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CTC holdpool (ATPers)

Old 24th Apr 2007, 15:06
  #281 (permalink)  
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Anyone been in contact with CTC recently re: when the ATP will reopen applications?
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Old 24th Apr 2007, 15:10
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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recent reply from them i.e. 2 weeks ago:

Changing
operational
>needs require us to put a temporary hold on all ATP selection
activity.
>
>When selection activity resumes the first point of notification will
be at
>our website www.ctcaviation.com.
>At present our best estimate is early Autumn but we would ask you to
check
>the website each month for any updates
>In the meantime, thank you for your interest in CTC Wings ATP
programme.
>Regards,
>CTC Wings Selection.
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Old 24th Apr 2007, 15:25
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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Iīm preparing for a relaxed summer...

Hereīs what I "know":

Last movements after the "EZY raid" were two guys to FCA (A320) and four guys to TCX (757). Both deals were 6 months contract and I got the impression the possibility for a prolonged employment was bigger with FCA but not ruled out with TCX.

2 guys are still swimming from the AQC that started in September and ended in October. I believe three guys have been taken from the course behind, however I donīt know how many are left from that course.

The general opinion seems to be - not very surprisingly - that the charters are done with the recruitment for the season, but then again, you never know when they might come screaming in panic needing pilots preferably yesterday.

EZY seems to be focusing on their TRSS guys at the moment. There are no CTC people booked for any of the courses in May, however there are a few blank names. This means the names havnīt been given to CTC, but that theyīre _probably_ marked for TRSS guys. Again, with a bit of luck...
June and July seemes to be a big black hole as far as EZY is concerned, but the situation in August pretty much matches May. Again though, with a bit of luck.

I donīt know how much of the above is actually news to you all but this is the picture I have from talking to people inside and outside CTC. Itīs not a very positive picture but we all know what comes with false hope. To be honest my mindset is to consider any movement over summer as a bonus, not to become dissapointed. Having that said, Iīm among the two first in the pool. Iīve been here for seven months and my friends are already flying. After all, in a year well look back laughing at this since weīre after all sitting on pretty much the best deal a newbie can have.

Keep swimming, try not to drown!

/ Instinct
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Old 24th Apr 2007, 16:03
  #284 (permalink)  
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Thanks buggingout, it looks like other avenues need to be looked at!

FWIW I emailed them about 2 months ago and June was the magical date for them to reopen apps. So in 2 months, it's been put back from June 'till autumn.
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Old 24th Apr 2007, 16:11
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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yeah, it'd be nice (interesting) to know if you'd get past phase 1 or not without all this waiting!

oh well.....back to CV bashing
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Old 24th Apr 2007, 21:59
  #286 (permalink)  
 
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Hey instinct,

How are you. Thanks for the information bro.
Maybe some opportunity comes around with one of the other partner airlines. But like you said, most of them will probably have there neccesary amount of pilots for this summer season. But you never know, with a bit of luck......I also inflated my matrass again and I m preparing for a upcoming long swim. Take care and speak soon.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 09:09
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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CTC doublespeak

I think it is absolutely utterly disgraceful that companies like this can take your time, money and hopes for the long distance rollercoaster ride that they appear to have done. The high cost, and presumably high standard of Airline Qualification on the course ought to be rewarded with a guaranteed job, or your money back and compensation to boot. Compensating you for their negligence in taking you on a course when their expertise ought to give them the knowledge that it is unlikely they will find you a job in the short, or even longer term. Compensating you for the loss of money, time and for the anguish involved.

It's high time that far too many people, companies and crooks stopped exploiting the situation of desperate low hours pilots who have already spent far too much of their own money and nerves getting qualified, and it is also time that companies like CTC and others started TELLING THE TRUTH. If they did, of course, far fewer of our brethren would be lining up for what appears to be the outside chance of a job in the distant and undetermined future, and what actually appears to be purely a business opportunity for those supplying these so called qualification packages.

