The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
For anyone thinking of funding their training through a loan in the present climate take a look at Jasons post #1534 here http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...ml#post5143345
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Change in training timetable
Hi Everyone,
I have noticed that on the CTC website they have added that there will possibly be a change in the training timetable in the future. Does anyone know any more details?
Thanks
I have noticed that on the CTC website they have added that there will possibly be a change in the training timetable in the future. Does anyone know any more details?
Thanks
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Jason 121, very glad you posted that, it's important to the new guys and girls that are thinking about taking a commitment on such as this, to actually see what the outcome could be. Best of luck with it all and I hope that you can secure a permanent contract as soon as possible.
As a matter of interest how are CTC helping you to stay current throughout this period?
WBV
As a matter of interest how are CTC helping you to stay current throughout this period?
WBV
Simple answer .. they won't
A guy finished with CTC last year, sat in the pool for over a year whilst hanging round for CTC. Managed to get HIMSELF in to Air Malta but needed his IR renewed so that he could start his Airbus TR... what did CTC say... "Sorry were too busy, you'll have to renew it elswhere at you own expence"
Cheers
A guy finished with CTC last year, sat in the pool for over a year whilst hanging round for CTC. Managed to get HIMSELF in to Air Malta but needed his IR renewed so that he could start his Airbus TR... what did CTC say... "Sorry were too busy, you'll have to renew it elswhere at you own expence"
Cheers
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Unfortunately that's the answer i was expecting.......
You'd have to be mad to start doing a course like this in this climate, leave it a couple of years at least. It's such a shame, to see and meet people coming through onto the line on temporary contracts with no way to pay off their loans. Anyone thinking about starting now don't, just don't.
WBV
You'd have to be mad to start doing a course like this in this climate, leave it a couple of years at least. It's such a shame, to see and meet people coming through onto the line on temporary contracts with no way to pay off their loans. Anyone thinking about starting now don't, just don't.
WBV
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I have to respectfully disagree with some of your comments WBV.
This has always been about calculated risk for us CTC pilots. Sometimes Lady Luck smiles, sometimes she frowns.
I've established a means to continue fiinancing my loans whilst things are quiet and I'd like to think most other people in the hold pool have too.
If all aspiring pilots followed your advice and held off training for at least 2 (a couple you said?) of years, where would the training industry be? We need the constancy and numbers are tapering off anyway from what I can tell (speaking to friends who are instructing etc.). To simply say STOP! is financial suicide to companies never mind the consequent issues it would generate as and when things do pick up.
Valued contributors to this fourm kept reiterating - it's about perserverance, dedication and making the best of what's available. Train slow, train cheap, think carefully, find and sieze whatever opportunities you can et al.
Also, there's nothing unexpected or untoward if someone from within the CTC hold pool finds an opportunity elsewhere of their own accord - good for them, I say. I've never thought of CTC as a creche, instead a working partner who will help me whilst I help myself.
Starting a course with CTC now isn't a bad thing - you just need to plan and prepare properly. They're still a high quality trainer and modernising/keeping abreast of change as best as possible I would say.
Besides, being qualified and keeping oneself current in terms of study and stick and rudder skills on the likes of single engine AC isn't exhorbitantly expensive considering the tens of thousands of £'s we've spent already. Hey, I know that even if (or as) and when I get a job flying commercially, I'll still want to go flying on a recreational basis to keep my hand in with the old puddle jumpers anyway (they're too much fun I think)!
It's the expectancy of some people that they will finish a modular or integrated course... and then simply step into a big shiny jet is what I think causes many of the current issues.
This has always been about calculated risk for us CTC pilots. Sometimes Lady Luck smiles, sometimes she frowns.
I've established a means to continue fiinancing my loans whilst things are quiet and I'd like to think most other people in the hold pool have too.
If all aspiring pilots followed your advice and held off training for at least 2 (a couple you said?) of years, where would the training industry be? We need the constancy and numbers are tapering off anyway from what I can tell (speaking to friends who are instructing etc.). To simply say STOP! is financial suicide to companies never mind the consequent issues it would generate as and when things do pick up.
Valued contributors to this fourm kept reiterating - it's about perserverance, dedication and making the best of what's available. Train slow, train cheap, think carefully, find and sieze whatever opportunities you can et al.
Also, there's nothing unexpected or untoward if someone from within the CTC hold pool finds an opportunity elsewhere of their own accord - good for them, I say. I've never thought of CTC as a creche, instead a working partner who will help me whilst I help myself.
Starting a course with CTC now isn't a bad thing - you just need to plan and prepare properly. They're still a high quality trainer and modernising/keeping abreast of change as best as possible I would say.
