Why is it everyones goal to fly a big jet ??
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Why is it everyones goal to fly a big jet ??
I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that many people here simple want to fly a jet in an airline and would consider anything else as a 'inferior'.
I like flying aeroplanes, I like being in aeroplanes, I like just being around aeroplanes etc and would be quite happy spending my career flying twin pistons, small turbo props..... anything really. For many who aspire to be pro pilots, why is it that a big shiny jet is the only option ? To my mind, you become a pilot because you enjoy flying and it shouln't matter too much what it is you fly.
Anyone else agree ?
I like flying aeroplanes, I like being in aeroplanes, I like just being around aeroplanes etc and would be quite happy spending my career flying twin pistons, small turbo props..... anything really. For many who aspire to be pro pilots, why is it that a big shiny jet is the only option ? To my mind, you become a pilot because you enjoy flying and it shouln't matter too much what it is you fly.
Anyone else agree ?
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My thoughts:
You flyer higher
You fly faster
You fly for longer
You fly to many more destinations
You fly for a much more recognised purpose
Jets are safer(?)
Renumeration
Jets are far more interesting (for most)
Glass cockpits are far more interesting (for most)
You flyer higher
You fly faster
You fly for longer
You fly to many more destinations
You fly for a much more recognised purpose
Jets are safer(?)
Renumeration
Jets are far more interesting (for most)
Glass cockpits are far more interesting (for most)
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I want to fly jets (or big turbos) because you can get out of the worst weather (icing) more easily, you have wx radar and, if you have an engine failure, your departure is supposed to be gauranteed. Its not on a piston twin!
Icing and bad wx + not having the ability (due lack of pressurisation) to fly out of it is the main reason.
I heard someone say a while back...... "If you cant fly the fastest, fly the biggest!" It makes sense to me!
Icing and bad wx + not having the ability (due lack of pressurisation) to fly out of it is the main reason.
I heard someone say a while back...... "If you cant fly the fastest, fly the biggest!" It makes sense to me!
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I've only just started my PPL.. but eventually I would like to fly a big jet. However, I'm not overly bothered about coming straight out of training and getting a jet job... I'd quite happily spend a few years flying smaller aeroplanes. I think this would make for a far more interesting career than getting a jet job straight away. If you go straight to the big jet with an airline, what else is there to aim for? It's unlikely you'd "progress" to something smaller after a few years. I don't understand the fascination with getting there straight away - I'd guess it comes down to earning money to pay off the debts.
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..and some people fancy gliders, paragliding, or just simply spotting planes.
You have decided for yourselves that you like twins and small TPs. That's your choice and it will for sure be an interesting career, but I wouldn't swap with you if I got a million bucks.
You have decided for yourselves that you like twins and small TPs. That's your choice and it will for sure be an interesting career, but I wouldn't swap with you if I got a million bucks.
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OK I'll admit it. Being very computer/IT/automation minded I personally see myself as someone who would gain far more satisfaction out of punching a few numbers into a keypad, turning some dial and watching the plane follow. Sure I don't mind hand flying and riding the rough with my own hands and feet once a while but I do love automation and currently only jets can offer that. Thats me being honest for ya! 
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Originally Posted by buzzc152
I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that many people here simple want to fly a jet in an airline and would consider anything else as a 'inferior'.
I like flying aeroplanes, I like being in aeroplanes, I like just being around aeroplanes etc and would be quite happy spending my career flying twin pistons, small turbo props..... anything really. For many who aspire to be pro pilots, why is it that a big shiny jet is the only option ? To my mind, you become a pilot because you enjoy flying and it shouln't matter too much what it is you fly.
Anyone else agree ?
I like flying aeroplanes, I like being in aeroplanes, I like just being around aeroplanes etc and would be quite happy spending my career flying twin pistons, small turbo props..... anything really. For many who aspire to be pro pilots, why is it that a big shiny jet is the only option ? To my mind, you become a pilot because you enjoy flying and it shouln't matter too much what it is you fly.
Anyone else agree ?
I really am not at all desperate to get on jets, in fact it doesn't really appeal to me in the slightest.
Last edited by Will88; 31st May 2006 at 18:32.
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Totally agree with what female wannabe said. If the transition is from IR training on a Seneca or Duchess to a 737, have you really gained enough experience to handle something like that? Without diving into the MPL argument, I think starting off as a 'hands on' pilot will greatly increase your skills and judgement, whereas jumping straight into a jet is almost a tad risky. I've met cabin crew who say they feel unsafe with a 22 year old second in command of over 100 lives with nothing but a handful of hours on type.
Having to make decisions about weather etc makes the better pilot. If two pilots both have 15,000 hours, one all on a 73 the other on light singles and twins, turboprobs and jets, who do you think is likely to be the most experienced?
I also feel if you start high up the ladder, where do you go from there? I'd rather progress to the left seat of a jumbo, feeling as if I'm really earning that seat. Someone once said to me "If you are truly a pilots pilot, you won't mind what and where you fly". One of the best pieces of advice I've ever had.
h
Having to make decisions about weather etc makes the better pilot. If two pilots both have 15,000 hours, one all on a 73 the other on light singles and twins, turboprobs and jets, who do you think is likely to be the most experienced?
