The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
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We'll be pilot for the spring and summer time, then we'll have another job for the rest of the year awaiting for the next season.. So that we'll never get bored.
Well that's my point of view.
Well that's my point of view.
What an utterly ridiculous thing to say; I despair.
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Bambe,
Are you serious or are you so sh*t scared about this new deal that you're clinging to any kind of positive that you can find?
This deal is nothing but bad news. As has been said before, it is another step in bringing down the Ts & Cs of the industry, exploiting the large number of youg people who want to get into this career. At the rate it's going, Bambe, you may well HAVE to get a 2nd job to cover your loan, bills and, if you ever manage to get one, mortgage as the salary of a pilot will not be enough to cover these things.
People slate WWW for his views, but when will you guys WAKE UP and realise that CTC is no longer what it used to be. The airlines and CTC are taking advantage of the situation to cut costs and screw you guys over. There is NOTHING good about this deal whatsoever. Once the recesion is over, the FlexiCrew scheme will not go away. Why should airlines pay more for a comododity of which there are plenty of and plenty of who seem to be happy to be paid fu*k all for and some who even willing to pay the airline to do the job.
As for those of you like PAJ who reckon getting those 400 hours on a jet will suddenly open all doors to other airlines, time to think again. 400 hours on type is sod all. There are guys coming out of XL, Silverjet, Maxijet, Sterling etc etc etc who have 1'000s of hours. You think you're going to be in a position to compete with them?
However, it's not actually these 1'000s of hours guys you will have to worry about, it's the next batch of Pay to Fly, FlexiCrew or whatever scheme comes up next cadets that will be filling the slots you're hoping you would fall into. 400 hours on type? Now time for a job at XXX Airways? Sorry mate, XXX Airways is only taking FlexiCrews, keep looking old boy!
If this type of scheme is allowed to prosper, it will be the very cadets who are 'benefiting' from that will be the ones suffering.
Are you serious or are you so sh*t scared about this new deal that you're clinging to any kind of positive that you can find?
This deal is nothing but bad news. As has been said before, it is another step in bringing down the Ts & Cs of the industry, exploiting the large number of youg people who want to get into this career. At the rate it's going, Bambe, you may well HAVE to get a 2nd job to cover your loan, bills and, if you ever manage to get one, mortgage as the salary of a pilot will not be enough to cover these things.
People slate WWW for his views, but when will you guys WAKE UP and realise that CTC is no longer what it used to be. The airlines and CTC are taking advantage of the situation to cut costs and screw you guys over. There is NOTHING good about this deal whatsoever. Once the recesion is over, the FlexiCrew scheme will not go away. Why should airlines pay more for a comododity of which there are plenty of and plenty of who seem to be happy to be paid fu*k all for and some who even willing to pay the airline to do the job.
As for those of you like PAJ who reckon getting those 400 hours on a jet will suddenly open all doors to other airlines, time to think again. 400 hours on type is sod all. There are guys coming out of XL, Silverjet, Maxijet, Sterling etc etc etc who have 1'000s of hours. You think you're going to be in a position to compete with them?
However, it's not actually these 1'000s of hours guys you will have to worry about, it's the next batch of Pay to Fly, FlexiCrew or whatever scheme comes up next cadets that will be filling the slots you're hoping you would fall into. 400 hours on type? Now time for a job at XXX Airways? Sorry mate, XXX Airways is only taking FlexiCrews, keep looking old boy!
If this type of scheme is allowed to prosper, it will be the very cadets who are 'benefiting' from that will be the ones suffering.
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I've seen some bone posts on this forum in my time, but:
has to be some sort of record breaker for stupidity. Unless you're fortunate enough to be able to pop out of the end of the Wings training system debt free then I would suggest that Flexicrew is not exactly compatible with the bond repayment schedule. Flexi-HSBC, they ain't!
Bambe is right in one respect though. You'll certainly never get bored. You won't have time. You'll be working every hour in the day to pay back the loan against your name in some temp job. After all what decent employer, paying reasonable whack for well qualified people, is going to hand out a permanent contract to someone who is going to walk out on them every summer season to go and fly?
We'll be pilot for the spring and summer time, then we'll have another job for the rest of the year awaiting for the next season.. So that we'll never get bored.
Bambe is right in one respect though. You'll certainly never get bored. You won't have time. You'll be working every hour in the day to pay back the loan against your name in some temp job. After all what decent employer, paying reasonable whack for well qualified people, is going to hand out a permanent contract to someone who is going to walk out on them every summer season to go and fly?
