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Criminal Conviction A Problem?

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Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Old 2nd Sep 2005, 10:08
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If a conviction is 'spent' under the terms of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, you do not need to disclose it to a potential employer (with a very few exceptions that do not include airlines). If the conviction is not 'spent', you will need to disclose it, but driving offences are very unlikely to compromise your chances of getting a flying job. They will have absolutely no effect on your airside pass application.

If you were applying for a job as a bus driver or similar, it would be different. But you aren't.

Scroggs
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Old 5th Sep 2005, 11:59
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Unaccompanied Minors - Captain?

Guess it depends on Company Policy

Basic - 5 year disclosure
Standard - All convictions
Enhanced - as above plus any in the court system

If you are working with children and vulnerable adults
you are often required now to have an 'enhanced' check

Unaccompanied minors are in your charge as a captain of an aircraft so it may be that the Enhanced check is performed by some airlines....?
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Old 5th Sep 2005, 18:01
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Captains are responsible for the overall safety of all occupants of an aircraft, but they are not responsible for the care of unaccompanied minors. That is a cabin crew function, and may mean that cabin crew require a higher level of screening (though I've heard nothing from our cabin crew to suggest that is the case).

As a pilot, you are behind a locked door for the flight and have nothing directly to do with any passenger, let alone unaccompanied minors. I would be extremely surprised if any airline required more than the basic disclosure. Virgin Atlantic certainly does not.

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Old 5th Jan 2006, 11:36
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Question Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Hi All,

Was just wondering if someone could hep me out and tell me if i can get a comercial pilot's (cpl or maybe atpl in due-course) job as i have a criminal conviction.

I'm now 22 and i recieved the conviction at either 15 or 16, it is for " Reckless Arson ". Althoug it was irresponsible- it was not delibrite.

I have heard of knowledgable sources that this conviction is now spent and not to worry about it but i wonder whether the airline industry has the power to scrutinise your criminal history, current or spent.

Thanks,

Lew
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 11:59
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Depends on your sentance. As long as you was not sent to prison for more than 2.5 years you should have no worries!

http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/rehabact.htm

This should give you your answer.

Good luck.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 12:51
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Not getting an airport pass sounds quite harsh for something i did accidently when i was still at school.

My sentence was a fine (600), a supervisional order (kinda like probation but for younger people, meant to last 12 months but only saw the bloke twice in the first week) and obviously a criminal conviction.

I've also noticed that i may not even be able to go to america where i planned on doing my training because of the record?

thanks again
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 13:23
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Notwithstanding I'm certainly not an expert on such issues, I could imagine getting a US visa for flight training more problematic as I seem to remember they specifically state that the US doesn't recognise spent convictions. I would enquire with the US embassy before I committed to anything if I were you.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 15:17
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

What you need to look at is the 'Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974'. It sounds like a heavy volume, but is in fact a leaflet outlining the period of time a conviction is unspent. If the conviction is spent, it is then as though [I]it never happened.[I] Ypu do not have to mention spent convictions on application forms etc unless it is stated clearly that the act does not apply; i.e, applications to join police force etc. With regard to airport passes, criminal records are checked, but this information is between the criminal records office and the security service concerned, not the airline. Also, as you were quite young, the unspent period is reasonably short compared to similar offences committed at a later age. Check it out and good luck with the flying.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 17:41
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Just send off to Disclosure Scotland and pay a small fee to see what they have listed on you.

https://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk.../BDO_Instr.htm
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 18:25
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Hi all,

By getting in contact with knowledgeble sources, i have been told that as long as my conviction is spent, i.e i have a Basic Disclosure with nothing on it, my record is clear as such. I have been told that i don't have to state spent convictions when applying for an american visa, even if i'm asked. I have also been assured that if i ever applied to be a comercial pilot with any company i would not have to state the spent conviction either. I can't see gettin a air pass being any different?
Apperently the only time you are vetted and your past history can be seen is if i was applying for a job with children or the disabled (which even then i don't see reckless aarson as a teenager being a problem, i maybe wrong) and if i was applying for the police force (oh well).

Has anyone got any FACTUAL information that a spent conviction would be a problem in comercial aviation?

Lew

P.S Thanks to all of you who have so far replied, much apreciated....
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 19:48
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Originally Posted by stansdead
lewis
you will have to disclose any convictions spent or otherwise to a future employer on an application, and your arson will put your application strainght iin the bin........
Harsh but true.
This is complete, and dangerous, rubbish. Your liability for disclosing your criminal record is governed by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. Under the provisions of that act, most convictions become spent after a period of time, the length of which is determined by any sentence which was handed down at the time. As for declaring spent convictions, Law On The Web says this:

Benefits Of The Act Applying For Jobs

Applicants with a criminal record who are asked on an application form or at an interview whether they have any previous convictions can answer 'no' if the convictions are spent and the job applied for is not excepted from the Act. Under the terms of the Act, a spent conviction shall not be proper grounds for not employing - or for sacking - someone. (If on the other hand, job applicants do not disclose unspent convictions, if asked to do so, they may be found out, dismissed on the grounds of having deceived the employer - and possibly prosecuted.)

The Act does not provide any means of enforcing a person's right not to be refused employment (or entry into a profession) on the grounds of a spent conviction. If, however, an employee can prove that they have been dismissed for a spent conviction and they have been in employment a year or more, they may be able to claim unfair dismissal under employment legislation.
Some occupations are excepted from the provisions of the act, and so spent convictions must be declared when asked to do so. Airline pilot is not one of those occupations.

