MX16

Just for the record, CTC's obligation does not end after your initial 6 month contract. Not sure about the contracts being handed out nowadays but back in the day (well 3 years ago!) your association with CTC ended once you had been employed on a permanent basis (i.e. a full time contract after your 6 month training contract), or, after you had been in the holding pool over a certain period of time (can't remember how long). CTC will continue to work hard to get you placed on a permanent basis and that is one of the benefits of the Wings scheme. Granted, that's a fairly hard task in today's market but they will not just cut you loose and I know that from personal experience.

RobStob

Is anyone familiar with the main reasons for failure at phase 4? I understand there is an average pass rate of 85%, however I have yet to encounter anyone who has failed it? Do you have to completely balls it up to fail or can subtle errors cause you to aswell? My understanding is that if you get this far, you've already pretty much demonstrated what they really want to see.

Cheers.

Bambe

I failed at stage 4 mate... CTC then offered me to reapply in 6 months and I finally went through it and I'm flying to NZ in 10 days.

I knew at the first attempt I hadn't made it but I didn't crash the sim... It's all about your accuracy. If you are asked to turn right with 30 deg bank and maintain 10 000 ft, try not to climb down or miss the required heading.

I personnaly found it the hardest as you have almost done everything and you have to handle a big jet.

Practise your flight sim and try to get used to the 73 panel so that you won't have any big surprise when entering the sim.

The worst is when you think that this day can be the best or the worst of your life so far....
Good luck

RobStob

Thanks for your reply, Bambe. Hard luck on failing the first time round, but it looks as though you're all sorted now! Well done and good luck for NZ. Does anyone who had a PPL before sitting phase 4 know of the main differences in the demands of the sim ride between those with and without one? I know it's tailored for the individual, but it would be great if someone could advise me of the kind of things to expect with around 58 hours flying time total, compared with only a few. Is the electronic trimmer really odd to familiarise yourself with compared to a manual wheel trimmer found in light aircraft?

Bambe

I was in your case with 45 hours flying hours.
as they say you're not supposed to be able to fly a jet, simply handle it whilst taking information.
You need to focus on your panel and listen to the instructor meanwhile.
Regarding the trim, be very gentle with your thumb you're flying a 55 tonnes and 1 more degres pitch can be a desastre.
It's all about flying a massive aircraft where every smal correction has its effect.

99jolegg

I had a PPL when I did my phase 4.

We climbed away from Hurn (training Captain did the takeoff) and I had control by 1000ft. He asked that I maintained the current rate of climb whilst he managed the thrust and that I level off at 8000ft. Tap the trim gently, don't let the huge whizz clunk sound alarm you, it's very dramatic for what it does.

Once we were level at 8000ft, he asked that I fly a few different headings whilst maintaining altitude, with 30 degrees of bank. After that, we did some steep turns for 180 degrees at 45 or 60 degrees of bank, can't remember which. Here is where it is really testing, you'll need a load of backpressure to stop the nose dropping but again he's just looking for accuracy and improvement.

He asked a few simple questions about the flight etc whilst doing this.

Lastly, he gave some descending turn instructions....maintain 1000ft whilst doing a standard rate turn to the left and roll out on xyz degrees. We levelled off at around 2000ft and he gave a vector for final. After that, I flew the ILS with a few instructions from him. He handled thrust the entire way through. I landed and he took control to stop it.

I think this is the norm for the sim assessment but it changes from instructor to instructor. Some ask difficult questions, some don't end up landing etc etc.

RobStob

Sounds like it's mainly important to just follow instructions. Even with a ppl, will they expect you to demonstrate anything not covered/detailed in the briefing? I.e, will they generally tell you what to do and what they're looking for?

99jolegg

No, they expect you to listen, learn and improve.

They'll brief you about what they will ask you to do, they'll brief you about what will happen when you do some of the tasks (i.e. you'll get a nose drop in a turn), they'll brief you on how to fly the aircraft and operate the necessary systems.

It's good fun, enjoy it.