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If I may add to the howls of derision aimed in Bambe's direction...
With an attitude like that, sir, you should question why you are embarking upon a course which will be a weight around your financial neck for the best part of a decade and whether you have the commitment to see it through.
When asked "why do you want to be a pilot", what was your response?
With an attitude like that, sir, you should question why you are embarking upon a course which will be a weight around your financial neck for the best part of a decade and whether you have the commitment to see it through.
When asked "why do you want to be a pilot", what was your response?
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Well I made quite a big mistake. I thought it was a temporary position still paid whilst grounded... Which is obviously not the case.
I thought we would have few months off with a basic salary and the opportunity to work somewhere else.
Knowing everything, this new scheme definitly sucks. My apologise.
Do you guys think all the CTC partners are going to hire pilot through this scheme or only EZY?
I thought we would have few months off with a basic salary and the opportunity to work somewhere else.
Knowing everything, this new scheme definitly sucks. My apologise.
Do you guys think all the CTC partners are going to hire pilot through this scheme or only EZY?
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If the scheme involved getting a decent basic salary to not turn up at all then I think Concorde training captains, Red Arrows pilots and Space Shuttle Commanders would have thrown in the towel and joined 'FlexiCrew'!
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This deal is nothing but bad news.
Do you guys think all the CTC partners are going to hire pilot through this scheme or only EZY?
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While there are people in the system saying "flying is flying" and "at least it will get us 400/500 hours on type" the contracts will never be amazing. It doesn't make commercial sense for a company that is struggling now times are getting tough to pay anything other than the total minimum.
On graduation our standards are set fairly low already. £1000 a month for 6 months. Originally palatable because you KNEW there was a job at the end of it!!!
Now if you get offered a contract of say £2000 a month people will jump at it. After sitting in the hold pool for a year it will seem very attractive. The fact you have to rent abroad for 6 months and travel to and from the UK at your own expense doesn't matter as at least you are flying and getting hours!!
Maybe I am wrong and the package's will be outstanding, all expenses stuff but I am not going to hold my breath! Can't help but feel that this flexi scheme will not be wonderful but we shall have to wait and see!!!
What worries me is that the airlines will love it and Bambe I think all partner airlines (with one or two exceptions) will use the scheme. Why not? It provides cheap, flexible labour!! Perfect! They save money, CTC make money. Everyone is a winner!! Including the cadet who gets a few hundred hours
.
I guess CTC are only responding to the times but I think that once you start down on that slippery slope........! Who do you blame though? The airlines? CTC? The credit crunch? Global warming? The French?
I think in some shape or form this scheme will live on forever.
On graduation our standards are set fairly low already. £1000 a month for 6 months. Originally palatable because you KNEW there was a job at the end of it!!!
Now if you get offered a contract of say £2000 a month people will jump at it. After sitting in the hold pool for a year it will seem very attractive. The fact you have to rent abroad for 6 months and travel to and from the UK at your own expense doesn't matter as at least you are flying and getting hours!!
Maybe I am wrong and the package's will be outstanding, all expenses stuff but I am not going to hold my breath! Can't help but feel that this flexi scheme will not be wonderful but we shall have to wait and see!!!
What worries me is that the airlines will love it and Bambe I think all partner airlines (with one or two exceptions) will use the scheme. Why not? It provides cheap, flexible labour!! Perfect! They save money, CTC make money. Everyone is a winner!! Including the cadet who gets a few hundred hours
.I guess CTC are only responding to the times but I think that once you start down on that slippery slope........! Who do you blame though? The airlines? CTC? The credit crunch? Global warming? The French?
I think in some shape or form this scheme will live on forever.
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Everyone is a winner!!
....XL/Silverjet Captains with families and a Mortgage....NO
....Guys with 700hrs and 6 months experience ready to start paying off £1200 a month...NO
I can see why CTC would do this. It gets bums into right hand seats and helps clear there back log.
But not many airlines are ever going to take people on a permanent contract, if their rivals are getting cheap summer labour.
If you've got a mortgage or 60k loan, how will you ever pay it off? 4 months one summer, then the winter stacking shelves, then 6 months of the next summer in the far east or something, then a winter delivering post. There will just be no stable income, you will be moving all over and you will never get a permanent contract because no one will be offering you one. And if you turn down yet another temporary contract, no problem to the airline, because theres hundreds of cadets behind you that will take the contract
Rubbish
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Flexicrew?
