easyJet (merged)
Join Date: Mar 1999
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It takes a lot to get me irate but I have to say this ...
WHY DON'T ALL YOU LOW HOUR LOSERS STOP YOUR GODDAM MOANING??!!!
Now let me qualify that first of all by saying that I, too, would very much like a jet job with Easyjet, or indeed any other jet airline that is willing to give me one.
The difference between me and you though, is that I have been flying full time for just under 10 years and have several thousand hours, a mixed bag of instructing civilian and military, single and multi IFR, flying remote strip air ambulance work around New Zealand and now flying non-autopilot equipped perf A turboprops around the outer hebrides of Scotland in some of the most unpredictably bad weather in the entire world.
I have also lectured classrooms of students on all but one of the CPL theory subjects and several of the ATPLs at various stages. I have never in my life failed a written or oral flight test and I have never had a student fail on me either.
I'm not trying to brag or build up my fragile ego or anything and I know I still have a lot to learn but my point is that I AM a goddam better pilot than anyone who has 200 hours. It's that simple.
If any of you don't believe it then come up here to Scotland and I'll prove it to you. You name the aircraft and the discipline ... instrument flying, spot landings, circling-ndb-approaches-to-minima-in-a-35-knot-crosswind,
whatever you like, and I will kick your ass. I'm serious and I'll put money on it if anyone wants to take me up on it just PM me.
I am just so sick of hearing this 200-hour-guys are so hard done by nonsense ... some of you lot really really need to do some hard years of hard graft and learn a little bit more about what aviation is really about, instead of sitting here pontificating what is, with all due respect, complete and utter b*ll*cks, about how you and your little 200 hours really makes you a better pilot than anyone else.
I'm sorry but it has to be said.
*Straps flak helmet on and enters bunker*
WHY DON'T ALL YOU LOW HOUR LOSERS STOP YOUR GODDAM MOANING??!!!
Now let me qualify that first of all by saying that I, too, would very much like a jet job with Easyjet, or indeed any other jet airline that is willing to give me one.
The difference between me and you though, is that I have been flying full time for just under 10 years and have several thousand hours, a mixed bag of instructing civilian and military, single and multi IFR, flying remote strip air ambulance work around New Zealand and now flying non-autopilot equipped perf A turboprops around the outer hebrides of Scotland in some of the most unpredictably bad weather in the entire world.
I have also lectured classrooms of students on all but one of the CPL theory subjects and several of the ATPLs at various stages. I have never in my life failed a written or oral flight test and I have never had a student fail on me either.
I'm not trying to brag or build up my fragile ego or anything and I know I still have a lot to learn but my point is that I AM a goddam better pilot than anyone who has 200 hours. It's that simple.
If any of you don't believe it then come up here to Scotland and I'll prove it to you. You name the aircraft and the discipline ... instrument flying, spot landings, circling-ndb-approaches-to-minima-in-a-35-knot-crosswind,
whatever you like, and I will kick your ass. I'm serious and I'll put money on it if anyone wants to take me up on it just PM me.
I am just so sick of hearing this 200-hour-guys are so hard done by nonsense ... some of you lot really really need to do some hard years of hard graft and learn a little bit more about what aviation is really about, instead of sitting here pontificating what is, with all due respect, complete and utter b*ll*cks, about how you and your little 200 hours really makes you a better pilot than anyone else.
I'm sorry but it has to be said.
*Straps flak helmet on and enters bunker*
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Well well, things are certainly hotting up in this post then!!
I have read it with interest and can see both points of you, it certainly is interesting though how posts like this degenerate very quickly into 'who is the better pilot' someone with 200 hours or someone with thousands of hours. To be honest I think it is impossible to say with certainty. The only thing you can say is that logic would suggest that the more experienced you are the better all round pilot you will be, notice I didn't say the more talented or skilled pilot but the better all round pilot, there is a difference.
