Ryanair

[Ellsam]

That is the funniest thing scenic nice post.

[Mungo Man]

been offered a brookfield contract.

What is the brookfield contract?

Also, just looked at PPJN and it says no company pension input. So you have to provide ALL pension money yourself?

[potkettleblack]

Mungo if your thinking of joining FR then you should assume that they will pay you next to nothing in your first year. A bit more in your 2nd and 3rd and average money thereafter. What other airlines provide as a matter of course (eg: pensions, uniforms, parking, medicals, licence renewal fees etc etc) FR DO NOT provide. They figure that you are a highly paid professional and should you wish any of those perks then your "ample" salary can be used to fund these individually. Unfortunately many have found out the hard way that this is not the case and the salary is meagre.

[Mungo Man]

Thanks for the reply but no thanks - earlier this year I went from single pistons to jets on a decent salary with a small training bond. Just curious about this Ryanair / Brookfield thing and what it means for our Jinkster.

[Cpt. Relax]

What is the use of paying 100k € for an integrated course anyway.

For this amount of money you can get FAA/JAA licenses with a minimum off 1000TT (and a few hunderd ME).

That would be a good experience to apply for jobs...

[Bambe]

I wonder about something. Some OAT graduated fly for ryanair... Do they have to pay for the Type Rating? Are they treated the same way than cadets from other FTO?

I mean, you can find some training in Europe for less than half OAT's integrated course and enter for sure FR (they'll need hundreds of pilots in the next few years) so I can't believe that someone who spend over 60 000 pounds could accept flying for such an airline....

But I guess I know the answer, just want to make sure..

Thanks

[potkettleblack]

FR are desperate for pilots which is why they are running road shows throughout Europe and in particular have been targeting the big flying schools. Word on the street is that very few OAT students were interested in FR. I am sure if you go into the OAT forums then you will be able to ask the guys direct what was on offer.

[natterjack747]

Do you have to organise your own loan of more than 25k or will Ryanair or the FTO organise one for you??

[Fellow Aviator]

From what I can tell it's 45 Euro per hour, no salary... if so then this is good, is it not?

Well, if you get to fly 80h per month it equals 3600E gross. Remember that you have to take care of your social security fees and pension contributions from this sum. The ammount of the 'extras' will be paid as to laws of the country where you reside. Don't forget to deduct your income tax. Other things to consider: holiday pay(no money from brookfields on holidays), travel to sim check + accomodation, ID fees, car park, food on board etc...

Please do remember that there are no guaranteed flight hours. In other words your monthly pay can vary from zero to 3600E (max possible yearly average, which is about 900/11=80h/month, 1 month for holiday).

I woudn't call this good, infact it's terrible.

In the calculation: pension and social sec accroding to imaginary standards.

Please note that social security fees and taxes vary considerably from country to country. But, on the other hand gross pay will be the same!

MAX Flight hours per year

Annual flight hours 900, 11 working months = 81.8 h/month
Gross pay per annum 81.8*11*45 = 40491
Gross monthly pay after holiday reserve 40491/12=3374

Pension 20 %, 3374*20%=675
Social Sec. 5 %, 3374*5%=69
Income tax 20 %,3374*20%=675
Total deductions=1518
Net pay=1856


60 Flight hours per month

Annual flight hours 660 (60*11)
Gross pay per annum , 60*11*45=29700
Gross monthly pay after holiday reserve 29700/12=2475

Pension 20 %, 2475*20%=495
Social Sec. 5 %, 2475*5%=124
Income tax 15 %,2475*15%=371
Total deductions=990
Net pay=1485


40 Flight hours per month

Annual flight hours 440 (40*11)
Gross pay per annum 40*11*45=19800
Gross monthly pay after holiday reserve 19800/12 = 1650

Pension 20 %, 1650*20%=330
Social Sec. 5 % , 1650*5%=83
Income tax 10 %, 1650*10%=165
Total deductions=578
Net pay 1073


anybody, raise your hand if you think the pay is good

[Superpilot]

anybody, raise your hand if you think the pay is good

It's the best in Europe. Alledgedly

[Fellow Aviator]

you forgot to deduct the 4 euro per hour

So it seems to get even better

[B737700]

Phone Nr of RYR in EMA

Try this number my friend : 00-44-1332-815.970

Just for info, take care about these sharks or foxes, name them what you like ! For sure, do not believe that the net salary (I mean the gross salary minus all your expenses) is what they claim to be ! .... and forget about the choice of your base; they will base you where they need you, and, this can be completely opposite to the base they promised you, with no direct connection with your so called home base ... so good luck to join !