RobStob

I'm sure I will. Cheers 99. I'm trying to get a bit of practice in with flight simulator, but I never use it and I find my joystick really odd to use!

Can I just check, does the EFIS installed on the 737 sim used have a speed tape next to the A.I, but no altitude tape? Hence, do you need to consult analogue/conventional instrumentation when referencing vertical speed and altitude? I followed a previous link to some 737-500 (?) cockpit panel images, but they weren't that clear. It would just be great to know the general layout of the instruments that need to be used during the sim ride so I don't really get too many surprises on the day.

Also, since I have a PPL, will it be necessary to revise anything in particular from the syllabus, or is it just my general skill after x amount of hours that they're interested in?

Thanks again.

chrisy08

Application "On Hold" as I am awaiting my full A Levels in May.. they emailed me to confirm I would need A-C in 2 of my A Level subjects.

Chris

air_wolf

thought ctc had sold the 737-5 full motion sim but still had the fixed based 737-NG?

the 737-5 does indeed have a speed tape on the main digital display, but no altitude tape. you'll have to look at the analogue altimeter for that. same goes for the VSI.

good luck with the sim.

RobStob

I've just got word that I passed my phase 4! Best day of my life!

Anyone heading out on cp72 in April? I could well be joining you!

Rob

Chilli Corneto

Well done Rob,

Told you not to worry!

See you in NZ hopefully.

Chilli.

M1K

Hey mate, its Mik here. I didnt get through.

I've got no experience so dont really know what went wrong. Do you know anything about Piranavan's result?

Well done again.

Mik

99jolegg

Congrats Rob, see you in April. There are some CP72ers on Facebook.

RobStob

Thanks Chilli, your help was invaluable! Much appreciated, and hopefully I'll get to meet you in the flesh in the not so distant future! Only thing is, they told me they've put me into the last available place on the April course, so did you get any notification that you were placed on it?

Mik, I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm really surprised you haven't made it, but getting this far means you can't have done too much wrong. Have they asked you to re-apply and told you what you did wrong? Haven't heard anything about Paranavan yet.

Thanks 99, and cheers for your comments and advice about phase 4. Hopefully I will indeed see you in April! I'll search facebook now. Obviously it's subject to sorting my loan out and getting the basic disclosure; I already have my medical.

Thanks for your comments, guys.

Rob.

M1K

Well I'd love to know what u did. I missed a few headings but was able to maintain height etc. I found it difficult but that's because the column took quite abit of getting used too. Was your flight pretty much perfect or did it take some getting used too? Let me know how the other gets on.

Chilli Corneto

Hi Rob,

I've been provisionally booked on the CP75 course so I'm not due out until July. However CTC have asked me if I would like to start earlier. I just have to sort out the remaining finances and get my Visa application back to them and I should be done. I can sort out the insurance quickly and received my disclosure this week. I got my class 1 last year.

I might be able to push my course date forward and join the CP73 / 74 course that departs May or June so long as there are places.

Bad luck M1K.

Of the people that I know that have failed stage 4 first time round, they passed on their second attempt! Good luck for next time.

Cheers,

Chilli.

Gareth Eccott

Congrats Rob,

Im off on 1st April for CP72 aswell. We've got alot to organise in a short period of time. You will receive an info pack in the next few days; loads of things to read. Very exciting stuff tho. Think we have to attend a 'development' day on the 26 March. See you then mate.

Well done again.

Gareth.

RobStob

Cheers Gareth, look forward to meeting you!

I hope I head off on that date; like you said, there's a lot of stuff to get sorted in such a tight time frame. I hope that pack arrives soon so I can get the ball rolling with everything.

Mik, I personally thought my flight was rubbish! I guess I was just expecting too much from myself based on my PPL. I too missed some headings and made quite a few errors, but I suppose we don't really know what they're looking for. I think I just showed a good learning curve and improvement, which is what they want. Did you get any spare capacity questions or maths questions in the sim? Once again mate, sorry you didn't make it this time, but I have no doubt whatsoever you'll walk it next time around. Hope I bump into you in the future at CTC! Keep me posted with how you get on.

Cheers, Rob.