Muslim Wannabe
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Muslim Wannabe
Hi,
i am a wannabe who has wanted to become a pilot for as long as i can remember and am considering beginning flight training with one of the flying training schools i.e. Cabair, Oxford, Jerez etc. The one thing that has stopped me so far from applying has been whether as a Muslim i will ever be able to get a job in the UK or Europe for that matter.
I like the very vast majority of Muslims in this country deplore the fact that our religion is being used to justify acts of senseless violence against innocent people however is this likely to make any difference to any potential employers?
My question therefore is that as a muslim would i be wasting my time, money and effort beginning flying training in this country?
Thanks for your help.
i am a wannabe who has wanted to become a pilot for as long as i can remember and am considering beginning flight training with one of the flying training schools i.e. Cabair, Oxford, Jerez etc. The one thing that has stopped me so far from applying has been whether as a Muslim i will ever be able to get a job in the UK or Europe for that matter.
I like the very vast majority of Muslims in this country deplore the fact that our religion is being used to justify acts of senseless violence against innocent people however is this likely to make any difference to any potential employers?
My question therefore is that as a muslim would i be wasting my time, money and effort beginning flying training in this country?
Thanks for your help.
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patthecat,
The airline industry and those who participate in it work to bridge the gap between the many peoples of the world. Airlines do more to bring the different races and religions closer together than any other industry. Just think about this long and hard. If you are Asian, I would probably say that this attitude you have has been bestowed upon you by others (i.e The original generation kind) Am I correct?
There are many British born Muslim pilots flying for British Airlines.
The airline industry and those who participate in it work to bridge the gap between the many peoples of the world. Airlines do more to bring the different races and religions closer together than any other industry. Just think about this long and hard. If you are Asian, I would probably say that this attitude you have has been bestowed upon you by others (i.e The original generation kind) Am I correct?
There are many British born Muslim pilots flying for British Airlines.
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I wonder why you ask that.
Is it because you really think that in the past some Muslim did something wrong or because you think you are different from the rest of the world?
I believe in God but not for this i think this can be a problem for me to be a Pilot. I know that in the name of Jesus they Killed More people that 9/11 but i don't think Christians today are sorry for that, do you know why? because everyone knows that what they were doing was completely wrong and out of Christianity.
I have seen people believing in a religion and say i am that religion, well let me say ,you are different!
It's like if i say i am gay, well be gay but don't go on the road and show that you are gay. If you believe you are normal ,well have you seen normal people going on a strike claiming that they are normal?
Religion can be something very distinguishing.
I know this can be hard on you but i am telling you, unfortunally there are people that judge out there.
I am not judging you, it's you making the difference.
If i was you i wouldn’t say too much about my background, i can tell from a personal experience that i was at an interview for a Md-80 and a guy made a comment about being Muslim..(i am not telling you what the comment was)
Your religion is something nobody has to know and since it's a main religion of the eastern world it's probably better not to mention it if you want to work in the west part.
Good luck
Is it because you really think that in the past some Muslim did something wrong or because you think you are different from the rest of the world?
I believe in God but not for this i think this can be a problem for me to be a Pilot. I know that in the name of Jesus they Killed More people that 9/11 but i don't think Christians today are sorry for that, do you know why? because everyone knows that what they were doing was completely wrong and out of Christianity.
I have seen people believing in a religion and say i am that religion, well let me say ,you are different!
It's like if i say i am gay, well be gay but don't go on the road and show that you are gay. If you believe you are normal ,well have you seen normal people going on a strike claiming that they are normal?
Religion can be something very distinguishing.
I know this can be hard on you but i am telling you, unfortunally there are people that judge out there.
I am not judging you, it's you making the difference.
If i was you i wouldn’t say too much about my background, i can tell from a personal experience that i was at an interview for a Md-80 and a guy made a comment about being Muslim..(i am not telling you what the comment was)
Your religion is something nobody has to know and since it's a main religion of the eastern world it's probably better not to mention it if you want to work in the west part.
Good luck
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Why "idiot"? I don't think patthecat deserved this.. After all, it's a legitimate question.. Anyway, I don't think it will be a great problem!
And.. if live your religion fairly, i.e. not labelling the others like "idiots", that is nothing to hide or feel shame about.
Cheers!
And.. if live your religion fairly, i.e. not labelling the others like "idiots", that is nothing to hide or feel shame about.
Cheers!
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Thanks for all the replies guys (even the one who called me an idiot!! I am from the UK by the way)
It was a difficult question for me to ask but one i needed to ask considering how much money i am about to invest trying to achieve my dream.
Have a great new year...
It was a difficult question for me to ask but one i needed to ask considering how much money i am about to invest trying to achieve my dream.
Have a great new year...