I am sick and tired of the exploitation in this industry, and it's time it was stamped out. Companies like CTC advising you in what is a big financial decision, and charging you money ought to be regulated like the insurance, financial services, and legal professions to name but a few. If they had sold you a with profits endowment on this never never basis it would be an offence, and there would be financial and criminal penalties for such mis selling.

Here endeth the rant.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 09:28
  #288 (permalink)  
 
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Well Dried Ears, I don't think anyone at CTC has told us anything that they don't believe themselves. It's a scheme that is over 10 years old and has an excellent record of placing guys into airlines that would have been well out of their league.

But yes, you were right about it being a long distance rollercoaster ride. Something will come up but it does seem to be in the undetermined and distant future. Not a nice situation to be in.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 09:39
  #289 (permalink)  
 
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Just to put your current wait into a little perspective. Seven years ago I was in your position, waiting in the hold pool. It took over a year to get a job, but when it came I was sitting in the front seat of a B757 with barely 200 hours.

Just think about that while you sit there and moan, how many other companies do that for you?

It can be frustrating, but CTC works by forecasting a need from airlines and then having the correct people in place to wave under a chief pilots nose when he/she starts to panic. Most of the time they get it right, sometimes not.

As I have said, it can be frustrating for those left waiting, but it will happen, its just a mater of when.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 09:51
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I would argue that occasionally they get it right, as you put it. Most of the time they are just making money. I haven't read one single report of a student who was told categorically, preferably in writing, of the poor forecast before he signed the cheque. As experts they shouldn't be getting it wrong. My stockbroker never gets it wrong, or he goes out of business, he tells me in advance all of the risks and gives an accurate assessment of the liklihood of failure before I give him my money. He's an expert, experts don't get it wrong. Experts have knowledge and skill to make an assessment based on experience and qualifactions. That's what you pay for, not a wing and a prayer chance of a job sometime never.

When they get it wrong they are penalised, and I don't see that happening in aviation employment consultancy, which is the service CTC supply to pilots return for payment.

False promises is what I call it. Period.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 11:06
  #291 (permalink)  
 
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Dried Ears,

I'd like to refer you to this page and specifically the following from it:

If I reach the holding pool, how long will it take to be placed with a partner airline?
We wish we could tell you! Sometimes it can be a week, sometimes 6 months or even a year. It depends entirely on demand from the partner airlines.


Am I guaranteed an airline placement if I get through selection?
There are no guarantees but, since 1994 when the ATP Scheme started, all those who reached the holding pool of short listed pilots were placed with an airline. It is just the timing that is hard to predict.

It's there, quite clearly, in black and white. You're not guaranteed a job, as the FAQ answer says, but the 100% placement record speaks for itself. They even say it might take a year. As far as I can see, they're telling nothing but the truth here. What exactly do you want?
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 11:16
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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I think he wants less sales talk and more facts.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 11:20
  #293 (permalink)  
 
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I think a large part of the problem is that for a good period there was time where graduates were finishing the course and spending only a short time in the hold pool. When I applied last July this was the case.

However, as bjkeates states it clearly explains on their website that you could be in the pool for some time, depending on current demand. When I finished the course in February I was well prepared to spend at least the next 6 months swimming. Obviously it would be nice to get a phone call asking me to start a TR next week but I am certainly under no illusion that it will be a long wait. Despite this, I believe it is still the best place to be for a low hours pilot and the quickest was into the RHS of a jet.

I am in the fortunate position of being an FI so can stay current without any further cost, but I can see it being very frustrating for guys having to pay to fly still.

In the meantime can we keep this thread on track with info about holdpool movement and not when the ATP applications may open again.
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 18:42
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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Jonty:

I donīt know if your post was aimed for me since Dried ears donīt seem to be a part of the holding pool but if thatīs the case I just want to make a point of that my post was not a complaint. Rather the opposite in fact, looking at the last part of it. It was merely a contribution with what I believe myself to know since someone asked.
I share your view. In a year weīll be looking back totally think it was worth the wait. As far as Iīm concerned I donīt have to wait a year to believe itīs worth it, I already do.