Besides, being qualified and keeping oneself current in terms of study and stick and rudder skills on the likes of single engine AC isn't exhorbitantly expensive considering the tens of thousands of £'s we've spent already. Hey, I know that even if (or as) and when I get a job flying commercially, I'll still want to go flying on a recreational basis to keep my hand in with the old puddle jumpers anyway (they're too much fun I think)!
It's the expectancy of some people that they will finish a modular or integrated course... and then simply step into a big shiny jet is what I think causes many of the current issues.
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You can't really recommend starting training to keep the training organisations going!!!! Honorable I am sure but not the best reason for someone to start training! Do what's right for you, not to keep CTC/OAT etc in business.
Even if everyone did stop training now there will still be more than enough pilots in hold pools or unemployed etc to keep the airlines going! To be frank, the less people there are in the wings (pun intended) waiting to join the better the T&C's of those new joiners will be. Just look at flexi-crew. That is here to stay now.
Start now or wait, million dollar question! I agree with you FBF in that starting now may not be a bad thing but plan and prepare PROPERLY.
You are lucky, you can afford to graduate, keep paying your loans, feed yourself, keep a roof over your head and even keep flying for a protracted period!!! Not many people can! For those in your position, start now, what the heck. If you have enough cash to keep going for 2/3 years after graduation before getting a full time contract do it. If you have no ties so you can follow the work and not worry about paying the bills/looking after babies etc then go for it.
A lot of people are not that lucky. Family/life/financial commitments make it difficult. This is where WBV's words should be heeded. If money will be tight after graduation and you can't afford to live on contract work for years then STOP! Wait till things pick up. You might miss the initial upswing and hiring panic but there will always be jobs. Don't rush and bankrupt yourself.
Myself, WBV and others might sound more pessimistic than you but its because we chat to the new guys on the line on the contracts and hear the fears and concerns. When will I be working next, where and for how long?!? Not nice. The latest lot to join EZY are going to be kept on over the winter on flexi work to keep current which is great news. They don't know where they will be based though and could have to move abroad for 6 months and then return to the UK - where and on what contract again they don't know. Better than nothing though!
Do what's right for your own set of circumstances. No-one else can tell you whether to do it or not. Certainly not to help FTO's out anyway! If you can REALLY afford it and have a backup plan(s) then go for it. If not, wait. There will still be jets needing to be flown in a few years.
FBF, enjoy being able to work doing a "normal" job and do some puddle jumping when you can. Catch up with all your family and friends as much as you can now before shift work makes a serious dent in your social life!
See you on the line soon hopefully.
Even if everyone did stop training now there will still be more than enough pilots in hold pools or unemployed etc to keep the airlines going! To be frank, the less people there are in the wings (pun intended) waiting to join the better the T&C's of those new joiners will be. Just look at flexi-crew. That is here to stay now.
Start now or wait, million dollar question! I agree with you FBF in that starting now may not be a bad thing but plan and prepare PROPERLY.
You are lucky, you can afford to graduate, keep paying your loans, feed yourself, keep a roof over your head and even keep flying for a protracted period!!! Not many people can! For those in your position, start now, what the heck. If you have enough cash to keep going for 2/3 years after graduation before getting a full time contract do it. If you have no ties so you can follow the work and not worry about paying the bills/looking after babies etc then go for it.
A lot of people are not that lucky. Family/life/financial commitments make it difficult. This is where WBV's words should be heeded. If money will be tight after graduation and you can't afford to live on contract work for years then STOP! Wait till things pick up. You might miss the initial upswing and hiring panic but there will always be jobs. Don't rush and bankrupt yourself.
Myself, WBV and others might sound more pessimistic than you but its because we chat to the new guys on the line on the contracts and hear the fears and concerns. When will I be working next, where and for how long?!? Not nice. The latest lot to join EZY are going to be kept on over the winter on flexi work to keep current which is great news. They don't know where they will be based though and could have to move abroad for 6 months and then return to the UK - where and on what contract again they don't know. Better than nothing though!
Do what's right for your own set of circumstances. No-one else can tell you whether to do it or not. Certainly not to help FTO's out anyway! If you can REALLY afford it and have a backup plan(s) then go for it. If not, wait. There will still be jets needing to be flown in a few years.
FBF, enjoy being able to work doing a "normal" job and do some puddle jumping when you can. Catch up with all your family and friends as much as you can now before shift work makes a serious dent in your social life!
See you on the line soon hopefully.
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Will they still use Bristol then or do it all in house with CTC instructors??
Last edited by one post only!; 26th Aug 2009 at 08:45. Reason: Edit as post below answered my question!
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Originally Posted by DJFingersCrossed
Apparently, according to rumours...
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There Are No Guarantees With Any Of It!
