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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 25th Feb 2017, 23:38
  #4761 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fleet/Gunnedah New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by kdb1992 View Post

My only concern is right now that I do not want to commence a course and potentially be jobless by the end of the 18 month adventure at the expense of circa 120k..
If this is a major barrier to you then I suggest you find another career, this industry is so volatile that it only takes another recession or major worldwide event for recruitment to collapse.
No one can deny that. You can get offered a job straight away after training for a major airline or end up working in the school's call-center selling others the dream as a "Careers Advisor" for many months despite the fact your career hasn't started! Both of them are realistic scenarios.

Though I believe the MPL can be transferred in very exceptional circumstances to another carrier, you have to be attached to an airline from the beginning and stay with them for a decent period of time, whether or not you have to pay for a type rating a few years down the line once your MPL becomes an ATPL is down to what individual airlines are offering at the time.

Originally Posted by kdb1992 View Post

In regards to the MPL, I was made aware by the advisor that you're provided with an airline specific type rating?? :S.. Would that mean I'd be unable to move airlines without having to fork out another 30k for a type rating? Also, I'm confident (not bragging) that I should pass the ATPL but worst case if I do not pass the interview with easy jet after completion, would I still have to pay the full Easyjet MPL fee (109,000).. Or would I be refunded the difference of (15,000). ATPL Whitetail (94,000)..

If you join EasyJet on Route 2 you will be paying the ATPL fee of 94k to start with, after the ATPL exams if you are upgraded you will then be adjusted to 109k, so no need for a refund as MPL Upgrade is not guaranteed at any stage, you pay if/when you're upgraded.
If you were not to pass the interview you would then be given the opportunity to join Route 3 EasyJet ATPL (subject to an offer) which would be 123,800 (30k for Type Rating which can be bonded) unless you wish to prefer just continue as a regular whitetail cadet (or do not meet pass EasyJet ATPL interview).

As you can see, there's a lot of opportunities and a lot of pitfalls on this path. Take the glossy brochures with a pinch of salt, get constructive advice from everyone, get out and do a bit of grassroots flying now (light aircraft/gliding) to show your passion and consider all options and schools, not just the ones with the best marketing skills.

It's Cost vs Risk. You might get employed straight away out of CTC after paying well north of 100k or you might be unemployed for a year doing it modular for 55,000.

Best of Luck.
planesandthings is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2017, 08:47
  #4762 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 24
I mean yes anything can happen as planesandthings said. We're living in a world where nothing is certain anymore.

I doubt though there would be another recession so soon, banks have made sure that won't happen (hence the difficulty in taking loans), and also if you read up a bit about the airline industry, its at its strongest its probably ever been (warren buffet has just invested billions into airline stocks). Airlines are more careful now with over capacity and with handling crises.

Another 9/11? Highly unlikely. Though 2015,2016 saw the shooting down of a malaysian airlines flight over russia, the mysterious dissapearance of MH17, a suicide air crash into the alps and a few other note worthy crashes (flydubai,air egypt etc)...yet here we are, and they barely affected the industry. The truth is the industry is more cautious now and certain events are protected against. Many airlines have consolidated and have become more robust.

It is more likely the airline you might join is to go bankrupt due to misaporopiate handling rather than other external factors...though airlines like EasyJet are known to plan ahead, hence applying for an EU AOC years before they even know the impact of Brexit (which could be years away)
lostinspace89 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2017, 17:02
  #4763 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 30
Is anyone doing the course on the 17th April in New Zealand? Let me know!
twtiger is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2017, 17:41
  #4764 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by TrevorPhillips View Post
Hi

Does anyone here know did Qatar Airways will re open their programme this year or not ?

Any information given about Qatar Airways in CTC would be much appreciated
Omg I want to apply too!!! I contacted CTC aviation they told maybe around April or May just like last year. Do sign up for course updates
okay hars is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2017, 23:50
  #4765 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 9
Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education I am 31 to be precise and currently an engineer in the motor industry but aviation has long been a passion of mine any information would be greatly appreciated many thanks
Scouseflier85 is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 01:37
  #4766 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The MEL page
Posts: 80
I've known of several older Cadets.

I must be honest with you in saying that you probably will find the course tougher at your age, in terms of information retention and the speed at which you'll pick things up. It's just Biology, unfortunately. It is very true that Teenagers brains are like sponges.

But it can be done.