Dried ears:

As someone pointed out youīre right about the rollercoster part, but thatīs about it.
There are many organisations taking advantage of low houred panic stricken pilots but still, after 7 months in the holding pool I tell you CTC is not one of them. I donīt know what you know about the deal but the bottom line is that WE are not the ones they make money from. The main income comes from the type ratings their partner airlines buys from them. Weīre just a result of CTC creating their own market which by the way is smart and a win-win situation. The money is nothing compared to for example bying a typerating. On top of that you get one third back in some cases. You enter the right seat without a bond and normal salary.
As far as Iīm concerned CTC has never lied, never promised anything they couldnīt keep, never painted a prettier picture of the market then they believe existed and never told anyone thereīs a guarantie of job. The fact that they donīt, is a quality mark. I would look out for any airline organisation promising people jobs on these terms. No one, not even your stock broker can guarantie your money to grow, that would be unprofessional. However, youīre right about that if he doesnīt make it happen heīll be off the market. Guess what, so would CTC. Do you have any idea why they arenīt?
Last thing I heard was that out of about 400 pilots entering the CTC scheme, every one has been employed. They still donīt guarantie employment.

/ Instinct
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Old 25th Apr 2007, 21:30
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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OK! I shall just calm down and be patient once again then!!! It is easy to become dispondant and well.... impatient but the fact of the matter is we are in a great position with a company that has a perfect reputation for placing people, all be it eventually. We just have to trust that they will cotinue to do their job. I don't think they have really mislead anyone as we all know the nature of the beast. It's the industry setup rather than CTC thats at fault. In fact CTC really changed the system to help low houred, non intergrated students get jet jobs for a little more cash.

My only complaint is that their updates are not frequent enough. For the money I've paid I would expect to be kept very much in the loop.

Anyway if they don't inform us we must all keep talking ourselves with any snipets of info both good and bad!

Swim swim swim swim swim!!!!
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Old 26th Apr 2007, 09:08
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Dried ears......

WHO ARE YOU? WHAT ARE YOU ? WHAT ARE YOU ON THIS FORUM?

Question one for you to digest.... Why have CTC closed applications to the ATP scheme for the past 6 months ? ? Would that have something to do with the current backlog they are experiencing ? Surely if they were only interested in taking our money and ripping us of they would be still be selecting us with no-where for us to go.

Question two........ what is your aviation industry experience ? Because I need to enlighten you. CTC is the MOST professional, SOUGHT AFTER, highly repected and prestigious crew training centre in the Europe... probably the world.. So if you feel they are out to rip and cheat low hours pilots..... think again..... then my own suggestion for you is to get out of this industry as fast as you can...... because if that is your opinion of the best...........god help you when you come accross the real cowboys in this industry.

We all need tolerance and patience as we react to the changing pilot demand in this industry.

This year has seen four of the Largest UK charters merge into two. MYT/TCX and FCA/TOM. Also FLYBE and BACON have merged. This has affected the rate of placement from hold pool to type rating. As ' INSTINCT ' has said... we are in the best deal in the industry.

It will be a long time until we are 55 years of age on the flight deck.

Enjoy thses few months knowing that a firm job offer is in the bag.
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Old 26th Apr 2007, 10:25
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Dried ears.....dry your eyes son.
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Old 26th Apr 2007, 18:09
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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Tax back on AQC?

Is it possible to get tax back on the AQC in the UK? If so , what is the procedure?
Thanks
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Old 26th Apr 2007, 18:15
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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Fat chance.
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Old 27th Apr 2007, 06:01
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Eagle21


Value added tax is charged on flight training by HM customs in the United Kingdom at a rate of 17.5%

You will not be entitled to a tax refund regardless of your circumstances ie... whether your a UK resident/ living abroad etc... etc....!!!! Sorry!!!!

Boredaccountant
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