UK jobs market and where and how to find that first job?
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Hey Magneto, I am from Belgium and A320 is from Swiss! Although I have been accused of being one and the same, I must say that I still admire A320 for his 'stand-up comedian' like writing and the touch of reality in his posts...
And for your info, TNT only recruiting people with Belgian nationality because so many foreigners came just to learn and left after a short period...you could try with a SSTR but consider all other application being thrown straight in the dust bin.
Sorry for this reality.
And for your info, TNT only recruiting people with Belgian nationality because so many foreigners came just to learn and left after a short period...you could try with a SSTR but consider all other application being thrown straight in the dust bin.
Sorry for this reality.
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Originally Posted by zooloflyer
Hey Magneto, I must say that I still admire A320 for his 'stand-up comedian' like writing and the touch of reality in his posts...
And for your info, TNT only recruiting people with Belgian nationality Sorry for this reality.
And for your info, TNT only recruiting people with Belgian nationality Sorry for this reality.
for TNT, there is no hope. they want pilots living close of their airport.I think I will try the bullet thing in Africa.
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So your moaning about not getting a job and you won't shift your arse to where there is one. And I thought you already had a type rating A320.
There is a very good safety reason for living close to the airport, walking distance is the safest thing. The driving in Belgium is insane the buggers try and get you coming out of side roads and the older generations (over 40 I think it was 1979) have never sat a driving test.
Its quite common in the UK to use tatical addresses when applying to airlines zoo try using a relatives or mates near liege. I also suspect you might be Flemmish and the HR deptment is French. Which is a whole different level of discrimination that wannabies have to deal with in the UK.
Have you thought about doing a FI rating and working in the UK for a bit?
In the instructors forum there have been a few posts about shortages and people with jobs before they complete the course. £5k and you should earn enough to survive for a year while you apply to the operators in the UK.
There is a very good safety reason for living close to the airport, walking distance is the safest thing. The driving in Belgium is insane the buggers try and get you coming out of side roads and the older generations (over 40 I think it was 1979) have never sat a driving test.
Its quite common in the UK to use tatical addresses when applying to airlines zoo try using a relatives or mates near liege. I also suspect you might be Flemmish and the HR deptment is French. Which is a whole different level of discrimination that wannabies have to deal with in the UK.
Have you thought about doing a FI rating and working in the UK for a bit?
In the instructors forum there have been a few posts about shortages and people with jobs before they complete the course. £5k and you should earn enough to survive for a year while you apply to the operators in the UK.
Join Date: May 2004
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A320 - suggestion for you sir.
Do you have change machines in your country? You know the ones, you put in all your coppers and you get notes and pound coins in return (depending on how many coppers you put in obviously). It's just I went down the supermarket yesterday and put loads of shrapnel in the machine and got about 50 quid out of it. Don't get me wrong, I like your $1 per childish response idea, just thought that maybe if you collect lots of loose change this might be a quicker way to advance your Type Rating fund. You are buying one are you not? Every bugger has one these days. From the smallest acorns and all that.
Regards
Do you have change machines in your country? You know the ones, you put in all your coppers and you get notes and pound coins in return (depending on how many coppers you put in obviously). It's just I went down the supermarket yesterday and put loads of shrapnel in the machine and got about 50 quid out of it. Don't get me wrong, I like your $1 per childish response idea, just thought that maybe if you collect lots of loose change this might be a quicker way to advance your Type Rating fund. You are buying one are you not? Every bugger has one these days. From the smallest acorns and all that.
Regards
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by mad_jock
Have you thought about doing a FI rating and working in the UK for a bit?
In the instructors forum there have been a few posts about shortages and people with jobs before they complete the course. £5k and you should earn enough to survive for a year while you apply to the operators in the UK.
In the instructors forum there have been a few posts about shortages and people with jobs before they complete the course. £5k and you should earn enough to survive for a year while you apply to the operators in the UK.
What' s the best way to get an instructor's job if you are not from the airclub's neighbourhood?
Thanks
winch
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No problem at all winch.
I have met a very broad range of nationalitys workings as instructors, FO's and Captains in the UK.
Forget all the rules for working in mainland europe they really don't work in the UK. We maybe on paper part of the EU but in real life you couldn't get farther from the truth.
I have met a very broad range of nationalitys workings as instructors, FO's and Captains in the UK.
Forget all the rules for working in mainland europe they really don't work in the UK. We maybe on paper part of the EU but in real life you couldn't get farther from the truth.
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do we have to move close of an airport just to get the job?
Rent an appart is not cheap.
