Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)

[smith]

Antonov, you talk a load of ****e!!!

They did that to help and enhance their careers.

Diminish their careers don't you mean?????

Even the check-out girl in ASDA gets a sick pay, pension, uniform and doesn't have to sleep in her car in the carpark.

WAke up and stop talking out your arse!!!!!!!! ( * )

[One9iner]

I love a good tart

[antonov09]

Smith

You sound like a girl thats just come on her period. Sleeping in cars. What the Fk are you on about. What a load of bollox.

[TheBeak]

I disagree Antonov, I think Smith makes perfect sense. And that isn't me having something against you personally. Putting monetary values aside, how can a company justify making their workers pay for their uniform? It's absurd when they are posting 200 million + Euro profits.

If you don't think that Ryanairs bubble is going to burst, then why do you think MOL has talked about leaving in 2-3 years time? See:

Ryanair Boss Will Quit In Three Years | Self-Catering-Breaks News

O?Leary to leave Ryanair in about 3 years


Ryanair CEO says expects to quit in 2-3 years | Reuters


He knows. 'Rats always flee a sinking ship' as they say. This business model is a very short term, overly engineered pile of crap. Ryanair is literally infecting every airline in most corners of the world. And do you think that 3000 on a 737-800 with Ryanair is going to help you get into an airline beyond Ryanair? Do you know anyone that was at Excel? Maybe 6 years ago it might have but not anymore. The wonderful Ryanair put an end to that being possible when they showed the industry that there are enough cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends out there that are willing to spend an extortionate amount of money to legally do what an expensive, relatively experienced FO can do for pay. You lot have bitten the hand that feeds you. As always inertia is a key factor here and for something this large, you wont feel the effects of what you have done for a little while. But when you feel it, there'll be nothing you can do - at least you'll have realised your 'dream'. Don't take all this personally, I am sure in a bar or a a cockpit we'd all get on well (though no doubt some 19 year old Ryanair 'pilot' who is going through adolescence will say otherwise), you are doing what you need to do, but you really are ruining it for the rest of us and for yourselves in the future. Enjoy it while it lasts.

As for the sim costing a grand or £260 - unless you live at the location it's will cost you anywhere between £20 and a few hundred to get there, you may need a hotel too. I don't suppose they provide lunch either or a drink do they? No? I didn't think so. It all adds up.

If they needed you, they'd pay for you.

[lucair84]

Hi all,

first post on pprune... about to start my MCC at CAE on 1st feb...i havent booked anything, but thats what i really think would be best. Doesn anybody advise me better parc aviation? I really want to get a job now, as all of you, have spent way to much money for this training, and things as ive heard are going very bad. I have lotsa friends flyin for RYN and everyone is happy. They are obvs all young as i am. Any hint you can give me? U recon it would be better for me then to do it at cae? Ive heard that if ur performance on the course are standard (read excelent) they can arrange an interview... Has anybody did MCC there? Thanks everybody, take care all.

[FlyBoyFryer]

Firstly, hello to you Lucair84 and welcome to PPRuNe, I trust you'll enjoy the community!

As for the information you've requested re: a MCC at CAE, I would draw your attention to a recent former post of mine:

#1425 (permalink)

If you've already booked the course and/or have your heart set on it, I just hope you have a better experience with CAE than I and the others on my course did.

As for Parc Aviation, a friend of mine completed his MCC with them instead of CAE. He seemed happy enough with the instruction, course material and equipment used. I do believe, however, the 737 sim they made use of then was an older model (737-200, could be wrong) so it didn't have Flight Directors on the PFD... something you can expect to work with during the RyanAir interview, assuming you get one!

All the best,

Ciao!

[lucair84]

Flyboy

Thank you very much for ur hints, i did hear that parc uses the 737 200 so no FD on PFD, but as you said thats what the interview is based on (if I do get one) while CAE uses the 800's. Im pretty confident I will, i hate being negative about all this right now even if i ve heard way too much stuff... and im honestly sick of it, i just wanna find a flying job and get my ass on an airplane beaing paid (a lil, but still better than pay 250 quid an hour for a be76 lol)

Ciao!