Much in support of what WWW has said in previous pages, I wrote the following 8.5 years ago, and nothing's changed since! "Some words of advice for wannabes at all levels" <-- click link
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Change of course structure
Hey everyone,
As many of you are aware the CTC Wings Cadet course structure is due to change within the next couple of months (depending on approval from the CAA). This means the course will start with 23 weeks ATPL ground school studying at Nursling prior to getting down to the practical stuff in Hamilton.
I'm on CP80 starting in Jan where the new structure will almost certainly be in place.
It seems a bit more difficult from the old way, as you can't apply anything you've learned until 6 months after the start of the course. Has anyone else got an opinion on this?
As many of you are aware the CTC Wings Cadet course structure is due to change within the next couple of months (depending on approval from the CAA). This means the course will start with 23 weeks ATPL ground school studying at Nursling prior to getting down to the practical stuff in Hamilton.
I'm on CP80 starting in Jan where the new structure will almost certainly be in place.
It seems a bit more difficult from the old way, as you can't apply anything you've learned until 6 months after the start of the course. Has anyone else got an opinion on this?
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The ATPL theory is taught in this manner at OAA, so is a proven method. There is nothing particularly 'applicable' about the ATPL studies that can be used during the early PPL/CPL/IR training anyway, in fact I think it is better to understand the theory before getting into the aeroplane.
I'm unsure as to why they have done this, the flying pace was painfully slow as it was and doing some ATPL theory at least gave you something to do in the fog!
The attention paid to the ATPL studies was perhaps not what it should have been, merely relying on the utterly fantastic fortnight at Bristol. Perhaps the CAA have noticed this and want more of a focus on actually covering the material.
On a side note - with every major airline in Europe talking about redundancies and base closures, people in the CP40s still looking for full time employment (CP80 did you say?), and interest rates set to soar. Are you really sure that your business plan is robust enough to even consider starting to train in this environment?!
I'm unsure as to why they have done this, the flying pace was painfully slow as it was and doing some ATPL theory at least gave you something to do in the fog!
The attention paid to the ATPL studies was perhaps not what it should have been, merely relying on the utterly fantastic fortnight at Bristol. Perhaps the CAA have noticed this and want more of a focus on actually covering the material.
On a side note - with every major airline in Europe talking about redundancies and base closures, people in the CP40s still looking for full time employment (CP80 did you say?), and interest rates set to soar. Are you really sure that your business plan is robust enough to even consider starting to train in this environment?!
If only... it got to a point where they threatened to stop people leaving NZ unless they had finished all the progress tests first.
It's probably not the worst idea to do it all before going out there - much of my ATPL theory knowledge has come from actually working on the line rather than trying to learn from the Bristol CBT software that has been the norm until now. Doing it all beforehand will make you actually pay attention to the stuff rather than staring into space while hearing your finger go "click... click... click..." on the mouse.
I'd echo jb5000's point though that all it means is you'll have less to do out there in the inevitable gaps in the flying due to weather / scheduling / etc etc. Still, more time to enjoy the Hamilton 'nightlife'...
It's probably not the worst idea to do it all before going out there - much of my ATPL theory knowledge has come from actually working on the line rather than trying to learn from the Bristol CBT software that has been the norm until now. Doing it all beforehand will make you actually pay attention to the stuff rather than staring into space while hearing your finger go "click... click... click..." on the mouse.
I'd echo jb5000's point though that all it means is you'll have less to do out there in the inevitable gaps in the flying due to weather / scheduling / etc etc. Still, more time to enjoy the Hamilton 'nightlife'...
Great! After 7 years that makes just under £90k to pay back, with disastrous employment prospects and the probable requirement to put someone's property on the line for it as well. Where do I join the queue?! 
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When you finish the course and don't get a flying job, can't afford the secured loan repayment and are forced to sell your house don't come whinging on here.
Seriously... Anybody who starts the course now must be living in complete denial.
Seriously... Anybody who starts the course now must be living in complete denial.
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It is a bit of a risky business, but it's always been that way.
jb500; Have you ever considered working for an airline based in one of the emerging market countries such as the UAE, Brazil, Mexico? Europe, although desirable, may not be feasible at this moment in time.
With regards to BBVA's interest rate, it's: Libor, 3 months + 2.25%, which totals to about 3.05% at the moment. Pound sterling, Libor, 3 months is currently at 0.8% per annum, the lowest in my lifetime - What a bargain! Although it's likely to be a lot higher than that in a couple of years.
jb500; Have you ever considered working for an airline based in one of the emerging market countries such as the UAE, Brazil, Mexico? Europe, although desirable, may not be feasible at this moment in time.
With regards to BBVA's interest rate, it's: Libor, 3 months + 2.25%, which totals to about 3.05% at the moment. Pound sterling, Libor, 3 months is currently at 0.8% per annum, the lowest in my lifetime - What a bargain! Although it's likely to be a lot higher than that in a couple of years.