When it comes to employing pilots at an airline like EasyJet the recruiters will be looking to fill the vacancies with pilots from all experience levels, it is no use to them hiring all pilots with 1,500 hours because who are going to be the longer term F/O's. They need to hire some lower hour guys as it ensures a proportion of pilots who will be F/O's for a little longer and hey, if they can recruit anyone through some sort of 'Sponsorship' scheme like the TRSS or CTC then all the better because they save on the wage bill aswell.
Now as a pilot with over 2000 hours, I like LukeSkytoddler have done all sorts of wierd jobs to build those hours and at times it is frustrating when you keep hearing of 200 hour pilots gaining employment straight onto jets when it is something you are desperate to move onto aswell.
It can feel that you are climbing the stairs slowly but surely then every now and then someone jumps on the express elevator straight to the top!! Just because I feel like that sometimes, doesn't mean that I think I deserve the job more. Good on those who get a jet job at 200 hours, this will always be a reality in the UK and Europe (almost unheard of elsewhere in the world). We all just need to respect each other and not B*tch and moan when others are getting employed over ourselves!!
Times will improve, heres hoping we all meet on the flight deck soon regardless of 200 or 2000 hours in you log book.
I have read it with interest and can see both points of you, it certainly is interesting though how posts like this degenerate very quickly into 'who is the better pilot' someone with 200 hours or someone with thousands of hours. To be honest I think it is impossible to say with certainty. The only thing you can say is that logic would suggest that the more experienced you are the better all round pilot you will be, notice I didn't say the more talented or skilled pilot but the better all round pilot, there is a difference.
When it comes to employing pilots at an airline like EasyJet the recruiters will be looking to fill the vacancies with pilots from all experience levels, it is no use to them hiring all pilots with 1,500 hours because who are going to be the longer term F/O's. They need to hire some lower hour guys as it ensures a proportion of pilots who will be F/O's for a little longer and hey, if they can recruit anyone through some sort of 'Sponsorship' scheme like the TRSS or CTC then all the better because they save on the wage bill aswell.
Now as a pilot with over 2000 hours, I like LukeSkytoddler have done all sorts of wierd jobs to build those hours and at times it is frustrating when you keep hearing of 200 hour pilots gaining employment straight onto jets when it is something you are desperate to move onto aswell.
It can feel that you are climbing the stairs slowly but surely then every now and then someone jumps on the express elevator straight to the top!! Just because I feel like that sometimes, doesn't mean that I think I deserve the job more. Good on those who get a jet job at 200 hours, this will always be a reality in the UK and Europe (almost unheard of elsewhere in the world). We all just need to respect each other and not B*tch and moan when others are getting employed over ourselves!!
Times will improve, heres hoping we all meet on the flight deck soon regardless of 200 or 2000 hours in you log book.
Airlines will take experienced type rated people if they can get them, failing that they will take the best raw material they can get and mould these people to the company way of doing things.
A young person with a new licence has had little chance to develop bad habits, and has no preconceptions on how to operate the type they are about to be introduced to. I have recently been involved in line training guys trained by CTC, they are all very low time and very capable, what they lack is experience this they will accrue over the next few years. They have been very much easier to line train than people with a back ground in geriatric turboprops ( I have nearly 5000 hours of such time). The CTC selection procedure and training standards ensure the right candidates are chosen and they are then prepared well for the task in hand.
It is I think important for all of us to remember an airline position is earned, it is not ours by right, and above all no one forced us down this path. I still wouldn't wish to change it for anything else.
A young person with a new licence has had little chance to develop bad habits, and has no preconceptions on how to operate the type they are about to be introduced to. I have recently been involved in line training guys trained by CTC, they are all very low time and very capable, what they lack is experience this they will accrue over the next few years. They have been very much easier to line train than people with a back ground in geriatric turboprops ( I have nearly 5000 hours of such time). The CTC selection procedure and training standards ensure the right candidates are chosen and they are then prepared well for the task in hand.
It is I think important for all of us to remember an airline position is earned, it is not ours by right, and above all no one forced us down this path. I still wouldn't wish to change it for anything else.