[Callsign Kilo]

The wonderful Ryanair put an end to that being possible when they showed the industry that there are enough cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends out there that are willing to spend an extortionate amount of money to legally do what an expensive, relatively experienced FO can do for pay.

Jesus Beak, sometimes I think you live in a world where you believe airlines should be run as exclusive flying clubs for their pilots. Commercial aviation, like every other business in existance, has a sole purpose to make money. And to make money, amongst other things, you must control your costs. Lets take it away from an aviation perspective, so bare with me here.

Nov, 2008 - Car maker, Honda announces plans to close its Swindon plant creating fears for 4800 jobs. Speculation remains that the company will chose to relocate its operation in order to lower future costs.

Feb, 2009 - Computer company, Dell cuts 2000 jobs in Limerick in order to transport its operations to Poland where it can pay cheaper wages.

Aug, 2009 - Drinks giant director, Bryan Donaghey, admits that 700 jobs in Diageo Scotland could move overseas in order to lower costs

The list goes on. All these companies are exploring avenues in order to lower costs. So back to aviation....

Why do airlines employ cadets? Going by Oxford's figures, that lean and ever so efficient flag carrier of ours, employed almost 140 of their starry eyed cadets (assuming that's what they were) between 2005 and 2008. Why didn't they take on 140 DE FOs with JAR25 time? Probably because they wanted to give the Oxford lads a head start in life! (along with all the other integrated cadets that they took on from FTE, Cabair and CTC).

Why does the likes of Easyjet, Thomas Cook and Monarch get such a stiffy over the CTC Wings and Flexicrew schemes? Surely because they produce a superior kind of cadet First Officer? Not because of the fact that they can stick them on some 6 month contract, pay them 1K a month and then say toodle pip? Ahh, but they didn't pay for their TR? No, but they paid for it indiretly by fronting up the overinflated course cost with CTC and then accepting 1K a month for up to and including 100 hours of multicrew experience. I'll let you do the maths on that one in order to calculate an hourly rate!

What's the hidden reason for Aer Lingus persuing a UK AOC? Is it the same reason as why their Belfast and Gatwick crews aren't employed on the same salaries, terms and conditions as their Dublin counterparts?

The list again goes on. So I'll bring you back to your point about doing something for less - IT'S FECKIN EVERYWHERE MATE!! Or maybe we will just brand this lot and everyone else that does something for less as a 'scab' and 'parasite' as well?

I like to think of myself as a resonably level head type of fella who can often see the wood for the trees. If you seek out any of my posts on the matter you will see that the whole scenario that we find ourselves in as relatively new pilots stinks, completely and utterly. The SSTR and paying over the odds for training is nothing new. It had grown with monumental popularity long before either of us logged our first hour in a Cessna. Yet you take the moral high ground, just because you were fortunate enough for some now defunct airline to pay for your TR and give you a nice jacket and a cap with a bit of gold braid on it.

Here's a theory that you are probably unwilling to accept. Lets reintroduce your, 'I'm more holly than though' statement of...

that there are enough cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends out there that are willing to spend an extortionate amount of money to legally do what an expensive, relatively experienced FO can do for pay.

You went to OXFORD did you not? Modular or Integrated, you paid above and beyond the average cost for a UK issued CPL/IR and MCC. So why go to a school that talks about 'first officer direct,' has some two striped wonder peering out of the DV window of some airliner in it's latest brocher and bangs on about schemes with Flybe, BA, TCX and Netjets every second minute? Ws it because you were happy to wait your place in the que or was it because you wanted to maximise your chances of going directly to the RHS? Does this then make you a

self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end

because you gave two fingers to the traditional route, while all the other guys that spent the bare bones on their training spend there time instructing, dropping parachutes and towing gliders (if they are lucky!)

