gyni

We're comparing flying to having sex now? Think some of you need to realise the realities of commercial flying. If you want an analogy about sex how about this one?...pay £££££s for training but you're the one that gets treated like a whore...well and truly screwed!

SW1

At least the whore pockets the cash, we just get shagged and dont see a dime back.

Its more like a peep show. We pay all this money just to get a glimpse of that nice thing we all want but we'll never touch it. At this point in time!

On a more relevent note whats the deal with the CTC Flexicrew scheme?

Is this the way things are moving? 6 month contracts here there and everywhere for the rest of our careers.

CTC Aviation Group plc - Home

Zippy Monster

ScottFlyer, you know that is a ridiculous analogy, in more ways than one. What exactly is the point you attempt to make with it? If I'm correct what you're saying is that, despite the lack of jobs and oversupply of out-of-work pilots in the industry, it's a good idea to start training anyway just in case, by chance, you find a job? How can you compare trying to have a baby with spending upwards of £75k on training to be a pilot?!

Perhaps you should have a chat to some of the guys sitting in the hold pool until next spring at the very earliest, and even then with a high degree of uncertainty about their situation. SW1's "peep show" observation absolutely hits the nail on the head.

TheBeak

I'll second that Zippy on both accounts.

If it is I am writing off my costs, there is no way I want that kind of life for my future family. Anyone who does is selfish. I also don't think I or anyone else would be particuarly safe with that level of inconsistency throughout. There is only so much a text book can teach you and only so much a 'check' can find.

It's amazing, the FTOs and the airline management are responsible for all of the mess, and, pilots, cabin crew and engineers - all the specifically, usefully qualified people, suffer. Load factors are generally very good from what I hear from friends more fortunate. The airlines management have over ordered, over paid, mis-judged and under sold and yet they still keep their jobs and pay. The problem for us is too many lemmings with an unhealthy disrespect for money and a selfish attitude in that they are willing to ditch everyone and everything just so that they can 'love their job'. What lies ahead cannot be drawn from the past - guaranteed. Really think about the instability a 6 month contract once a year is going to have on any kind of family life. Try getting a mortgage on that basis. Try having a nice Christmas over the 'less busy period'. OOORRR of course you can go and work in Vietnam or Nigeria for the other 6 months and ditch or affect your family again. Then maybe one day, if you have the resilience and brass ones to stick out you may get something a little firmer, perhaps for the last 15 years of your life. It is insane, people are missing the point of life. Experience is priceless in this industry. Introducing the flexicrew scheme has set a ruinous road for the future of pilots starting out. Sure it may well work for older pilots looking to wind down, it may in fact work very well. But For us at the beginning of careers it spells a life of worry, instability and distraction.

ed_boy

Are these the ATP fools that are currently flying for easyJet then?

I'd get your facts straight before making such sweeping detrimental comments.

GBB

I think EK was trying to say, that RIGHT NOW only an idiot would want to overpay for a privilege of 12 month in their pool with no job at the end.

TheBeak

As I understand it from a VERY relaible source no they aren't.

How do you know my middle name? Do I know you ScottFlyer?

Eddie Hitler

TheBeak,

You might want to check your source as they have proven VERY unreliable in this case.

There are a number of ATP pay-to-fly pilots back flying with easyJet this year. They have been taken on through CTC's Flexicrew after Sigma failed to come to an agreement with easyjet.

EK4457

Thanks GBB, you are correct.

ed_boy,

No. They are the ones that, just a few weeks ago, paid 8 grand for an MCC which they don't need in order to enter a hold pool as the lowest priority for an absoulte minimum of 2 years.

This was what they were told at selection. And they still did it. They are fools. IMO.

My facts are very straight and from good source thankyou.

Having a little butchers at your posts, I think you are getting a little confused with the CTC ATP scheme (which I was refering to) and the buy-a-job ATP outfit who you seem so fond of. You are miles off track.

If you paid to fly passenger flights and ended up with a temporary job then I hope it worked out for you. I've heard the real pilots won't even talk to you?

You are clearly a cheque book pilot with a chip on your shoulder.

Chill.

SW1

Are we talking about simulator experience here- because yes they did take on 12, already type rated and line trained by Easyjet, cadets.

Not sure about the CTC guys let go last year.


Just realised EK beat me too it...

Eddie Hitler

SW1,

Regarding the CTC pilots let go by easyJet at the end of last summer, 9 of them have returned for another 6 months this summer under CTC's Flexicrew T&C's.

pilotguy08

Are you allowed to get a job while you're in the holding pool?