I also feel if you start high up the ladder, where do you go from there? I'd rather progress to the left seat of a jumbo, feeling as if I'm really earning that seat. Someone once said to me "If you are truly a pilots pilot, you won't mind what and where you fly". One of the best pieces of advice I've ever had.
h
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hingey
Thats great logic an'all but when you have just finished training at somewhere like OAT for example. Their is the slight matter of £60k to pay back. The fact of the matter is flying jets generally pays better. If/When I come out of flight training one day, I would love to fly as many types as possible, but realistically will that happen?
Ghostie
Thats great logic an'all but when you have just finished training at somewhere like OAT for example. Their is the slight matter of £60k to pay back. The fact of the matter is flying jets generally pays better. If/When I come out of flight training one day, I would love to fly as many types as possible, but realistically will that happen?
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Originally Posted by Superpilot
OK I'll admit it. Being very computer/IT/automation minded I personally see myself as someone who would gain far more satisfaction out of punching a few numbers into a keypad, turning some dial and watching the plane follow. Sure I don't mind hand flying and riding the rough with my own hands and feet once a while but I do love automation and currently only jets can offer that. Thats me being honest for ya!
) a few weeks ago and really enjoyed the actual feeling of handling the aircraftim currently looking for cheaper places to get hours and training.. looking at the pilot college here in Waterford Ireland but thats another thread.. so i dont want to go off topic in my very first post
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Hingey. I went onto a 737 with just over 200 hours. An experienced type rating examiner decided that I was good enough to pass my LST. After my line training, a training captain decided i was good enough to be released to the aviation world as a pro pilot.
I was also cabin crew for many years before hand and with the greatest respect to my colleagues down the back, how can they pass judgement? I couldnt have...
Another angle is this. Many of the emergencies conducted in the sim will never happen to a pilot in his career. Flying day to day is not rocket science. It is when it goes wrong that is the real test. An experienced pilot is just as inexperienced to an engine failure at V1 as a 200 hour pilot when it happens for real the first time. Experience gives you the capacity to deal with the problem but everyone has passed the same sim tests to deal with it. Experience obviously counts for a hell of a lot. Is that not why you have a captain and a first officer?
This is only my opinion and i am sure there are many who may disagree. Thanks for your time...... Answers on a postcard!
I was also cabin crew for many years before hand and with the greatest respect to my colleagues down the back, how can they pass judgement? I couldnt have...
Another angle is this. Many of the emergencies conducted in the sim will never happen to a pilot in his career. Flying day to day is not rocket science. It is when it goes wrong that is the real test. An experienced pilot is just as inexperienced to an engine failure at V1 as a 200 hour pilot when it happens for real the first time. Experience gives you the capacity to deal with the problem but everyone has passed the same sim tests to deal with it. Experience obviously counts for a hell of a lot. Is that not why you have a captain and a first officer?
This is only my opinion and i am sure there are many who may disagree. Thanks for your time...... Answers on a postcard!
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Bad Credit..... So you go to work every day, jump in your big shiny jet and think........
Frankly, it shocks me to think a jet pilot with 100+ pax down the back has that cavalier attitude. You practice emergencies because they can and do happen. Qutoing the fact that it is a 1 in 1 million chance (or whatever it is) of getting a V1 failure means nothing when that one time happens to you.
You are absolutely correct when you say....
but you couldnt be more wrong when you say
Wrong.... A captain has loads more experience, has practised the drill many more times than you have, understands the principles a lot better and has more capacity. From then on your thread just contradicts itself.
Honestly, if the first quote is your attitude, you need to pull your head in man! Keep it in mind that you have only been tested for "bad" emergencies in a simulator where the worst that will happen is some soiled pants with a p45 following shortly after. You havent been tested in real life. You should always assume the worst scenario, then you are always prepared for it. If you dont, then when it does happen you sure as hell wont be ready. In my last OPC/LPC, I was told to assume EFATO. Self brief it, give yourself the options in your head, formulate a plan then go for it.
When the captain is giving the T/O brief, are you sitting there thinking, it will never happen to me!!! From the sounds of it, you are.
I live by a saying.... Assumption is the mother of all f$%k ups! Never assume it will never happen to you. NEVER!
Originally Posted by bad credit
Many of the emergencies conducted in the sim will never happen to a pilot in his career.
You are absolutely correct when you say....
It is when it goes wrong that is the real test.
An experienced pilot is just as inexperienced to an engine failure at V1 as a 200 hour pilot when it happens for real the first time.
Honestly, if the first quote is your attitude, you need to pull your head in man! Keep it in mind that you have only been tested for "bad" emergencies in a simulator where the worst that will happen is some soiled pants with a p45 following shortly after. You havent been tested in real life. You should always assume the worst scenario, then you are always prepared for it. If you dont, then when it does happen you sure as hell wont be ready. In my last OPC/LPC, I was told to assume EFATO. Self brief it, give yourself the options in your head, formulate a plan then go for it.