Discuss

[spanner the cat]

Sorry Callsign Kilo but your post rather makes Beaky's point - although as you rightly point out RYR aren't the only ones doing it. It's a festering sore in the industry but it has to be said that RYR have headed the plunge to the bottom. Indeed previous logic - where you needed experience to get a job has been turned on its head. Now you can't get a job unless you have no experience as you're not a cash opportunity for your employer.

I think BA does the cadet-thang because they are more easily able to mould their recruit into something that resembles a Nigel. They took on a lot of DEP's as well and the Cadets cost them a lot more to train - although aren't paid as much. I wouldn't quite lump BA in with RYR and Co.

I did traditional route myself and aside from the fact that it was fun and I learned a lot - I'd have been very pleased going straight into the RHS of a big shiny jet as would most.

The bottom line is that these guys don't understand what it is that they're doing to their future T's & C's. They'll see it one day, but not yet and I hope it isn't too late by then; and I think we know what the answer is to that one too.

Spanner

[CaptainElectron]

The handbags are out!

[go around flaps15]

I am a Ryanair cheating, queue jumping scumbag.

My first post on here. I have been working for Ryanair for a couple of years. I do understand what the Beak is saying about degrading terms and conditions. Im also sorry to see he is unemployed(737 jockey).
But I dont regret joining Ryanair.Even if I do one day find myself unemployed. I have had 3 good years with them and I enjoy every minute of it. But there you go I am a selfish so and so. I always have been, but I dont really care.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Explain?

Could someone please explain to me what it is exactly that I am doing to my future T+C's by joinging RYR??

Just because if it is that the future will be SSTR for every company, and no sick pay and no holiday pay etc, then unfortunaltly it is just progression from the airline industry, and I am sorry but that is what happens. That is self emplyment for you!
Callsign Kilo is exactly right, why would any airline not want to save money?? Especially after a 'slump' period where for the airlines that survived cash is a little short to come by! Let me see, pay my staff stupid sums of money, keep getting every bill and expense they put our way, feed them, water them, chuck in some parking for their drop top and make sure they look good in their tailored Hugo boss suits, or make them fork out a bit with their decent saleries and in two months time they still have a job!
I am sorry to say it but it is life! Just get use to it. As a cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end, I am one happy camper to have those T+C's for the rest of my life! Like I said on a previous post, I have had it all my current working life and so why shouldnt it continue??
Dont get me wrong, I do feel for people that have had it nice and cushty all there lives and are used to being paid for not doing any work or because you are feeling a little off.... cough HANGOVER!
If you dont like the way the industry is going GET OUT! Poeple keep suggesting ASDA?? I am sure your 4 bars will look good stacking shelves!

Dont hate the player, hate the game!!

[Callsign Kilo]

Thank you spanner for your input

I am not naive enough to believe that people such as TheBeak don't have a point. It's how they choose to present that point is what goads me. It's one of the easiest things in the world to form an agenda, make a few generalisations to fit with that agenda and then point the finger. It is even easier to do this when you believe that you sh1t smells sweeter than everyone elses, when many may infact believe that it doesn't.

Two things that we agree on

1. The traditional self-improver route no longer holds any real substance. I have said this before and I believe it to be very sad. The quality and standards of professional pilots will drop as a result.

FTOs have latched on to the fact that this route is no longer viable and acitvely hammer home alliances with airlines, TRTOs etc. Look at any integrated school and even beyond for examples. Airlines have fully grasped this pattern and are aware of what they can get away with. SSTRs, part-time contracts, cadet salaries, pay-to-fly schemes, ridiculous bonds etc.

2. T&Cs have taken a nose dive and yes indeed, the likes of Ryanair need to take the blame. The problem is that from day one you enter the debate of 'will I, won't I.' Will I go integrated, will I pay for a type rating, will I pay for line hours? In an era where an expectation of rapid transit through the training system to the RHS is set in stone, there is very little done or to show for the 'won't I' arguement. I'm not saying that this should be the case, however it is the case. Doing things the traditional way is no longer viable so it no longer features.

