Ryanair

[AlexL]

before everyone gets too carried away with the whole "We hate Ryanair" deal, why don't you just reflect on the fact that they will carry more passengers than BA next year, they carried only a couple of percent less than BA this year, they have probably the most modern fleet of any airline, they are the most profitable of all airlines, they are currently listed with a market cap of 6 billion dollars which is more than BA and would make them a firm FTSE 100 company if they were listed one the LSE and not dublin, and are recruiting more low hours pilots than anyone else in the immediate future.
You may love them, you may hate them but I think we can safely assume that they are here to stay, and have changed the industry for good. We can either accept the new order or step aside and let others join the game. Just ask the good people of Rover, Marconi, Delphi corp and many many other huge companies what happens when you don't move with the times.

From a personal point of view if I were to have 20 job offers on my desk, then this is an argument worth having, however If I only had Ryanair on my desk, then this whole point is moot isn't it.
Thinking that the world will change if only everyone stopped paying for type ratings is abit like saying "if we all stopped paying our council tax, then perhaps it wouldn't go up by 20% a year". Its a perfectly accuracte point, but it ain't going to happen people.

[757manipulator]

before everyone gets too carried away with the whole "We hate Ryanair" deal, why don't you just reflect on the fact that they will carry more passengers than BA next year, they carried only a couple of percent less than BA this year, they have probably the most modern fleet of any airline, they are the most profitable of all airlines, they are currently listed with a market cap of 6 billion dollars which is more than BA and would make them a firm FTSE 100 company if they were listed one the LSE and not dublin, and are recruiting more low hours pilots than anyone else in the immediate future.

But thats not the point of this thread, personally my biggest concern with Ryanair is their attitude towards their staff..and the exploitative practises that they employ. As a customer they are generally pretty good, although I still fly BA if I go anywhere as I live near LGW/LHR and they are just as cost effective

[glennox]

The ultimate irony!!!!!!!!

Yes paid for my CPL(IR) in a foreign land, got my FI rating paid for by the school I trained at (in return for 12 months instructing)..I was then offered a F/O position on a turbo-prop, did that for 18 months, then got a job on a Lear 60 (again bonded for 12 months), joined a charter airline on the A320..upgraded to the 757/767 2 years ago. In that time Ive also worked a second and even a third job to pay the bills .Therefore I am utterly uimpressed when foolish individuals think that a mountain of debt, 200hrs, and an attitude of "I'll do the job for next to nothing, and sod anyone elses' T & C's

"

757manipulator, if you don't want to apologise fine and congrats on your flying success, i do sincerely mean that, but you paid for your initial training and lived on no salary for about 15months or so!!!! isn't it ironic for you to have a go at people willing to pay for there own type rating with FR or anyone else for that matter.

Jonty you posted the following a couple of days ago

As for low hour guys in the RHS of a jet, they are bloody dangerous! I know I have been there and got the T-shirt. They are too far behind the aircraft in normal opps, that if an emergency did happen they would be worse than useless! And as for manual flying, forget it!

Are you suggesting that every BA, Aer Lingus, Air France and every other airline that recruited cadet pilots over the years is bloody dangerous, way behind the aircraft etc etc... Thats just rubbish. Airlines that sponsor trainee pilots have an extensive recruitment policy and weed out anyone who isn't up to flying for them.

[757manipulator]

757manipulator, if you don't want to apologise fine and congrats on your flying success, i do sincerely mean that, but you paid for your initial training and lived on no salary for about 15months or so!!!! isn't it ironic for you to have a go at people willing to pay for there own type rating with FR or anyone else for that matter

WRONG.....Glennox, go back and read what I typed, and dont put your own spin on what Ive said
I said I worked a second and third job to pay the bills....I didnt say I worked these jobs because I wasnt being paid a fare rate for my endeavours
The FACT is I worked these other jobs as my first positions in aviation were not full time, they were however paid at a fair level when I did work. Glennox if you looked beyond the end of your own nose you would have understood that.
As for paying for my CPL/IR, I look on this as my license to learn, a type rating however is another matter entirely, as it allows one to operate revenue generating flights, therefore you are entitled to be paid for this.
Finally, yes correct no apology, your comments were ignorant, irresponsible, and in my opinion truely awful.