Luck. Plays a huge part in it all. Right place, right time, right shoes - whatever. All recruiting practices are flawed - they let numpties through and reject good guys sometimes. Same with sponsorship selection.
Once you start to appreciate the lottery aspect of it all it helps lower your blood pressure a tiny bit.
The thing is to be happy that at least now things ARE moving in the employment marketplace.
The big picture includes MyTravel surviving, Virgin and easyJet expanding solidly and even BA recruiting. The world and British economy is on the upswing and travel has never been so fashionable nor cross border trade so vibrant. New runways are planned, all airports are increasing capacity and new aircraft are being developed and ordered. There is no particular retirement bulge but there are a lot of Captains out there who joined airlines in the big package holiday boom of the 70's. The golf club is calling them.
In the months following Sept 11th 2001 I made quite a few posts about how Wannabe hiring and sponsorships were going to basically stop for a couple of years. Two and half years on I think the lean times have passed.
Good luck,
WWW
Once you start to appreciate the lottery aspect of it all it helps lower your blood pressure a tiny bit.
The thing is to be happy that at least now things ARE moving in the employment marketplace.
The big picture includes MyTravel surviving, Virgin and easyJet expanding solidly and even BA recruiting. The world and British economy is on the upswing and travel has never been so fashionable nor cross border trade so vibrant. New runways are planned, all airports are increasing capacity and new aircraft are being developed and ordered. There is no particular retirement bulge but there are a lot of Captains out there who joined airlines in the big package holiday boom of the 70's. The golf club is calling them.
In the months following Sept 11th 2001 I made quite a few posts about how Wannabe hiring and sponsorships were going to basically stop for a couple of years. Two and half years on I think the lean times have passed.
Good luck,
WWW
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Looks like the one with the "biggest problem" and who is complaining the most is Luke SkyToddler Guess, it was a bit inappropriate, because I haven't seen any "low-expierenced" guy complaining, neither here in the forum (probably, I've overseen one) nor in "real" life. We're just trying to discuss a bit...
sixmilehighclub
I don't mind if you're all god damn pilots, local flying heros, or whatever, if you can fly the ILS with the needles and the ball perfectly centered or if you can land a 747 with the hell of a crosswind. Who really cares? The only thing is to fly safe... and no one will ever really care about anything else..
4Screwaircrew, great point. Just think why all the reputated airlines try to have the pilots with them from flying hour 0...
BTW: As 4Screwaircrew said, we're in this business deliberately... so why complaining?
Guess, it was a bit inappropriate, because I haven't seen any "low-expierenced" guy complaining, neither here in the forum (probably, I've overseen one) nor in "real" life. We're just trying to discuss a bit...sixmilehighclub
I don't mind if you're all god damn pilots, local flying heros, or whatever, if you can fly the ILS with the needles and the ball perfectly centered or if you can land a 747 with the hell of a crosswind. Who really cares? The only thing is to fly safe... and no one will ever really care about anything else..
4Screwaircrew, great point. Just think why all the reputated airlines try to have the pilots with them from flying hour 0...
BTW: As 4Screwaircrew said, we're in this business deliberately... so why complaining?
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"The only thing is to fly safe... and no one will ever really care about anything else.."
How wrong you are ! The presumption is that you will always fly safely, however it is most certainly not the case that no one will care about anything else. This is a commercial world and it is important that any flying is profitable and efficient. That requires skills that will make an individual a commercial manager as well as a simple pilot. Factors such as airport closure times, weather, fuel loads, tankering, flight time limitation extensions, crew management, industrial relations, technical deficiences etc etc. These issues are the day to day realities of an airline pilot. Safety is the bedrock of aviation but as any experienced pilot will tell you it may be of paramount importance but is only the goal of all the compromises and previously mentioned commercial problems that will occupy a pilots day to day existence.
You will be expected to operate as safely as possible but people will most certainly care about everything else. This is "real life" my friend !