Your best bet is an MPL where you have a little bit more security.

tech log is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 08:03
  #4767 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 24
I always find it worrying when people post on here seemingly intent on spending insane amounts of money, without actually knowing what they are paying for. There is no ATPL route at CTC, or any flight school. You cannot go to a flight school and leave with an ATPL. You will get a CPL with an ME-IR, ATPL theory complete and an MCC/JOC (affectionately called AQC by CTC). That aside, there seems to be some kind of perception here that the course at CTC is a difficult one and that the standards are high. Please don't be fooled by the sales pitch. The standards are just are just as low as anywhere else. You will find people passing and getting jobs who have little to no theory knowledge and very little in the way of flying skills. A lot of people here need to open their eyes to the reality.
TheManFromThatPlace is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 08:38
  #4768 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 271
Originally Posted by Scouseflier85 View Post
Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education I am 31 to be precise and currently an engineer in the motor industry but aviation has long been a passion of mine any information would be greatly appreciated many thanks
Scouse, I started a white tail integrated program at CTC the week before my 36th birthday. Been on the line with easyJet now for over a year, and was successful in the BA direct entry pilot selection at the end of last year, just waiting for a start date.

So, age is definitely not an impediment! In fact out on the line, I'd say it was a significant advantage, skippers appreciate talking to a bloke (or girl) who has a bit of life experience and not someone who's 20 and just fallen out of school and into a training school on the back of Mum & Dad's .

Don't get me wrong, it's bloody hard work, and living with a bunch of 'kids' for 18 months while you complete your training who are 10 plus years younger than you and have a very different outlook on life is not easy. But it's relatively short term, and when you finally get sat in the right hand seat you will appreciate it much more.

I spent 10 years in the motor trade too, albeit in sales (don't hate on me! ) and during a difficult day, I often think to myself "I could still be selling cars!" It definitely helps to put the tougher times (and there will be some) into context with your previous career, which makes them so much easier to deal with.

Hope that helps, good luck!
FoxChaRomeo is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 16:07
  #4769 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 287
There are obviously more people in their early 20s on the course, but plenty of people slightly older too. You certainly won't be on your own. If you are good enough to pass the airline interview then they don't care how old you are.

Like someone has said don't believe the whole sales pitch on "ultra superior standards" and that BS. If you can pass the tests and come out the other end you have just as good a chance as anyone else.
average-punter is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 20:26
  #4770 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 35
Older cadets

Originally Posted by Scouseflier85 View Post
Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education I am 31 to be precise and currently an engineer in the motor industry but aviation has long been a passion of mine any information would be greatly appreciated many thanks
I started training with CTC just before my 31st birthday and was employed by easyJet for four years without even an interview (I left to go to a different carrier with a different lifestyle). Passing the ATPL exams was hard work because there is so much to learn but very achieveable. If you put in the time you should get the results.
flightless_bird is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2017, 17:01
  #4771 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 2
Having attended the CTC Open Day on Saturday my biggest concern was the removal of/modification of (both were mentioned) their Performance Protection. So far i've been unable to get a clear answer, both on the day and after from their career advisors, of exactly what it will look like post 1 July so this is a potential game changer for me. Did anybody else pick up on that and get any clearer answers from anyone at CTC?
GHav1664 is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2017, 20:27
  #4772 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by planesandthings View Post
If you were not to pass the interview you would then be given the opportunity to join Route 3 EasyJet ATPL (subject to an offer) which would be 123,800 (30k for Type Rating which can be bonded) unless you wish to prefer just continue as a regular whitetail cadet (or do not meet pass EasyJet ATPL interview).
Sorry but this is incorrect. If you were not to pass the any assessment for Generation easyJet then you could be offered whitetail in the best case, or in the worst rejected from the school altogether. Each of the three routes lead to the same position, but are offered depending on easyJet's confidence in you to be able to complete the course, with Route 1 (MPL) indicating a high level of confidence, and Route 3 being lower, but still enough.
Millasaurus is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2017, 08:29
  #4773 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by okay hars View Post
Omg I want to apply too!!! I contacted CTC aviation they told maybe around April or May just like last year. Do sign up for course updates
Really? when did you contacted them? cause i've been contacted them from january but their reply just "we don't know yet, as it's Qatar decision not us"
TrevorPhillips is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2017, 10:04
  #4774 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 136
The best scheme being operated at the moment is the Thomas Cook/Iago Platinum Pilot scheme. There is no upfront TR cost, just 400 quid for the assessment days. IAGO and Thomas Cook pay all the costs for TR, base training/line training for the successful cadets.
The scheme is due to re-open during Spring 2017 - http://www.iagoplatinum.com/
PA28161 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2017, 08:36
  #4775 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fleet/Gunnedah New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Millasaurus View Post
Sorry but this is incorrect. If you were not to pass the any assessment for Generation easyJet then you could be offered whitetail in the best case, or in the worst rejected from the school altogether. Each of the three routes lead to the same position, but are offered depending on easyJet's confidence in you to be able to complete the course, with Route 1 (MPL) indicating a high level of confidence, and Route 3 being lower, but still enough.
Sorry, I didn't word it right. If you were not to pass to Route 2 standard but passed to Route 3 then obviously EasyJet ATPL would be offered unless you fail altogether and fall back to Whitetail or nothing.
Sure, all three routes lead to the same job, however I'd seriously think long and hard about spending 123,800 on an airline scheme that is nothing more than a glamorized whitetail where you get a job offer a bit earlier (Totally conditional until after ATPL results) and airline specific training . It's an unjustified extra 20k to get the same job!
Strangely someone on whitetail might now actually end up better off than an EasyJet Route 3 if they get the opportunity to join BA, now that BA has ended FPP and replaced it with whitetail hiring!