Don't worry guys. There is not student loans anymore, so, we cannot get even that.
I am in my reapplication. I failed at stage 3 because my English level, so I left the job, the family and my country (Spain) and I came to work to UK just to improve it until the reapplication time... now, when the time has passed and I able to re-apply, all become a mass.
Flexicrew? I would like to have the chance to be worried about that.
I would feel so fortunate if I have that chance and I would not complain about FLY AN AIRLINER in summer and look for a job from september until next summer for the next two or three years to get flying hours.
What are you thinking guys? times are bad and CTC is moving with it. If you don't like it, then you can try to get your licenses by the "traditional" way and after try to apply for a job... and you will be very lucky if you fly a C152 once a month and be payed for that... and in that moment you will feel how good is the "flexicrew" scheme.
I'm afraid I will have not the chance to be worried about the "Flexicrew" thing after all, so, good luck to all of you who has that chance and please, look out at the real world before complain your "terrible" situation.
Good flights.
Don't worry guys. There is not student loans anymore, so, we cannot get even that.
I am in my reapplication. I failed at stage 3 because my English level, so I left the job, the family and my country (Spain) and I came to work to UK just to improve it until the reapplication time... now, when the time has passed and I able to re-apply, all become a mass.
Flexicrew? I would like to have the chance to be worried about that.
I would feel so fortunate if I have that chance and I would not complain about FLY AN AIRLINER in summer and look for a job from september until next summer for the next two or three years to get flying hours.
What are you thinking guys? times are bad and CTC is moving with it. If you don't like it, then you can try to get your licenses by the "traditional" way and after try to apply for a job... and you will be very lucky if you fly a C152 once a month and be payed for that... and in that moment you will feel how good is the "flexicrew" scheme.
I'm afraid I will have not the chance to be worried about the "Flexicrew" thing after all, so, good luck to all of you who has that chance and please, look out at the real world before complain your "terrible" situation.
Good flights.
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Dr Fox, I was being sarcastic with "everyone is a winner". A little "hmmm" face doesn't really help re-enforce the point I guess!!!! The real winners are always just going to be the airlines and CTC. To be honest I don't really think new cadets will really be winners out of this either. I think we both agree that some might (via flexi) find themselves on a very protracted and difficult route to a permanent RHS job incurring a lot of cost and along the way and potentially helping to destroy T&C's for the rest of us!!
I totally agree with you about the problems this creates for unemployed experienced guys. Someone like Melnaboo comes along, pretty much works for free and there you go! We are all screwed!
I guess CTC have dreamed this up as they need to get cadets out flying so that they
A) stay in business as I bet they need cash flow like everyone else.
B) keep placing people so that they can keep recruiting.
While perhaps genuinely trying to do anything to get people up flying I feel that this scheme is a bit like giving a tramp £10 for some hot food on a cold winters day. Done with good intentions you come back later to find him smashed in a ditch surrounded by empty bottles of meths!!!!
While this scheme exists are airlines less likely to take on a permanent full-time cadet?? I reckon so.
I totally agree with you about the problems this creates for unemployed experienced guys. Someone like Melnaboo comes along, pretty much works for free and there you go! We are all screwed!
I guess CTC have dreamed this up as they need to get cadets out flying so that they
A) stay in business as I bet they need cash flow like everyone else.
B) keep placing people so that they can keep recruiting.
While perhaps genuinely trying to do anything to get people up flying I feel that this scheme is a bit like giving a tramp £10 for some hot food on a cold winters day. Done with good intentions you come back later to find him smashed in a ditch surrounded by empty bottles of meths!!!!
While this scheme exists are airlines less likely to take on a permanent full-time cadet?? I reckon so.
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one post only, sorry mate, didnt pick up ur sarcasm! your absolutely right. people saying they would give anything to fly for summer and do something else for winter is exactly what CTC and airlines are exploiting. And this is what is causing the problem for experienced unemployed guys, and ultimately these new cadets will become experienced unemployed guys.
Melnaboo, I appreciate your eagerness to fly, and I agree with you, I was there myself and so were many others, but believe me doing 6 months of the job you dream of, earning a good income, seeing new places, working nice hours and then to have it all taken away and working in a bar or as a leaflet distributor, double the hours and half the money and little motivation is something that i believe you can't keep up for long. Esprecially as there will be no guarantee of work the next summer.
