Kerosine

There are a couple of sim assesors, they have different approaches, not to say one is better than the other of course.

99jolegg

Spaces for the HSBC interiew are full apparently. HSBC won't be offering the loan from this point onwards even if you're on a course for the future and are going through the paperwork to get it all organised.

Vbells

When you say they won't be offering the loan from this point onwards do you mean they won't be offering it to anyone at all? Does that mean that there is no longer a funding option for the terminally skint like myself?

Kerosine

Sounds like bad news.

99jolegg please clarify/expand as you have just broken (almost) the worst news possible for potential cadets!

Captain NowThen

I have been wondering, during research, how come HSBC were still offering a loan like this, given the current state of the economy and credit crunch etc when everyone else is battoning down the hatches.

I failed at stage 3 of the cityjet wings scheme recently. So if I'd passed and passed the sim check, I would have not been able to get the bond? If it's true about HSBC, surely places like CTC and OAA would have to stop their schemes that rely on the loan?

Sounds like the dream is on even more of hold. Back to FSX then.....

Kerosine

OAA don't have the kind of setup that CTC [used to?] have. CTC is the ONLY place you could get the cash without signing away grandmas/parents/random persons house as security. CTC do secure 30K, so as far as HSBC are concerned the total sum is partially secured.

If this goes CTC will still remain one the best JAA FTOs in the world with one of the highest employment rates, it just won't have the added bonus of free money (ahem), you will have to find the cash yourself.

bonalste

Well, I've just been informed that my unsecured loan for £77,000 has been approved with HSBC Southampton. Woohoo! £111,000 after interest...

When I was at the bank on Friday, I was advised that, from today (Wednesday 27th) the loan structure will be changing. They said that it didn't necessarily mean that the loan will no-longer be available, but that it may be that they further restrict the number of loans they provide (I know that before now they limited it to people living in the UK for the last 3 years), they may start performing a credit check (when I went on Friday they didn't do one of these, just a check of my spending habits), they may increase interest rates or, well, they might start asking for security. Are you completely certain that they are now not offering the unsecured loan full-stop?

watchmysix

Can anyone give me a more detailed time line and structure for the wings course during the 18 months after initially arriving in NZ?

I know about the 17 weeks for the first stage (does a valid PPL effect this?), but what happens next? Where do the ground school exams, CPL, IR etc fit in and how long can I expect each stage to take?

Planned time frames vs. realistic would also be useful.

Cheers WMS.

Kerosine

Typed (laboriously!) from the Training Programme schedule:

Phase 1: Foundation - 17 weeks

Flying - Up to 72 hours
Groundschool - 400 hours

Phase 2: Visual Flying Phase - 13 weeks

Single Engine - 28.6 hours
Multi Engine - 16.5 hours
Sim - 5.5 hours
Groundschool/CPL test - 400 hours

Phase 3: ATPLs - 3 weeks

Bristol Groundschool - 70 hours
Exams - 8 subjects

Phase 4: Instrument flying - 12 weeks

Twins - 31 hours
Sim - 24 hours
Groundschool - 347 hours

Phase 5: ATPLs - 5 weeks

Bristol Groundschool - 70
Exams - 6 subjects

Phase 6: IR - 9 weeks

Twins - 15 hours
Sim - 23 hours

Phase 7: Airline Qualification Course - 3 weeks

Classroom - 20 hours
Jet sim - 16 hours
Advanced Handling (MCC) - 1 week

Phase 8: TR - 9 weeks

Type training specified by airline

watchmysix

Thanks very much for the effort - an extremely well presented answer.

Other than for Bristol GS are there any other breaks when you can return to the UK e.g. between the first two phases?

Also is the first IR phase in NZ or Bournemouth?

With a valid PPL is the first 17 week phase reduced?

mattkcraven

You get time off before and after each bristol goundschool stint and they are the only times you return to the UK before starting stage 6 at Bournemouth. So thats stages 1, 2 & 4 which take place at Hamilton. If you have a valid PPL then you would normally be offered the short course foundation as well, now then back to the Met study.........

99jolegg

The application for loans has been extended, not sure how long by, possibly 1 month.

RAF_Techie101

So is the 111 grand still paid off over 7 years at an increased rate? Or does the 1000 squid a month still stand, just over a LOT longer...?

Kerosine

Who knows... Does anyone have any hard facts on any of this?

Salaries for newly qualified FOs?

Repayment structures?

Whether repayments are taxed or from source?

Current employment stats?

Finance available from HSBC?

We could do with someone on the other end (just finished the course) or CTC to tell us what the flip is going on and where we stand. It's naive to make assumptions on how much we will get paid, or how we will be able to afford to live with the repayments etc without fact. It's hit me lately that none of us actually know the answers (unless someone's just been keeping quiet!?), the last page or so has been pure speculation.

I will do some digging and get back to you all.