Thridly, with my point on basic economics. You will always find someone who will do something for less. I have seen some of the most moralistic, self-righteous people behave this way. The airline industry is no different. It was ruined years ago, long before the sniffy nosed 19-22 year old Ryanair cadet ,that TheBeak likes to preach his 'hallelujah's' to, grew out of short pants!

This industry doesn't owe anyone anything. That's the cold hard fact of it now - like it or not. Something which sadly was once a job for life, with massive salaries, massive benefits and massive subsidies has now fallen by the wayside. It's one hell of a mess, but no one collectively, from the ground upwards, has done anything to stop it. And no one ever will. Sure you can point the finger and say its all 'such and such' at fault. We can all do that, it achieves nothing

[TheBeak]

Tommyg737 you are either trying to coerce an argument or you really do have a very short sighted outlook on life. Without the players there is no game. I 'hate' the players.

Why do airlines employ cadets?......

Up to now other airlines schemes and Ryanair were incomparable - Ryanair used and abused and other airlines offered a mutual investment in each other via bonded TRs/ reduced salaries. Of course Easyjet is now following suit via CTC and are quite frankly making themselves look very slow, unimaginative and silly. Flybe still offer a relatively good package which requires no monetary investment from the trainee. As for the other airlines - let's wait and see what they do, we are yet to see much movement that would give some substance to comment on anywhere. Sure we could discuss Wizz Airs scheme in which they charge 51000 Euros for a training package - but then they are owned by the same as Ryanair.

Thridly, with my point on basic economics. You will always find someone who will do something for less. I have seen some of the most moralistic, self-righteous people behave this way. The airline industry is no different. It was ruined years ago, long before the sniffy nosed 19-22 year old Ryanair cadet ,that TheBeak likes to preach his 'hallelujah's' to, grew out of short pants!

And that's what it boils down to, my whole point, we are left with the lowest common denominator flying the fare paying public through the skies.

You will always find someone who will do something for less.

The words you missed off the end are 'if they can'. Which is where in most cases the 'mummy and daddy' factor springs in. Who gives a about experience anymore, if it's legal and it's cheap, it's best. It's a short term attitude. I have said what I have said as clearly as I can be bothered to say it in my last post. No one can prove the future and it really boils down to whether you care about what lies ahead or if you are more than busy and happy with the present. If you fit the former profile the future of an airline pilot is incredibly worrying. If you sit more in the later camp, like tommyg737, then you will probably learn the hard way. What you don't know CAN hurt you. Start looking ahead.

Callsign Kilo, you offer a constructive argument and I ask you and others who are going to comment to keep it respectful and mannerly rather than allow this thread to descend into the usual slanging match that it always does.

[Rhodes13]

keep it respectful and mannerly rather than allow this thread to descend into the usual slanging match that it always does.

Shouldn't you take your own advise beak and try to refrain from calling people bellends, whores and scabs?

Perhaps what is good for the goose is good for the gander?

[PPRuNeUser0165]

The Beak you hate everyone! But i am just a cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end, so what would I know or care really!!! Hence the self centered bell end responce earlier!
You havent answered my question??
What am I actually doing to my future T+C's by joining RYR now??

[TheBeak]

You don't have Ts and Cs, the airline does. With regards to Ryanair and less severely the industry? You have set a downward trend for your future earning, your future prospects and your future net worth. You are losing security. You are losing the long view. You are losing FULL STOP.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Thankyou

Thankyou The Beak! Atleast now I trully understand what my personal actions are doing to this industry through YOUR opinion!
Still going to do it though, I would be mad to and mad not to! But then again I am a cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell end!
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Safe flying to all us bell ends and you the beak!

[go around flaps15]

The Beak

"cheating, self centred, queue jumping, impatient little bell ends" Quote from the Beak. And then you preach about slanging matches. You are an absolute hypocrite.

[dick byrne]

Beak

Lets all shed a tear for the moaning, hypocritcial Beak, who has just conterdicted himself with regard to "slanging matches" . This user is in a bad place. His credibility now at very very all time low.