I would move if I have the job, but I do not see the point to move just to say I live close of a airport.
it is just one more way to filter applicants, nothing else.
I still need 30'000 answers to pay my type rating
.
Rent an appart is not cheap.
I would move if I have the job, but I do not see the point to move just to say I live close of a airport.
it is just one more way to filter applicants, nothing else.
I still need 30'000 answers to pay my type rating
.
Jet Blast Rat
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But if he looks on Dannyc's link he will find plenty of virtual airlines, so he can get a virtual job there. So I was even more correct than I thought when I commented on A320's loose connetion with reality!
Superced certainly reads like A320, and isn't he talking to himself a lot? I thought he was also spaceman, but he talks to spaceman a lot in French. Oh, and is claiming to be an instructor with 1200 hours and an Airbus type rating. If he was then he's wasted his money - for that sort of cash I could recommend some training that would almost guarantee a job, and it wouldn't be an A320 rating!
Superced certainly reads like A320, and isn't he talking to himself a lot? I thought he was also spaceman, but he talks to spaceman a lot in French. Oh, and is claiming to be an instructor with 1200 hours and an Airbus type rating. If he was then he's wasted his money - for that sort of cash I could recommend some training that would almost guarantee a job, and it wouldn't be an A320 rating!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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There is a very good safety reason for living close to the airport, walking distance is the safest thing. The driving in Belgium is insane the buggers try and get you coming out of side roads and the older generations (over 40 I think it was 1979) have never sat a driving test.
crazy elderly! and they seam to be multiplying by the day...funny thing is that they get cheap insurances because they are such calm and safe drivers!!!
Its quite common in the UK to use tatical addresses when applying to airlines zoo try using a relatives or mates near liege. I also suspect you might be Flemmish and the HR deptment is French. Which is a whole different level of discrimination that wannabies have to deal with in the UK.
Have you thought about doing a FI rating and working in the UK for a bit?
No, all funny things put aside, thanks for the advice - to be honnest, I am just back on track after a few years of studying and working in non airline business environment so for the moment trying all other things first before getting completely desperate (again)...
Is it really so that the UK market is almost without pilots? If I read the forums here it does't seam so??
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UK is not awash with jobs but its pretty healthy just now from my experence.
Certainly alot better than main land europe.
There are jobs though for people who put the work in and are willing to move the earth to get a job.
Leige is a dump but yes even from scotland I could get an address without to much hassel near by. Where there are oil companys an Aberdonian has contacts.
Its very easy to sit at a computer and moan that you can't get a job on a website. The poeple that get off their backsides and do the hard graft you never hear from and they are the ones that get a job. It might be a job that some would turn their noses up at, I can't see A320 wanting to do night mail flights in some old battered frieghter. But its better than being unemployed, the pay might be crap, and some may be a form of legal slavery (being and instructor). But its a job and every hour in your log book counts.
Experenced FO's are evaporating from the Turboprop fleets onto jets. Bonds arn't worth the paper they are written on as the increase in salary's is covered in the first 6 months. At manchester there used to be quite a few pilot qualified dispatchers working. They have all seemed to have disappeared into jobs. Including the sexy blond one who is off to drive a 757 for a first job.
Certainly alot better than main land europe.
There are jobs though for people who put the work in and are willing to move the earth to get a job.
Leige is a dump but yes even from scotland I could get an address without to much hassel near by. Where there are oil companys an Aberdonian has contacts.
Its very easy to sit at a computer and moan that you can't get a job on a website. The poeple that get off their backsides and do the hard graft you never hear from and they are the ones that get a job. It might be a job that some would turn their noses up at, I can't see A320 wanting to do night mail flights in some old battered frieghter. But its better than being unemployed, the pay might be crap, and some may be a form of legal slavery (being and instructor). But its a job and every hour in your log book counts.
Experenced FO's are evaporating from the Turboprop fleets onto jets. Bonds arn't worth the paper they are written on as the increase in salary's is covered in the first 6 months. At manchester there used to be quite a few pilot qualified dispatchers working. They have all seemed to have disappeared into jobs. Including the sexy blond one who is off to drive a 757 for a first job.
My take on the job situation! Yes I am bored
Well I am bored at work as no one will give me a decent job as it obvious I will leave them if even a sniff of a flyig job comes along (little do they know this could be years and years) so here goes a moan…..
Many people seem to say that the pilot employment market has picked up and well yes maybe it has got better, but if it has, it has gone from a total nightmare to just completely crap. It is even difficult to get yourself on a good self sponsored type rating scheme. I just enquired to GECAT and was told they are not taking any more application until late summer at the earliest due to a massive back log, now this is a back log of people willing to pay £20,000 so imagine how many are going for jobs on these rare occasions when a company pays for your type rating.