RAF_Techie101

Much appreciated kerosine. As much as I'd love to do this, I'm not sure 111 grand's worth of debt is worth it... The 90-odd I orignially thought it was according to here and the CTC website (I think) was jsut about managable in the long run, but 111 is just a horrendous amount to be paying back, even if it is my dream job...

bonalste

To be honest, it's not entirely heresay that's beign stated on here. A quick google for easyjet gave me the following:

UK Contracts - Salary & Benefits - Pilot Careers - Careers in the Air - easyJet Careers

Reading the website explains the salaries. It's not quite as simple as 'you get paid x amount'. Give it a gander, it's quite interesting. Obviously easyJet is just an example, but I'd say it's pretty similar across the board and, considering that easyJet are the primary employer thus far, I'd look to them as the main example to go on.

In addition, I recall reading here soem time ago where a current cadet with one of the partners displayed his bank balance details. The figure that he showed for repayments by the airline came in at over £1000 per month, which suggests several things:

1. There is no tax paid on the £12,000 which goes into the bank account (with easyJet - obviously with BA, getting paid a full FO salary, tax will come out, which is why easyJet is possibly a better short-term investment though I have no idea on the salary increases expected from the respetive organisations, so BA may be more appropriate long-term financially until year 7).
2. The figure is not capped at £12,000. I do not know the details, of course, but I would assume that this is either done for tax purposes, to reduce the payment schedule or to meet the loan repayments including interest.

Either way, £111,000 is a huge amount of money. The real worry with this is if you get placed into the hold pool and need to make repayments yourself for these months. I am personally saving around £6,000 and will be living like a troll in order to make sure that I have enough saved up to cover me for at least a few months, enough for me to acquire another job in the meantime. Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance, afterall, and you don't want to go down the route of being on the hold pool with no plan how to make the £1350 per month repayments!

99jolegg

Why don't CTC have a username here?

When I was at selection in July, current CTCers were talking about people finishing the course 6 months before them with no job at the moment but possibly being taken by EZY in October as they were requiring a job lot of cadets then. Don't know whether this still stands. In my interview I asked if there was a hold pool of cadets building - she was unsure and didn't confirm or deny.

I always thought that the £12,000 less salary a year was given in monthly stages of £1000 tax free for all partner airlines, as this was the arrangement CTC had with them. I could well be wrong; bonalste suggests otherwise.

Employment is slow (obviously) but I got the feeling (from CTCers and assessment team) that it is more a case of when they get a job, rather than if. Obviously, that doesn't hold much water when you have HSBC chasing you for money owed but it provides a ray of light at the end of the tunnel...

Finance from HSBC was suspended (read stopped if you like) from the end of August. The bank themselves said that, and CTC too - CTC provided the warning in an email recently which you'll have. When I spoke to HSBC on the phone I clearly asked "so HSBC are doing nothing for CTC in terms of finance after the end of August?". The lady replied "sorry, no". At that point, she was unaware that somebody in the depth of decision making at HSBC had decided to extend applications for supposedly (according to CTC) one month (September). According to CTC, this is why they are filling courses rapidly (must be filling April or May 09 by now) so that they can get the finance approved, so long as they get the interview before the end of play.

When I rang HSBC for an interview for the loan, and was told, "really sorry, we're fully booked for interviews until the end of August now" (when the loan was supposedly stopping) I rang CTC to find out how I'm supposed to afford the course and was told that they'd look into it and talk to finance and see if the rumour about extension until September is true. Meanwhile, I was to approach other banks for a secured loan. Of course CTC will do (are doing) their best to secure funding for cadets if HSBC remove the unsecured option for a while.

Who knows what will happen, a bit like fortune telling really.

PAJ

Each airline has a different salary structure for cadets. EZ is the most often cited as they have always been the largest recruiter of Wings cadets, and the strucure from them is basically a salary (approx. £26k) with flight pay of £14.73 per sector, and then £1000 per month tax free to cover loan repayments. It's a net of around the £42k mark starting. Bear in mind that the bond repayments do cost more than the £1000 pm given, and it's all dependent on the current interet rate. Other airlines have similar repayment structures with a tax free bond repayment on top of salary and flight pay. Airlines such as the likes of BA do not give you a tax free bond repayment, but instead you go on the Direct Entry salary scale. There is not that much between each of the airline packages, and there are other benefits offered.

bonalste

Hmm, are you sure it's only £1000? I found the post to which I referred:

Account Statement showing Bond Repayments

This shows a monthly payment of £1064, which gives a £90,000 repayment over 7 years. As I say, I'm not sure on the circumstances of this but they were all in lump payments, suggesting hat it came directly from the airline (rather than the person in question paying back extra off his own back).

Thoughts?

Kerosine

I seriously hope this is the case, it's much better than I anticipated! I know you're still in training PAJ so have you had this confirmed by someone?