Airside passes are issued after a security check is carried out by Disclosure Scotland. Convictions spent under the RO Act 1974 are specifically excluded from disclosure, and will not disqualify you from holding an airside pass. See the Disclosure Scotland website for more information.

To determine whether your conviction is spent, you need to dredge up the sentence imposed on you when you were convicted and check it against the chart on the Law on the Web site linked to earlier. If you're still unsure, a solicitor specialising in criminal law will help you sort it out.

It is extremely unlikely that a single youth conviction will disqualify you from employment in the airlines. Pay no attention to the claptrap spouted by some here.

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Old 5th Jan 2006, 19:59
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Scroggs,

Thanks for that post, has helped me see things more clearly

Lew
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 20:37
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

LewisS,

Best advice, come clean if asked about it. If someone happens to apply for a CRO check then your conviction will show up, spent or otherwise. If you havent declared it then your leaving yourself wide open for bother. Always best to be open about these things. I know 2 police officers who were accepted into the Police, one with a drink drive conviction, the other with an assault conviction. Both were grilled about it during their interview's but it gave them the opportunity to explain the circumstances. Both put their hands up and said " I was young, immature, foolish, and deeply regret what i did, no excuses". The panel appreciated their honesty and both were recruited to the ranks!

Whilst not every employer apply's for a CRO check, some do, dont get caught out! You'll shoot yourself in your own foot im afraid.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 20:44
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

The police is an excepted occupation where you must declare convictions, spent or otherwise. You are not required to for an airline, and you cannot be penalised for not declaring spent convictions. If you do not wish to declare your conviction, you need not do so if it is spent. You, of course, are at liberty to do so if you wish to. I would advise against it.

Lewis, do not be ill advised by people who, with the best of intentions, do not understand the law. If you are in any doubt, consult an employment lawyer.

Scroggs
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 22:37
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Scroggs,

Sorry but you need to expand. Lewiss falls in to a level 1 check, a "basic disclosure". However, if the airline happens to be registered with the Criminal Records Bureau in terms of the ROA Act then they are perfectly entitled to vett him to level 2 or 3 standard under sub category code 55, "for the purposes of safeguarding national security". It is an exemption, exactly as the Police. It all depends on whether the airline is registered with the CRB or not. In todays current climate post 9/11 etc then theres probably a good chance. I suspect however most airlines only ask for a level 1 "basic disclosure". So to clarify, if Lewiss is asked to provide a level 1 certificate then he doesnt need to declare his spent conviction. If however the airline are entitled to vett further then my advice still stands as before, declare it.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 22:57
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Having just read the Act/Exemptions etc again i think it needs clarification, its a bit vague regarding "national security". I would like to find out 'who' is entitled to register with the Criminal Records Bureau, enabling them to apply for level 2/3 checks etc. Perhaps not airlines but the CAA would certainly have grounds ffor it.Unfortunately, legislation isnt the easiest of things to interprate, and this ones a stinker!! I have someone I can ask who might be able to clarify, i'll post again if he can tell me......
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 23:12
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Im now stumped, ive read it front to back and frack to bunt! Take Scroggs advice and speak to an employment lawyer!
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 08:30
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

I have my own Disclosure Scotland CRC return in my possession (the bit that tells me what was disclosed to the airline), and it would appear to me to be a Level 1 check. Airlines are not in the business of National Security; they - or rather their customers - are merely subject to an abnormal amount of attention from security organisations. Airline employees, with few exceptions, are likely only to be checked to Level 1. Customs, Police, and other national organisations directly involved in security may have higher level checks, as, for different reasons, may those who look after children. Even the Services make it very clear that any declaration of past convictions is subject to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

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Old 6th Jan 2006, 08:56
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

Scroggs,

Agreed, a level 1 check(basic disclosure) is all that LewisS would appear be subject to, no problems for him then, as long as his conviction is spent(confirm that one for yourself LewisS). Unless things change then that appears to be the highest level of vetting for pilots.
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 09:30
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Re: Criminal Conviction A Problem?

LewisS: Listen to Scroggs, erchie and Tom24.

To obtain an airside pass (BAA) you need to apply for a basic disclosure (known as Disclosure Scotland). I do not know about MAN as they are independently owned but I am sure they operate similar procedures to BAA airports. Under the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act your conviction is spent (in my opinion), therefore, it will not show up on your disclosure report.. trust me!!

It is of course the airports final decision as to whether they will grant you an airside pass.. a copy of the disclosure goes to the airline so theoretically you could have an unspent conviction, the airport operator may grant you an airside pass but the airline may see your conviction and wish not to employ you, I am sure this would go into legal complications. Either way this does not apply to you so don't worry.

Ignore Stansdead, he is probably an ex-cop
Do not come clean about it, it is an honourable thing to do but there are too many in this world and it will count against you. The old bill always say oh come clean about.. yeah alright mate!!

There is no problem getting a CPL/ATPL with a spent or unspent conviction.. just the airside pass maybe tricky if a conviction is unspent. You only need a full disclosure if you work with children, applying to the police force or the armed forces. Even then it is not the end of the world. I have heard the armed forces are in particular understanding (honesty does pay with them.. about the only people it does pay with).

Your only issue may be getting into the states.. passports are bi....? I am too stupid to remember the word but they can be read by US immigration on entry. I do not know how it works . As you would be going through as crew I would risk keeping your mouth shut.. you owe them nothing. Outrageous that a country with so many nutters won't allow a UK citizen in with a minor offence (acceptance a possibility after a thorough grilling).. maybe there is just to many psychos in there already

Good luck, don't let it stop you

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