, mine's just one of them and I'm not blaming CTC, but to all the people who are reading this and are thinking about applying (to any FTO for a full time course), all things considered, I wouldn't.
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Hindsight is best
102roadlegal... I agree that with 20/20 hindsight I would have done it the modular way and kept working too.
CTC has been hit really hard by the financial crisis that the only way they stay afloat is by saying they have high quality training, but the fact is they dont anymore. The pass rates for CTC cadets has dropped and will continue to drop.
I have to agree with you again.. Maybe CTC will improve again in years to come, but untill then I wouldn't apply either.
CTC has been hit really hard by the financial crisis that the only way they stay afloat is by saying they have high quality training, but the fact is they dont anymore. The pass rates for CTC cadets has dropped and will continue to drop.
There are all sorts of views etc being posted here, mine's just one of them and I'm not blaming CTC, but to all the people who are reading this and are thinking about applying (to any FTO for a full time course), all things considered, I wouldn't.
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Are you asking why are the pass rates dropping?
Several reasons I guess..
1. There are a lot more "I can pay cash cadets". ie Selection consists of "ability to pay" not "abilities"
2. The cost cutting in these organisations is huge. (esp. last 12 months)
3. Quality of training is limited to bare minimums now. (I was told CTC has cut upset training (extreem UA's) and other non essential training.
4. One good thing is CTC/OAA will not kick you off the course anymore (due to poor performance), because it will cost them too much.... Have you heard of anyone in the last 6months been removed?
I hope I have answered your question.
Several reasons I guess..
1. There are a lot more "I can pay cash cadets". ie Selection consists of "ability to pay" not "abilities"
2. The cost cutting in these organisations is huge. (esp. last 12 months)
3. Quality of training is limited to bare minimums now. (I was told CTC has cut upset training (extreem UA's) and other non essential training.
4. One good thing is CTC/OAA will not kick you off the course anymore (due to poor performance), because it will cost them too much.... Have you heard of anyone in the last 6months been removed?
I hope I have answered your question.
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Originally Posted by systematically
4. One good thing is CTC/OAA will not kick you off the course anymore (due to poor performance), because it will cost them too much.... Have you heard of anyone in the last 6months been removed?
In short, I don't think cadets were ever kicked off the course due to poor performance.
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Yes they were. I know this 100%.
Edit to add: Poor performance is subjective! I don't think all were kicked off due to poor performance, some weren't treated fairly IMHO. Which in my opinion is worse!!
Edit to add: Poor performance is subjective! I don't think all were kicked off due to poor performance, some weren't treated fairly IMHO. Which in my opinion is worse!!
Last edited by one post only!; 23rd Jan 2010 at 18:00.
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I know of several over 2008-2009. Although you must bear in mind that statistic is only for Wings Cadets - i.e. only if you get kicked out/leave after the foundation course. And seeing as the foundation course was taking 4-6 months there was a lot more time for people to leave and it not count!
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I can remember a few, i'd say the rate was higher than 1%. The selection process is a little less involved now so that may have an effect as well.
WBV
Ps ditto what one post only said
WBV
Ps ditto what one post only said
Last edited by Wing_Bound_Vortex; 23rd Jan 2010 at 18:38.