lo0ney

I recently got through phase 3 of CTC selection, I was wondering exactly how much choice cadets have in where they end up at the end of the course. Ideally I'd go for Jetstar pacific in Vietnam or an easyjet job in Madrid. What are the odds of getting the job you want?

Of course I realise you have to be flexible I don't want to sound like I should be able to pick a job without any actual experience, I'm just curious to know what the possibilities are.....

dragonfly6

choice usually either easyjet or apply to BA with the odd option of a holiday charter cropping up for some cadets around december.

you would generally take whats available unless you felt the need to work for BA

saintexupery

it all depends on the pilot market at the moment. right now most of asia is going strong, so pacific would probably be a feasible option if u wanted to go there

if your choice airline is not recruiting at the moment i understand u can wait, some cadets did that to get into ezy i believe

dragonfly6

its difficult to say youd want to go to jetstar or y or z without seeing the terms and conditions. would probably make these choices closer to the time.

Andy112

What are the job prospects like for CTC graduates in the current climate? I've been thinking of applying for a while now, finished uni last year and am just saving some money at present.

I've been reading this forum for days solid - tons of awesome information in here. But I'm concerned that if I apply to CTC, get and and then qualify, that there seems to be a load of horror stories about pilots being unemployed due to low hours/no appropriate type rating etc. I'd rather not have £70k debt and a very slim chance of actually being able to fly

-Andy

Sagey

DJ do you really understand what the economic conditions are out there. This is not an aviation only recession. Companies are having their market capitalisation slashed. Large household names such as M&S are in all sorts of financial difficulties. The dreaded R word is being whispered all around the City at the moment. The Banks who traditionally provide the greatest levels of graduate salaries are not recruiting at the levels that they were even a year ago. Some are not recruiting at all. The job market hasn't been this bad since September 11th, the difference there was that it was an event that caused an economic blip and the economy recovered fairly rapidly. This is far more cyclical and therefore will hurt more. There are people with considerable debt out there, the reality is a lot greyer than you would imagine, otherwise everyone would easily be walking into jobs where you can service the substantial debt.

akindofmagic

To add to what Sagey has said: I completed the CTC Wings programme in March this year. I'm now waiting for Easyjet, which will hopefully happen in October.

I have had to get a job while I wait. I am a law graduate and I live in Newcastle. I was lucky enough to get a job with a start up company up here. My salary is around £20k (which is higher than trainee solicitors and accountants get up here). If I only make my basic salary (i.e. no commission) in a month, after tax, NI and student loan payments I am left with about £1300. My loan repayments to HSBC are something like £1200 per month.

Now bear in mind that Newcastle is one of the cheapest places to live in the country: there is absolutely no way that I could find a job up here that would allow me any money to live on in my first two or three years.

It is very definitely not as easy as "getting a degree so you have a fallback" or anything like that. Even trainee solicitors for a Magic Circle firm in London would only be making c. £33k in their first two years, and I know from speaking to mates who are currently on training contracts that they're struggling...and that's without an £80k loan to service!

You really do have to go into this with your eyes wide open. If you don't get a job with an airline for whatever reason, you are going to be faced with a huge struggle to service your loan; remember, if you want to live a £20k a year lifestyle with a loan that size, you need to be earning £40k before tax!

magic

Sagey

Trust me the recession word is being bounded around the City. I have 6 years experience working in the City and the feedback that I am getting from people is that it is bad, very bad. You quote negative growth, the FTSE is in and out of a bear market, shares are continuing to fall. Less people are looking to list, means that lawyers etc get less fees. Major financial institutions are going under in the US. Then there are people like Richard Branson talking publicly about how it is the worst period that they have ever know for the aviation industry (do a google search for Reuters article) Recruitment consultants will call, I get literally 20 calls a day but it doesn't mean that they have a job for you. Going to meet them also doesn't mean that they have a job for you, it just is basically them saying yep we like your cv and we will try and match you with a job. They do that to hundreds of other people as well, and at the end of the day they only want to get their commission.

Sagey

32K is a nothing salary if you have to make repayments of £12k. The time the tax man has taken his cut plus National insurance you will be left with an income to live on of about £12-13k a year. It isn't that easy to pay for housing, food and have a social life on that.

Sagey

Sagey

Virgin Atlantic owner predicts big changes in airline industry

Has a quote from RB

S

The African Dude

I disagree with you there David - they have done thus far but we have no guarantees at all. That's not to say it won't happen, but your best asset, as far as getting a job goes, will be a healthy dose of luck. Optimism will serve to keep you and your flight deck colleagues healthy mentally. By being any more certain about any job prospects, you are bluffing yourself. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Be optimistic by all means but the only time you can be sure to "always find work" is if you plan on working for yourself

Bambe

So what should we all do?????
Of course the mess is just starting but CTC is from far a better option than any other random self-sponsored training.

CTC provides about 250 pilots a year to the UK market (not only now!!!!) and I'm absolutely convinced that all of them will find a position.

I met a EZY captain who also work for CTC who told me .... So far 100% employment.
I won't tell anybody to go for a fully self sponsored way but I definitely think that CTC is and will always be a Quality label.