When the captain is giving the T/O brief, are you sitting there thinking, it will never happen to me!!! From the sounds of it, you are.
I live by a saying.... Assumption is the mother of all f$%k ups! Never assume it will never happen to you. NEVER!
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You haved hit the nail on the head my friend.
I got my FATPL back in 2001 (2 months after 9/11). Basically, I love flying. Flying anything. I have some turbo prop time, I instruct out of Cranfield and above all, I do not aspire to fly a bus back and forth, day after day, year after year. Yes, the money is good, but I like spending time with my wife and friends and my present position allows me this. I have a company that affords me a nice standard of living, but I still look forward most of all to the days I spend in an aircraft. Don't care if it is the Gulfstream or a PA28. The challenge is the same and the experience always fullfilling.
There are too many people out there who appear to want to be pilots so they can tell people they are a pilot. Come on, being a pilot is about just being in the air - In whatever.
Good call and enjoy your time in the air.
I got my FATPL back in 2001 (2 months after 9/11). Basically, I love flying. Flying anything. I have some turbo prop time, I instruct out of Cranfield and above all, I do not aspire to fly a bus back and forth, day after day, year after year. Yes, the money is good, but I like spending time with my wife and friends and my present position allows me this. I have a company that affords me a nice standard of living, but I still look forward most of all to the days I spend in an aircraft. Don't care if it is the Gulfstream or a PA28. The challenge is the same and the experience always fullfilling.
There are too many people out there who appear to want to be pilots so they can tell people they are a pilot. Come on, being a pilot is about just being in the air - In whatever.
Good call and enjoy your time in the air.
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Originally Posted by bad credit
An experienced pilot is just as inexperienced to an engine failure at V1 as a 200 hour pilot when it happens for real the first time. Experience gives you the capacity to deal with the problem but everyone has passed the same sim tests to deal with it. Experience obviously counts for a hell of a lot. Is that not why you have a captain and a first officer?
That said, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with line-releasing a pilot to fly, say, a 737 with around 350-400 hours. As long as the training system is rigourous enough to ensure that the student gets the maximum benefit from the training, and has the integrity to set and enforce minimum standards below which a student is removed from that training, then the airline should have every confidence that the new pilot will be able to operate to a certain minimum, but acceptable, standard, and will gain experience, knowledge, and usefulness as time goes by - until he or she is deemed ready for a command.
There is, however a great deal to be said for gaining experience in smaller, and, yes, arguably less reliable aeroplanes. Once on a modern jet, it is probably fair to say that the kind of emergencies practiced in the simulator are unlikely to strike most pilots. However, a great many testing situations will occur, of the type which can't be carried out in the sim - and it's here that experience is invaluable. Whether it's dealing with turbulence in the cruise, or lack of ground equipment on arrival, or any one of a myriad of situations which affect a pilot's daily life, you'll learn more, and faster, on that TP commuter than you will on an A320.
At the end of the day, those of you expecting to work in UK are extremely lucky that you can hope to have a choice of what to fly; there are many parts of the world where such a choice would be seen as pure luxury! Ask any Antipodean, for instance.
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Right now I am flying a L-1011 and my dream is to fly a.......Grand Caravan some where out there.
Each time I take my seat in the cockpit I review the emergencies in my head,I have had already an aborted TO 5 Kt before V1, and I can garanty you training in the sim and experience are everything.
Each time I take my seat in the cockpit I review the emergencies in my head,I have had already an aborted TO 5 Kt before V1, and I can garanty you training in the sim and experience are everything.
Last edited by rduarte; 31st May 2006 at 22:52.
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You are wrong to make the assuption that a statement i wrote is the attitude i take into the air. It was a statement and that was all. Is it not fact that people go through their career without encountering a major failure? Can i not say this without my integrity as a pilot being brought into question?
I am very aware that things can and do go wrong and prepare myself as best i can incase they do.
I did not explain myself properly with regard the next quote but you are totally right with experience in the sim etc.... I did mention the capacity side of it but practice i didnt so thanks for putting me straight on that one.
You also mention that i have only been tested for emergencies in a sim environment. Thats true. Taking into account the experience debate, if you have only ever had an emergency in a sim, 200hours or 5000 hours then its going to be a new experience for both of you when it happens in real life. That was the point i was trying to make so apologies if i confused you.
I am very aware that things can and do go wrong and prepare myself as best i can incase they do.
I did not explain myself properly with regard the next quote but you are totally right with experience in the sim etc.... I did mention the capacity side of it but practice i didnt so thanks for putting me straight on that one.
You also mention that i have only been tested for emergencies in a sim environment. Thats true. Taking into account the experience debate, if you have only ever had an emergency in a sim, 200hours or 5000 hours then its going to be a new experience for both of you when it happens in real life. That was the point i was trying to make so apologies if i confused you.