[jayc004]

Why you cant leave after 500 hours!

FlyerGuy
"I just have one final question... Once you've paid for the type rating/accom/uniform/pass/etc, are you bonded in any way? What's to stop someone getting 500 hrs then leaving?"
Just to let you know what is happening at the moment. No matter what they tell you in the interview or when you put your name on that contract, as it stands, NO ONE is getting Ryanair contracts. Everyone is being told they MUST sign contracts with Brookfields based out of Dublin. There is no option.
As far as money goes. Paid in Euro at 40.5 per block hour. Not paid for duty time, only time the plane is moving.
You are bonded for 2 years to Brookfields at a cost of 150 Euro per sector flown under line training. Which works out at about 70 sectors on average. Do the maths. That is what stops you leaving after 500 hours.
Forgot to mention that you are classed as self employed and are resposable for all your own tax and accounts, plus you only get paid into a european bank account.
Apparently however it is possible to stay on the training contract once you have finished line training, however this means that you are only earning £850 per month NO SECTOR PAY!! and you can be sent anywhere in Europe at your own costs.

[CamelhAir]

I'm not yet at the point where pension fund should bother me too much (deep down I know it really should though!)

So herein lies the problem! You are now prepared to undercut those (i.e. yourself in a short while) for whom the pension is of great interest. But what will happen when you do decide that planning for the future is a good idea? Will ryr help you? So you move somewhere else. But sorry, virtually every other company is cutting back on pension benefits. Why? Sorry lads, we have to compete with ryr. Vicious circle with no escape and your attitude only perpetuates it.
For your own sake, look elsewhere.
And a word of warning for those relying on command. If you join now with 200hrs, you will be flying about 700hrs per year. So command time will be at least 4 years. However, in 4 years the deliveries will be slowing, so command time will be lengthening significantly.
Signing on to ryr now means signing on to a long long time as an impoverished FO.

[Fellow Aviator]

Many European countries require mandatory pension payments from self-employed, which one under Brookfields contract will be. Up here in Scandinavia mandatory pesion contribution is around 20% from gross pay. I don't know UK law though, but I suspect there is some mandatory payment, like it or not they need to be paid, thus deducting your net pay. If I understood correctly from a previous post, Brookfields will pay only into a continental European account (pls correct if wrong). If this is the case one must also know regulations of that particular country to be able to comply with local rules. In a worst case scenario one could get in trouble with authorities by accidently breaching the law. This whole Brookfields thing is such a mess it would take a professional to sort it out. Do be beware of this.

The 45e/h (minus the 4e/h for recurrent training) might seem good a first glance, but after the math is done it should be a definite pass. But hey, this is only my opinion...

[EGAC_Ramper]

Jayc004,

Granted most people are going onto Brookfields but some do get Ryanair contracts.


Regards

[jasperyellow]

Is there any reason for one person to be offered a Brookfields contract and someone else to be offered a Ryanair one? Also Im wondering how many more FO's are required in Dublin?

[Superpilot]

The reason for basing them at DUB must be to do with money as well

[potkettleblack]

I am no lawyer but FR "bonding" you via Brookfields in such a manner after you have paid for the privilege of training with them plus had further deductions from your pay for recurrent training just won't hold water. It is an onerous contract. If you must end up at FR don't let the threat of them suing you put you off from getting out with your 500 hours and getting a job with an airline that respects its employees. I hardly think they would want all these T&C's thrashed out in court. They are already getting regularly beaten up in the papers here in Ireland due mainly to the ongoing court case with the Dublin pilots. The Irish Times I am sure would love to publish the sorry tales of cadet pilots who are on the bones of their ar*es trying to get by whilst the company returns record profits.

[Hobbit]

The beauty of leaving Ryanair early is that they not only sue you for your outstanding bond, they also sue for the replacement pilot to cover the 'shortfall in your contract'. As you will be aware the shortest pilot contracts are 6 months. So any clever clogs who suggests you just up and leave after 500 hours needs to take account of what extra costs you may be up for!
Our IALPA rep has called Ryanair a 'parallel world.' What is normal practice elsewhere isn't necessarily that way here. Of course vice versa holds true as well, normal at Ryanair may make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up! Invest wisely and become a lawyer, earn lots of money and fly as a hobby.
That is free advise, you would be wise to take it.