Then, I agree, working on the ground for couple months after the training is a kind of coming down, but it shouldn't be for too long.

Let us know akindofmagic.

The African Dude

It certainly is - and you can infer all you like, but this is a CTC thread so I'll be talking about CTC cadets, even though what I've said applies generally across the board.

Bambe - what can we do, other than play the game? Can't win if we don't There are jobs at the moment and CTC is a good place to be as a student/cadet/trainee/whatever.. Whether every hard-working cadet gets one, though, is something that only a crystal ball will tell you.

AD

one post only!

When it all goes a bit t*ts up I think you will be better placed as a CTC cadet than self sponsored etc.

However it is good that you do look at the risks, generate options and make a informed decision. This is what you are expected to do as a pilot after all!

Things are not going to be peachy over the next few years. Many airlines are laying people off already. This includes airlines who take a lot of CTC cadets. Don't stroll into it thinking I will get a flying job and if not pop down to the high street and be on circa £35K within minutes. Many companies outside aviation are offering temp contracts as they are unsure what will happen. It could be very difficult to finance that loan and live. Be ready to move back in with the parents!
RR are probably doing well as everyone moves to get new engines to reduce fuel burn and save money. Don't let one companies strong sales fool you.

However, that said you will have a much better chance of getting a job as the CTC brand is strong and well thought of by all airlines they deal with. There will always be jobs, they just might not be in the UK when you graduate. You are far better of with CTC than on your own.....

BitMoreRightRudder

I agree. CTC have a large financial interest in you once you have jumped through all the hoops on the course and have your fATPL. It is very worthwhile having them behind you, even more so when jobs are few and far between. But certainly having an idea of what you might do to earn some cash should you find yourself twiddling your highly trained thumbs for a few months as akindofmagic has mentioned is really important at the moment.

At ezy the latest ctc guys who have just come through type ratings and are doing their 6 months "probation" (lets face it, six months with no pay) are likely to be the first guys to find ezy don't offer them a contract once the 6 months is up. Clearly no reflection on their ability, more a reflection that times are hard. This is the feedback being given by the BALPA reps from their meetings with ezy management, and if this does turn out to be the case then it is not great news. I hope they all get permanent employment.

I'm not trying to cause unnecessary concern, but this is the reality of the situation out there right now. Two years from now? Who knows.

EZYramper

"At ezy the latest ctc guys who have just come through type ratings and are doing their 6 months "probation" (lets face it, six months with no pay) are likely to be the first guys to find ezy don't offer them a contract once the 6 months is up. Clearly no reflection on their ability, more a reflection that times are hard. This is the feedback being given by the BALPA reps from their meetings with ezy management, and if this does turn out to be the case then it is not great news. I hope they all get permanent employment."

Do you know exactly how long it will be until these guys (CP41?) find out whether they have secured employment or not, I would be very interested to know.

Thanks

dragonfly6

surely easyjet cant afford to pay 23 odd grand for a type rating so you can do six months (getting £1000 a month and having to be supervised by a third pilot alot of the time) then leave? It probably costs them somwhere around 35K to get a cadet through his line check. They wont get that money back. It would be cheaper for them to send you on paid leave till they needed another pilot. Im in the hold pool waiting for easy myself, maybe im suffering confirmation bias.

jb5000

Dragonfly6,

Point of information for you - the safety pilot is there for 12 sectors, so 3 days in total.

jb

Pablo Martin

Hold on a second, EZY don't discriminate. It doesn't matter whether you scrape through or pass with flying colours (no pun intended), at the moment its just a numbers. So don't go thinking that if you pass everything first time you'll definitely get a job... Trust me I did "everything in my power" along with everyone else but sadly, life's hard and if companies aren't recruiting... they just aren't recruiting.

Furthermore, I'm a cadet currently in the holding pool for EZY and despite having no degree, no experience and no previous jobs I found myself a job to service my loan quite happily. But that is almost certainly by luck more than my skills. So my advice to someone looking at going to CTC as a cadet now is, if you want it then go for it, sooner rather than later. Don't hang around and do a degree that isn't what you want and that'll get you into more debt. I'm living, breathing(most of the time) proof that it can be done. Just read all the contracts carefully before signing so you know where you stand and you'll be fine.

MP

Pablo Martin

You'd be suprised, some of the people I saw on JOC

I'm on a 6 month contract with another airline working as ground-crew which I'm really enjoying, fantastic experience and good pay. So basically that is my alternative. Should I get to the end of that contract and EZY have still not come up with the goods then I guess I look around for another job, perhaps look at Cityjet, but given what were all hearing EZY are short staffed not to mention the rest of industry. It is just physically impossible for them to not recruit, pilots leave/retire/die(god forbid) and to keep the a/c going they need more people. Cadets are cheap and very well trained.

I just wanted to clarify, the EZY holding pool is not for the scrape through cadets who struggled, everyone there deserves to be there as they have survived a very very tough course and achieved a high standard. Not everyone gets into BA, there have been some very surprising assessment results (not including mine as I wasn't particularly surprised!) just goes to show that just being a good pilot doesn't necessarily make you a "BA person".

MP