How wrong you are ! The presumption is that you will always fly safely, however it is most certainly not the case that no one will care about anything else. This is a commercial world and it is important that any flying is profitable and efficient. That requires skills that will make an individual a commercial manager as well as a simple pilot. Factors such as airport closure times, weather, fuel loads, tankering, flight time limitation extensions, crew management, industrial relations, technical deficiences etc etc. These issues are the day to day realities of an airline pilot. Safety is the bedrock of aviation but as any experienced pilot will tell you it may be of paramount importance but is only the goal of all the compromises and previously mentioned commercial problems that will occupy a pilots day to day existence.
You will be expected to operate as safely as possible but people will most certainly care about everything else. This is "real life" my friend !
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Bealzebub, you're right, but you did not get my point. You're pointing out what someone "inside" the industry does and knows but for all the ones "outside", passengers etc. they only want to fly save from point A to B (forget about the service, punctuality and stuff - of course to a limited extent too). A passenger does not care if the pilot is 55 or 25, if he's got 40000h or 1000h with frozen atpl. he just expects him to be capable of flying him safely to his destination.
No, no to be fair there are quite a few passengers who want the Captain to be called John Gauntlet (52) - sporting a mane of silver hair and a deep deep tan - sitting next to Senior First Officer Jack Steadfast (32).
The public have funny ideas.
Cheers
WWW
The public have funny ideas.
Cheers
WWW
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eagerbeaver
well to be honnest with you I think you are the type of guy "who knows it all"... don't you?
I will be surprise to see the kind of person you are....
you are the only one to have the right to "throw up " you bad words on french guys.... this is clever! very smart!
are you flying? ... as for myself i think you have nothing to do in a cockpit.... your attitude is BAD.... and a guy like make me sick... sorry but ... just bad!
this is what I will call RUDE:.....
"skyman stinks like a certain frenchman me thinks..."
I will be surprise to see the kind of person you are....
you are the only one to have the right to "throw up " you bad words on french guys.... this is clever! very smart!
are you flying? ... as for myself i think you have nothing to do in a cockpit.... your attitude is BAD.... and a guy like make me sick... sorry but ... just bad!
this is what I will call RUDE:.....
"skyman stinks like a certain frenchman me thinks..."
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Luke calm down, mate, no need to blow a gasket! But I know where you're coming from...
ziva You've obviously not been here very long. eagerbeaver's reference to 'a certain frenchman' is about an individual called Ronchonner that darkened these forums a while back with some very aggravating and provocative wind-up posts in very poor English. skyman68's posts read spookily like Ronch's....
The market in UK seems to me to be quite unlike that anywhere else, in that we have a recognised route for a few fATPLs to get into a jet cockpit with very few hours. This does a number of things: it leads all fATPLs to unrealistically believe that they can do the same; it pisses off those who feel they've put in the hours and been bypassed; but for the airlines that employ this approach, it gives a spread of experience they wouldn't otherwise have achieved without being in business for 35 years. It is important for the easyJets of this world that they don't end up with a workforce all between 35-45, who will therefore all retire in a compressed period - with all the problems that that implies for replacements etc. That is why a few 200-hour fATPLs get these jobs. Even though the market is improving, most of you will still have to follow Luke and Artificial Horizon on the slightly longer route to a 737 flight deck!
Scroggs
ziva You've obviously not been here very long. eagerbeaver's reference to 'a certain frenchman' is about an individual called Ronchonner that darkened these forums a while back with some very aggravating and provocative wind-up posts in very poor English. skyman68's posts read spookily like Ronch's....
The market in UK seems to me to be quite unlike that anywhere else, in that we have a recognised route for a few fATPLs to get into a jet cockpit with very few hours. This does a number of things: it leads all fATPLs to unrealistically believe that they can do the same; it pisses off those who feel they've put in the hours and been bypassed; but for the airlines that employ this approach, it gives a spread of experience they wouldn't otherwise have achieved without being in business for 35 years. It is important for the easyJets of this world that they don't end up with a workforce all between 35-45, who will therefore all retire in a compressed period - with all the problems that that implies for replacements etc. That is why a few 200-hour fATPLs get these jobs. Even though the market is improving, most of you will still have to follow Luke and Artificial Horizon on the slightly longer route to a 737 flight deck!