[mightymouse111]

If Ryanair were the only offer on the table. I would not take it, unless I had £30,000 in the bank that could not be spent elsewhere!
I think its very easy to follow your dream and let common sense fly out the window. People are exploting you for your dream!
Personally I would not want to get myself into that sort of debt, i fly because i love it and it improves my quality of life. But what sort of quality of life will have have when I cannot afford to feed myself, put a roof over my head or petrol in my car.

[dartagnan]

I am a ryanair pilot, and I suggest you to stay away from them.
I had to wait 12 months before to touch an airplane, they took all my money.I have been threated by their manager tha if I leave they would sue me,...
now I am flying, I wake up at 4 am everyday, we work 13-15h non stop, 7-8 hours fly a day, week end included, no holyday.

It s creazy, we are very tired, and we have to go back flying.
I pay for my B&B, uniform, food, for everything. after 6 months, they didnt pay me yet...

they treat us like ****, even less than a piece of ****, we have to pay even our own pencil, their stupid dispatch room has no office ustencil....

this company is an insult!should I say more?

[Olek6]

I agree with both sides of this discussion, but my only comment is: THIS IS A HIGHLY ENTERTAINING THREAD, seeing all these people getting worked up about NOTHING, and people commenting about things they know F#¤%CK all about!!!! Sorry my FRENCH, but there you go!!!!!

PS. Might have had one too many drinks!

Okay, now i'm, stitting here.....shall I post this or not....hhmmmm....ohhh well, go on then! Have a laugh, cause obvoulsily noone else has!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stjuk]

Dartagnan, please check you PM.

[757manipulator]

Well now having seen the Channel 4 show....do you really want to work for a comapny with these work practises? Let alone pay for your type rating. Sums up what a couple of captain friends of mine tell me on a regular basis

[KILO-04]

Dartagnan,
I was wondering how much has it cost you to carry out all the training for FR (including any hidden costs)?
Thanks
K4

[Fancy Navigator]

After tonight's show on C4, you still want to work for them?
A company where pilots are afraid to speak up or take safe decisions just in case they might get sacked?
WAKE UP !!!!!!
FNav

[euroflyer]

RHS RYANAIR

I think most of these postings answer the question about a RHS with Ryanair, stay away from them especially ab-initios!!!!
Good luck to those looking for a job!

[navdisplay]

Any pilot working for Ryanair on this forum??

Hy all

Is there any pilot happy to work for Ryanair????

It is impossible that no one of the nearly 800 pilots currently working for Ryan is happy........

All of you are saying bad things about Ryanair (true or not i don't know)..........but the truth is that none of you is working for them.........so.......how can you prove those things???

I have friends (based in italy) working for them saying that is a good place to work and also the training is good.....

I really don't know.............

[Carmoisine]

I think the most frustrating thing about working for them is that things could be so much better, so easily. The aggression from office staff, the nasty corporate culture, the greed etc are all so unecessary. I don't think you get the best out of people by treating them like that.

Having said that, once the doors are closed and all the hassle stops, its not the worst job in the world, in fact if all the other hassles stopped it would be a great job.

I would suggest you read here though if your thinking of joining: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=208754

[Busbar]

carmoisine has summed it up well. The job is fine and I'm happy with it.

[Porco Rosso 76]

my 2 cents:

i'm a 250 hours. I'm applying to become a FI.
I have no money to spend in a type rating.
But i say to myself: life is hard and a TRUE career is builded in TIME.
Bring on your career STEP by STEP, little steps, enjoy and learn between this steps with another philosophy. ALL and NOW philosophy is not good. If anyone like Ryanair make you think that is possible to build a career buyin it and not building it, let your brain work: THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT.
I have some school collegue that have paid their type rating and now are in airlines. I don't disagree with them: if they have the money to do it... why not to do it?
But don't crash your personal life building a debt that destroy your personal quality of life for many years.