One final point, in defence of CTC, they have been in the industry alot longer than most of us, they have a wealth of experience and this flexicrew thing may work out better than expected! They may have seen something that we havn't! I have my doubts tho!
Melnaboo, I appreciate your eagerness to fly, and I agree with you, I was there myself and so were many others, but believe me doing 6 months of the job you dream of, earning a good income, seeing new places, working nice hours and then to have it all taken away and working in a bar or as a leaflet distributor, double the hours and half the money and little motivation is something that i believe you can't keep up for long. Esprecially as there will be no guarantee of work the next summer.
One final point, in defence of CTC, they have been in the industry alot longer than most of us, they have a wealth of experience and this flexicrew thing may work out better than expected! They may have seen something that we havn't! I have my doubts tho!
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Re bjkeates
Bjkeates it is quite apparent that you are only on this forum to slate people for their views if they are the oppisite of yours and paint yourself to be more intelligent than the next. Yes you may have more experience than most but what gives you the right to be rude when no one has been to you? I am quite capable of writing in 'Standard English' as you put it, but the people that replied to me in my inbox seemed to easily understand what i was getting at.This forum isint famous for its perfect spelling and grammer, and as the message was not meant for you anyway - why dont you keep your nose out? So easy for people to be smart when they have a computer screen to hide behind dont you think? Other than that your views on flexicrew are spot on.
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Oh dear oh dear... touched a nerve did we?
When you've got a nearly six-figure debt to service and no way of doing it - as was my position until some unexpected news the other week - you'll understand why I made the comments I did towards Bambe.
You'll also find that the vast majority of users on this forum do not like "txt spk", and the moderators take a slightly dim view of it too.
I have no desire to become embroiled in a personal spat in a public forum. You'll find pretty much all of my posts on this forum have been intended to help people, I have better things to do with my time than sit around on PPrune all day and "slate people". Please direct any further correspondence via PM if you feel it necessary. Otherwise, happy flying and enjoy New Zealand.
When you've got a nearly six-figure debt to service and no way of doing it - as was my position until some unexpected news the other week - you'll understand why I made the comments I did towards Bambe.
You'll also find that the vast majority of users on this forum do not like "txt spk", and the moderators take a slightly dim view of it too.
I have no desire to become embroiled in a personal spat in a public forum. You'll find pretty much all of my posts on this forum have been intended to help people, I have better things to do with my time than sit around on PPrune all day and "slate people". Please direct any further correspondence via PM if you feel it necessary. Otherwise, happy flying and enjoy New Zealand.
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A little unnecessary there Wirefly! As someone who has not even started the course yourself, any advice offered to you by someone with more experience is valuable. Fair enough, how you write is up to you (although if we are going down that route it's 'grammAr' !!! - sorry, couldn't resist) but claiming that Mr Keates is only here to slate people is highly unfounded. If you were to take the time to go back through this thread, you will find a number of very useful posts indeed from him.
Edit: bjk, got in there to defend yourself before I could step in!
Edit: bjk, got in there to defend yourself before I could step in!
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.. EZY which recently didn't keep some 15 CTC cadets, is at the moment rating some 15 new ones... Let's bet they won't be kept on.. It's sad but what can we say????? Would any of you refuse starting your type rating thinking I'm used as a f
g free pilot? I don't think so.
g free pilot? I don't think so.
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I really hope they are but our internal news letter has just stated that we (EZY) will not be taking on any permanent crew for summer 09. Hope the original 15 get back in and not via Flexi!
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One Post Only - see my post over in the Easyjet Holding Pool thread on the T&E forum.
Of those released this winter, two have found employment elsewhere; BALPA have told us that easyJet have said the remaining 13 will indeed be taken on via CTC FlexiCrew. They also confirmed what the company said about no permanent recruitment for 2009.
Of those released this winter, two have found employment elsewhere; BALPA have told us that easyJet have said the remaining 13 will indeed be taken on via CTC FlexiCrew. They also confirmed what the company said about no permanent recruitment for 2009.
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I'm afraid I will have not the chance to be worried about the "Flexicrew" thing after all, so, good luck to all of you who has that chance and please, look out at the real world before complain your "terrible" situation
The harsh reality is that people have sold their souls/body parts/futures to HSBC and need some way to pay that back. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of people, the only way that they will be able to repay this debt is through a permanent airline job. Unless Tesco has started paying 40K a year.....