People will keep paying though, regardless...
planesandthings is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2017, 13:31
  #4776 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: London
Posts: 8
Whilst that kind of makes sense. You are forgetting the fact that the 120k is inclusive of a type rating. Yes you may pay less to be on a standard whitetail but you will still end up paying for a type rating at the end of it (provided you don't get a job with an airline that pays for a type rating).

You sign a conditional offer of employment, just the same as route 1 & 2, on route 3. It is certainly a safer route that a standalone whitetail route.
Bq54 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2017, 14:46
  #4777 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 12
Hey everyone,

I have been planning on applying to CTC for the white tail route (ATPL) and am looking to have my selection centre in late Aprile/early May. I have also applied to generation easy jet through CTC and have been succesful in getting to stage 2.

Now I have learnt that easyjet split their selection into 2 stages (first day is technical ie numerical and PILAPT i would assume) second day, if successful on first ( would be non-technical ie 1-1 interview and group exercise).

My questions are:

1) Are the technical tests the same as for Virgin's MPL and CTC's whitetail selection process for easyjet?
2) If succesful at the first and second day but not meeting easyjet's criteria (or simply not beating all other candidiates) would you still be eligable for the whitetail route with CTC?
3) What if you are succesful at the first stage (technical) but not second day, would you have to start from scratch and have to go through all stages (technical and non-technical) for the CTC white tail route? If so you'd have to wait 3 more months I would assume?


I had been unsuccesful in the PILAPT during my Virgin MPL selection day in January, had been planning to go through the whitetail process with CTC when I was informed about getting to easyjet's selection day(s) out of the blue (having applied in late 2016)so am trying to get an idea what would be most suited to me. I cannot afford to fail again and am pretty confident (with sufficent preperation) I could pass CTC's selection process in April/May but with easyjet's selection day/process being quite different to Virgin's/CTC's whitetail route I am unsure about how to proceed to one way or another end up on an ATPL course in the near future.


if anyone could help I would REALLY appreciate it.
Jbaldwin95 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2017, 23:44
  #4778 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: EGNT
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by GHav1664 View Post
Having attended the CTC Open Day on Saturday my biggest concern was the removal of/modification of (both were mentioned) their Performance Protection. So far i've been unable to get a clear answer, both on the day and after from their career advisors, of exactly what it will look like post 1 July so this is a potential game changer for me. Did anybody else pick up on that and get any clearer answers from anyone at CTC?

I have a feeling this comment may have been overlooked. Are you sure they're removing their performance protection. That's a HUGE deal!
Maverick97 is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2017, 08:18
  #4779 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: France
Posts: 103
1) Are the technical tests the same as for Virgin's MPL and CTC's whitetail selection process for easyjet?
YES
2) If succesful at the first and second day but not meeting easyjet's criteria (or simply not beating all other candidiates) would you still be eligable for the whitetail route with CTC?
Yes and no, depends on your performance, might be eligeable for the whitetail.
3) What if you are succesful at the first stage (technical) but not second day, would you have to start from scratch and have to go through all stages (technical and non-technical) for the CTC white tail route? If so you'd have to wait 3 more months I would assume?
The selection process for each programs are tailored differently and aren't linked to each other. In some rare cases, you were able to transfer technical test result so you didn't have to re-sit some of the test, very uncanny I was one of the few who ware allowed to do that, from route 4 AQC to ATP AQC, but don't take it for grounded.

I had been unsuccesful in the PILAPT during my Virgin MPL selection day in January, had been planning to go through the whitetail process with CTC when I was informed about getting to easyjet's selection day(s) out of the blue (having applied in late 2016)so am trying to get an idea what would be most suited to me. I cannot afford to fail again and am pretty confident (with sufficent preperation) I could pass CTC's selection process in April/May but with easyjet's selection day/process being quite different to Virgin's/CTC's whitetail route I am unsure about how to proceed to one way or another end up on an ATPL course in the near future.
As a said before, no link between those programs, you can fail EZY and Virgin and still be able to apply for the whitetail, do not hesitate to ask CTC
Airone2977 is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2017, 10:11
  #4780 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Maverick97 View Post
I have a feeling this comment may have been overlooked. Are you sure they're removing their performance protection. That's a HUGE deal!
I am certain that is what was briefed on the Open Day. However, having harassed the CTC Career Advisors the best response I could get was yesterday and said; 'The cost of the training programmes and the Performance Protection will be reviewed from July 1st, so we would not be able to provide any information until after that date'.

Obviously, I'm not in a position to attempt to second guess what they are going to do, but I will be delaying my application until after that date.
GHav1664 is offline  

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