If you like to fly, enjoy flying everything: a little SEP with a student on your side, a little MEP with two costumers that can give you some hint on financial businnes or a piper to look for fire in the woods.
THIS IS FLYING.

If you destroy your life with debts and problems just to put on an uniform or to satisfy your self consideration telling friends that you pilot a boeing, i believe you don't like "Flying"... you like something else.

My grandpa says: Wisdom is to put a shoes in front of the other having time to look out to the landscape.

Excuse me for my bad english and remember that all life choices are personal.
This message is not a judgement, is only my little point of view.

Porco Rosso, Tuscany, Italy

[Say again s l o w l y]

Very wise words from the red pig!

[Stratman]

If you had ever met some of the persons that run these airlines you would quickly see that the sstr trend has got nothing whatsoever to do with market forces, as is often believed, but quite a lot to do with the ability to make maximum profit possible, basically its only greed, and make no mistake about this, some of these people are animals to work for. They change the terms and conditions for new entrants becuse they can, not because they have to, they also attempt to push existing pilots to the limit, but can`t get away with quite as much, yet. Once the mindset of ` This is my dream job` , and I will do anything to get it` changes then the sstr would have to go with it.
Normally though by the time that happens, after continual early/late starts, finishes, anti social life style, broken relationships, and stress caused by anything from malfunctions to near misses { yes they do breakdown, they are only machines] and people discover that being a pilot is only just another job, better than some, worse than others, . Of course in the real world it won`t happen as we all bought into the dream { literally] and no doubt we will continue to do so.
Good Luck.

[UltraSonic]

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and i think it's time i gave my input to this "Ryanair Saga".

First a little about myself:
I live in Belgium, started flight school when i was 18, ab-initio.
I did my flight school with Ben Air Flight Academy (http://www.bafa.be - dutch) in evening school. Worked in the day hours to pay my school and went to school in the evening. Aside from that i had some help from my parents with payments like car, etc....
I finished school when i was 22.

Now here is my input:
It seems to me that most of you guys and galls have a "HERE AND NOW" expectation when you finish flight school, well, FORGET THAT.
Take it easy, don't go directly for that big jet, you WON'T get it, and if you do, your screwed. It's as simple as that.
Why not do like i do, contact a small local airport, ask for prices to rent an aircraft and place some advertising, whatever, take people on small trips, foto shoots, pick up and returns, package delivery, etc.... there is ENOUGH outthere if you let that grey mass inside your head work.
Do your time building, it won't cost you one penny.

I can see what the problem is here, your not flying those big birds.
Well, get over it. Why did you start flgith school in the first place? TO FLY. Not to tell your friends, parents, girlfriend your driving the bigest planes around the globe. I have a general love for "flying", not "flying big birds". I know, other people in our hard world of aviation, most people even, will laugh at you. So what? Your flying, they aren't, your building time, they aren't.

When you have enough time building and enough ME hours go write to some airlines, don't take the biggest outthere, start with the small ones and you'll see things are very different when you got something to show.

That's about the best of advice i can give you and it's worked for me. Right now i'm at the right seat of an MD-11, it took me 8 years but i'm there and you know what? I didn't put myself into debt and didn't destroy my personal life so boys and galls, there are ways, just keep holding on to that dream, don't let go and give it time.

Regards,
Ultra.
Belgium.

[dartagnan]

I personaly think you have to look at the quality of the airline.
flying a big jet and having an ass as a manager is the worse thing you can get in your life.

flying a smaller plane in a good company makes you happy.
I would refer to be paid to fly a turboprop than not to be paid and flying a Boeing.
So stay away from these companies like ryanair, who tell you you will get your hours...
my dream, is to get out of the plane, run to the bank to cash my salary cheque! and buy my things I want for christmas and have a car, and enough money to go out with a girlfriend. can you do that at ryanair, no!

do I have a life at ryanair? NO....what is the point to have jet hours and never be paid???