Having a good training record and good educational back ground etc I though I would have a decent chance of a job but it seems that this industry is all about contacts and cash as opposed to the person. I know I have only been looking 3 months but that is 3 months without even an interview, I mean what other sector would you not even get an interview after 3 of months!
Here are some of my thoughts /experiences with just a few of the companies I have applied to….
Not having the finances to complete an integrated curse I went modular although certainly not by the cheapest method (which I now regret as could have made a type rating at least affordable). So being modular that rules out entry to the like of BA, Thomsonfly, Excel, GB etc although obviously I have applied anyway with the response being we won’t be recruiting low hours pilots this year.... lies of course.
Flybe - no response, although heard they got over 1,000 applications in a week so odds are stacked against. Waiting for the online app to open again (if it does) although I believe they continue to take suggested people from Integrated Schools and also interviewed some recommended by AFT recently.
BA connect - missed their recruitment as wasn't finished training, although similar amount of applications to Flybe. From what I read those who were told in October they had an interview are still waiting for the interview, so I think its safe to say it'll be a while till they are recruiting again.
Logan Air – online form completed, nothing heard back. Even a rejection would be nice.
Air Southwest - no response but even if they did I'm not sure I could relocate, pay off loans and actually afford bread and water! The salary is so low. I mean £16,000 tops is taking the micky.
Easy jet, Thompson Fly Mytravel - all a good prospect if you get into CTC, unfortunately I got the chop at the final stage of selection so they are gone.
Atlantic& Highland – seem to take either their own cadets otr type rated pilots.
Irish cousins
Aer Arran - told they have 1,100 on file and I think you really have to be type rated to have any hope.
Ryan Air – infamous to say the least. When training I thought no way, but suddenly with no sign of a flying job in sight, it is suddenly a very appealing option. But even here it is very tough to get in. They may desperately need Pilots but as usual it is experienced pilots and there are no shortages of people like me, and a lot with £20,000 to burn. Both SAS and CAE have many thousands of applications on file, having chased them both on several occasions with very little success. I know several people who have been successful but this has always been through a good contact, getting their CV to the top of the pile directly at Ryan Air and not through the type rating schools.
City jet – Seems to be a decent opportunity, although I have two rejections to date now going for a third!
Air Contractors – Same as Aer Arran , no type rating no chance and even then it is tough.
India – No go unless you’re a Captain
China – Similar to India really although maybe ops for experienced FO’s, but then why would you go to China if experienced.
So the options
Stay current and hope. Hard to afford any flying that will make a difference to your CV other than just staying current.
Somehow get the money together for a type rating, big risk and certainly cannot afford to buy 100 hrs plus or even 500 I mean were will this stop!
Flight Instructor – just cannot afford the extra debt to then be paid a pittance.
Save up some cash and head to Africa, a totally desperate option, might give it a go!
Basically I’m s******d
Many people seem to say that the pilot employment market has picked up and well yes maybe it has got better, but if it has, it has gone from a total nightmare to just completely crap. It is even difficult to get yourself on a good self sponsored type rating scheme. I just enquired to GECAT and was told they are not taking any more application until late summer at the earliest due to a massive back log, now this is a back log of people willing to pay £20,000 so imagine how many are going for jobs on these rare occasions when a company pays for your type rating.
Having a good training record and good educational back ground etc I though I would have a decent chance of a job but it seems that this industry is all about contacts and cash as opposed to the person. I know I have only been looking 3 months but that is 3 months without even an interview, I mean what other sector would you not even get an interview after 3 of months!
Here are some of my thoughts /experiences with just a few of the companies I have applied to….
Not having the finances to complete an integrated curse I went modular although certainly not by the cheapest method (which I now regret as could have made a type rating at least affordable). So being modular that rules out entry to the like of BA, Thomsonfly, Excel, GB etc although obviously I have applied anyway with the response being we won’t be recruiting low hours pilots this year.... lies of course.
Flybe - no response, although heard they got over 1,000 applications in a week so odds are stacked against. Waiting for the online app to open again (if it does) although I believe they continue to take suggested people from Integrated Schools and also interviewed some recommended by AFT recently.
BA connect - missed their recruitment as wasn't finished training, although similar amount of applications to Flybe. From what I read those who were told in October they had an interview are still waiting for the interview, so I think its safe to say it'll be a while till they are recruiting again.