Scroggs
I, like most , still have many friends and aquaintances who are desperately trying to break into this game and get their first airline job. What always amazes me is the attitude that many of them have towards flying anything other than a boeing/airbus. When i suggest that they should be sending c.v's to all companies to get that first break I am stunned by the number that say it has got to be a jet, I don't want to fly a Dash or a Jetstream.
I do understand why everyone wants to fly a shiny new jet but early on you must take ( almost ) any flying job . Having said that i know just how difficult it can be to get any aviation job.
good luck to all, you will get there.
I do understand why everyone wants to fly a shiny new jet but early on you must take ( almost ) any flying job . Having said that i know just how difficult it can be to get any aviation job.
good luck to all, you will get there.
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eagerbeaver... I bag your pardon!
Ok..... scroggs I didn't know.... and I feel bad about it!
so I apologize to eagerbeaver ... but I do have a temper! sometimes when I think that this kind of comment shouldn't be here! we are all coming from a different countries ..... so no reason to "attack" more one then the other!... we are all humain and making mistakes!....
regarding what you said about the first job... i think that most of the pilots will get their first job with a small company... and then move on... but sometimes you get lucky... and get hired right away with low time! .... good luck for those one who are looking for a job... and NERVER give up!
ciao!
so I apologize to eagerbeaver ... but I do have a temper! sometimes when I think that this kind of comment shouldn't be here! we are all coming from a different countries ..... so no reason to "attack" more one then the other!... we are all humain and making mistakes!....
regarding what you said about the first job... i think that most of the pilots will get their first job with a small company... and then move on... but sometimes you get lucky... and get hired right away with low time! .... good luck for those one who are looking for a job... and NERVER give up!
ciao!
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Just to confirm - did ANYONE hear back from Easyjet after Bournemouth???
The more I think about it, the more the timing and location look all to perfect to be a genuine roadshow. I wonder how many EAAC pilots they picked up????
The more I think about it, the more the timing and location look all to perfect to be a genuine roadshow. I wonder how many EAAC pilots they picked up????
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Hmmmm...........
I drive a 757 now and its not bad,but if someone paid me £40k to fly a 152 I'd take it....
The big jet hard on doesn't last that long and you lucky ******s get to make all the decisions in your 152s,C310s etc..
I won't get to call the shots for many a year
Hope that makes some of you feel better....!
I drive a 757 now and its not bad,but if someone paid me £40k to fly a 152 I'd take it....
The big jet hard on doesn't last that long and you lucky ******s get to make all the decisions in your 152s,C310s etc..
I won't get to call the shots for many a year
Hope that makes some of you feel better....!
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..... lucky you!
Fade grey..... you know that a lot of people would like to be in your shoes...... I don't think you want to fly again a 152..... or other small aircraft! for the same amount of money!!!!
but I know what you mean...... and understand you!..
enjoy at list the view! and the fact to be comfortable in a large cockpit.....
ciao....
but I know what you mean...... and understand you!..
enjoy at list the view! and the fact to be comfortable in a large cockpit.....
ciao....
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I drive a 757 now and its not bad,but if someone paid me £40k to fly a 152 I'd take it....
Hope that makes some of you feel better....!
There are people out there who'd do anything to fly a jet and you describe it as "not bad". Why don't you go and gain a second profession earning £40k per annum and instruct for fun at weekends (i'll swap with you if you like and i earn £45k per year!!) . I'm sure it would improve your lifestyle and gain a new opening for a Wannabe.
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I attended and have not heard at all, just updated my application on-line also. I have an A320 type rating and so thought it might catch their eye. I don't have much time on type though. It is frustrating that there is no way to be in touch with recruitment to build PR!