Zippy Monster

No, in fact around 3 years ago I was gearing myself up for the CTC scheme, having seen all the lovely PR and heard about the big shortage of pilots, it seemed like a dream ticket to a job. The difference now is I've spent over a year flying the Airbus and, despite me already having had a reasonable knowledge of the industry before I ever started out, being on the right side of the flight deck door has taught me a lot more about the whole situation than I could have hoped to know, and has helped to reinforce the important point that much of what eminates from the FTO PR departments is garbage. Particularly when it comes to saying that X airline will need Y pilots in year Z. Some airlines don't even know what their requirements will be a couple of months ahead, never mind two or three years.

The problem is that in many cases that desire is attempted to be pursued by taking out a five-figure secured loan against someone's property in the middle of the worst recession for years and possibly decades. I can't agree that this shows particularly sound judgement. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Just to clear up a few apparent misconceptions about this ATP business. CTC Wings ATP, the bit of the course where you join at the AQC (intermediate) stage and then enter the hold pool, reopened this year. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has been taken from that pool this year - there might have been one or two still hanging on from a while ago who got forwarded to easyJet under FlexiCrew terms in early 2009, I don't know, but if there were then it's very few - the intake was predominantly cadets. It is absolutely true that some of the Airline Training Partnership ATP (completely different, nothing to do with CTC) 'cadets', who made the required standard, were invited back to work on summer contracts again this year, having signed up to the FlexiCrew scheme. But it would appear that the reference to "ATP fools" from a poster above refers to the former group, i.e. those choosing to apply to the CTC Wings ATP scheme to join a holding pool lower in priority than a big load of cadets ahead of them.

One further possible misconception... Wings and FlexiCrew are two separate entities. There are the guys who are doing their 6 months on £1k/month as the final part of the Wings Cadets course, and then there are last year's cadets/ex-ATP(non-CTC) etc. who are working on FlexiCrew terms.

Yes.

pilotguy08

Do many people get jobs then while they're in the holding pool? (And i'm talking about other jobs which are not CTC related and not as a pilot)

Zippy Monster

Yes it's quite normal to do so - in fact, unless you fancy the prospect of sitting round on your backside doing nothing for months waiting for your type rating date after AQC, then it's a good idea to get something lined up nearer the time. The vast majority, certainly in more recent times when airline demand has dictated a big wait between end of AQC and start of type rating, have taken on non-aviation jobs to keep the pocket money rolling in.

bigjarv

Well this sounds like mostly sense to me! Been down the pub and had a few but really there seems to be sense in this. Now is not the time to be racking up huge debts. Been down the pub and looking at pprune?!?!?!?! What am I doing??? Get a life Jarv!!! Night... Hic!

ctcpilot2b

Hi people, i am new to this thread although i have been monitoring it for a long time now. I went to the last ctc open day and would like to summarise my thoughts.CTC seem like a very professional organisation, i doubt they would want to give themselves a bad reputation for lying to their future cadets.I think it is great news that BA are going to need 400 pilots soon, and were in the best position for when that happens.The fact that by the time we complete our training there will be a huge pilot shortage is even better, airlines will be screaming out for low houred pilots like us.If anything there will not be enough, and ctc cadets will be at the top of the pile. have took out a huge loan to cover my training, but i think this is ok as ctc have assured me that things should be much better by the time i finish my training.I just think the likes of the 'BEAK' are jealous that they have to sit around for another 18 months only to find that us new pilots will take the jobs at the other end,having not had to wait at all.The beak, u spend so much time talking about how it will affect family life, all the loans, temp contracts and uncertainty, i am suprised your family even get a look in now the amount of time u must be glued to this site waiting to shoot people down.while others (DJ fingers, WWW ect) offer sound advice, u seem like a bitter young man!

Better be off, have a flight, say hi to the tesco staff for me beak . .

GBB

ctcoilot2be,

You better keep on monitoring ONLY

hollingworthp

Troll

TheBeak

A troll of the highest order, look at the really 'cool' screen name I might change mine to CTC4eva or RYR4eva. Go and enjoy your flight ctcpilot2b. Does the 2b refer to the streaming you are in? 1 being best and 2 being worst, 'a' being slightly better and 'b' being useless but rich so we will keep taking the money? Or is it text talk?

As for Tescos, they are turning over a billion a day and netting several billion a year in profit. What BA? A £400 million loss. Over a million a day lost. Pride comes before a fall and this is the instance where that applies. You aren't a pilot and you aren't at CTC but you very funnily have created a textbook example of one, and, the market the likes of CTC aspire to. If you did but realise it you have made CTC look silly and if you have done that that was a bad idea. If you don't go there then what on Earth for? Attention seeking? Little mentalist.

If CTC did make those claims, well, jolly good. I look forward to it happening. As I have said, I use this thread as a measuring stick of the market amongst other things and that sounds like great news - I might have to start up a new thread entitled - 'CTC say there is a pilot shortage looming and that BA will need 400 pilots in a year and a half, Yessss.'