Logan Air – online form completed, nothing heard back. Even a rejection would be nice.
Air Southwest - no response but even if they did I'm not sure I could relocate, pay off loans and actually afford bread and water! The salary is so low. I mean £16,000 tops is taking the micky.
Easy jet, Thompson Fly Mytravel - all a good prospect if you get into CTC, unfortunately I got the chop at the final stage of selection so they are gone.
Atlantic& Highland – seem to take either their own cadets otr type rated pilots.
Irish cousins
Aer Arran - told they have 1,100 on file and I think you really have to be type rated to have any hope.
Ryan Air – infamous to say the least. When training I thought no way, but suddenly with no sign of a flying job in sight, it is suddenly a very appealing option. But even here it is very tough to get in. They may desperately need Pilots but as usual it is experienced pilots and there are no shortages of people like me, and a lot with £20,000 to burn. Both SAS and CAE have many thousands of applications on file, having chased them both on several occasions with very little success. I know several people who have been successful but this has always been through a good contact, getting their CV to the top of the pile directly at Ryan Air and not through the type rating schools.
City jet – Seems to be a decent opportunity, although I have two rejections to date now going for a third!
Air Contractors – Same as Aer Arran , no type rating no chance and even then it is tough.
India – No go unless you’re a Captain
China – Similar to India really although maybe ops for experienced FO’s, but then why would you go to China if experienced.
So the options
Stay current and hope. Hard to afford any flying that will make a difference to your CV other than just staying current.
Somehow get the money together for a type rating, big risk and certainly cannot afford to buy 100 hrs plus or even 500 I mean were will this stop!
Flight Instructor – just cannot afford the extra debt to then be paid a pittance.
Save up some cash and head to Africa, a totally desperate option, might give it a go!
Basically I’m s******d
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Ref CTC:
What does that say about self-selection?
Go into non-flying jobs with a decent attitude and don't even mention that you will be leaving to persue a career as a pilot if offered a job in the flightdeck. They don't know the cost, so simply say that you had a sabbatical as it is something that you always wanted to do; now you fly at weekends only.
Talk about giving the wrong impression - of course you won't get anywhere otherwise.
Unfortunately I got the chop at the final stage of selection
Go into non-flying jobs with a decent attitude and don't even mention that you will be leaving to persue a career as a pilot if offered a job in the flightdeck. They don't know the cost, so simply say that you had a sabbatical as it is something that you always wanted to do; now you fly at weekends only.
Talk about giving the wrong impression - of course you won't get anywhere otherwise.
Gizajob
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I'd give up if I were you. No money for a type rating, don't want to instruct because the money is cr*p, got a load of rejections from the majors, assuming they bothered to reply...
Alternatively, the glass could be half full. Set your sights lower - instruct for a while, keeping current, earning a little, getting some of those contacts if you do it right. Knock on doors, write more letters to small survey companies or gliding sites that might need pilots with no hours - in short, keep on trucking or you will fall by the wayside.
Me? - been looking for 18 months. Also got binned by CTC, also got a load of PFOs. Am I down? No siree. I'm 3 hours from the end of an FI course and I will be taking a 60%+ pay cut to instruct full time if I can find a job thereafter. I will be flying and building my experience. Might get a job on something bigger and faster eventually or I might not. Right now, not bothered because I will be flying and that's what I want to do.
Chin up mate. Yes this is a difficult industry to get on in, but it's impossible without a positive attitude...
Alternatively, the glass could be half full. Set your sights lower - instruct for a while, keeping current, earning a little, getting some of those contacts if you do it right. Knock on doors, write more letters to small survey companies or gliding sites that might need pilots with no hours - in short, keep on trucking or you will fall by the wayside.
Me? - been looking for 18 months. Also got binned by CTC, also got a load of PFOs. Am I down? No siree. I'm 3 hours from the end of an FI course and I will be taking a 60%+ pay cut to instruct full time if I can find a job thereafter. I will be flying and building my experience. Might get a job on something bigger and faster eventually or I might not. Right now, not bothered because I will be flying and that's what I want to do.
Chin up mate. Yes this is a difficult industry to get on in, but it's impossible without a positive attitude...
Jet Blast Rat
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lies of course.
Don't get so dispondant about "1000 Cvs". Remember that in all cases they are the same 1000 CVs, which have also been sent to another dozen large compaies and some of the hundreds of employers of pilots in the country. How many of these have you applied to? How many have you approached looking for non-flying jobs, with a view to making those vital contacts? Have you considered becoming an instructor? Lots I know are getting into good jobs.