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Unlike many, many countries in this world, it is illegal in UK to discriminate by race, religion, sexuality or culture in choosing people for employment. Anyone who feels that they have been discriminated against and has evidence to back their case has recourse to the law for redress of their grievances. You can't eliminate discrimination entirely, but it is pretty rare in aviation. When you do finally join this profession, you will find Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Atheists, and who knows how many other creeds, all working together quite happily with no conflict or rancour. What counts is your skill and your work ethic - and your humour!
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I think that we safely say that throughout the "First World", discrimination on grounds of religion, race, creed, colour, sexual preference etc. is now illegal. However certain physical handicaps will preclude you from getting a job as you won't be able to get a licence. But you have to accept that some airlines prefer you to be able to speak the local lingo to a reasonable conversation level, even if just to be able to be able to enjoy their company socalising down route. As for being a Muslim, it's not an issue. People will more interested in you as a person. Best of luck.
Piltdown.
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
It's actually a very legitimate question if you were thinking of other regions in the world. The Chinese airlines will point blang refuse to take Muslims (they say security concerns...) or Africans (blacks) for that matter. They're quite open about their racism yet because they're Chinese they seem to getaway with it. Imagine Western airlines stating that???
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
Patthecat,
Don't be worried. I have worked for two different airlines in the UK, not a lot admittedly, but I have not found in either a bias against muslims in terms of recruitment. In fact I found a positive attitude based on ability and qualities only. I have several current and previous muslim colleagues and I can honestly say we don't regard each other as muslim or christian, just good work mates.
Go for it - don't worry,
Sphinx
Don't be worried. I have worked for two different airlines in the UK, not a lot admittedly, but I have not found in either a bias against muslims in terms of recruitment. In fact I found a positive attitude based on ability and qualities only. I have several current and previous muslim colleagues and I can honestly say we don't regard each other as muslim or christian, just good work mates.
Go for it - don't worry,
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
Don't worry about finding it hard to get a job because you are muslim. The way the UK is today you would probably be more likely to get a job than a similarly qualified white british christian because the country has gone mad. I was looking to join a fire service before I started flying, at one station they were only taking applications from ethnic minorities
A mate of mine teaches first aid and he has to use ethnic minority dummys to demonstrate stuff on You will probably not find it easy to get a job though as there are not many for newly qualified pilots of any race or religion. Best thing is do a lot of reading and research before spending the criminaly insane amount of money at a place like oxford. If you get the license and are a good pilot, nice guy etc you will get a job in the end. That will probably provoke the frozenATPL with 737type rating and 250hr crowd into a frenzy as they have been writing to airlines for years and haven't even had a sniff of a job. Idiots.
I know I cannot spell but who cares. Gives the people who like to correct it something to do.
A mate of mine teaches first aid and he has to use ethnic minority dummys to demonstrate stuff on You will probably not find it easy to get a job though as there are not many for newly qualified pilots of any race or religion. Best thing is do a lot of reading and research before spending the criminaly insane amount of money at a place like oxford. If you get the license and are a good pilot, nice guy etc you will get a job in the end. That will probably provoke the frozenATPL with 737type rating and 250hr crowd into a frenzy as they have been writing to airlines for years and haven't even had a sniff of a job. Idiots. I know I cannot spell but who cares. Gives the people who like to correct it something to do.
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
Hi Patthecat
I am an asian Muslim Pilot flying commercially in UK and being British, which I am proud to be, we all know that there are evils in this world and always been, who causes so much trouble in the name of religion, so be positive in your mind and soul and think positive.
We all know there are lots of opportunities coming up and soon there will be a big demand for Pilots, same time competition is growing too amongs candidates chasing for jobs.
Keep your chin up and don't be frustrated your time will come when you will proudly say, I work in the airline industry as a Pilot.
Good luck
Syed
I am an asian Muslim Pilot flying commercially in UK and being British, which I am proud to be, we all know that there are evils in this world and always been, who causes so much trouble in the name of religion, so be positive in your mind and soul and think positive.
We all know there are lots of opportunities coming up and soon there will be a big demand for Pilots, same time competition is growing too amongs candidates chasing for jobs.
Keep your chin up and don't be frustrated your time will come when you will proudly say, I work in the airline industry as a Pilot.
Good luck
Syed
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
I hope you are genuine, which I believe you are, but you never know to what lengths the media will go to extract a response out of some people.
I know of a few British born muslims working with major scheduled UK airlines.. in fact I don't know of any that are not employed but given the numbers concerned I don't think this should be used as concrete evidence.
Scoob makes a valid point which certainly holds a degree of truth with respect to UK major carriers who are openly 'pressurised' by the present government to employ a cross section of the community.. whatever that should mean. Of course, this (positive discrimination) leads to unfair stereotypes where the majority will presume the minority have gained that particular job without merit, which is clearly not always the case (an airline may choose to employ a member of a minority group, be it race, religion, gender etc, simply because they are good enough.. and in the majority of cases I believe that is true).
You will have no problem with airlines in this country (China maybe.. as somebody quoted, or indeed others nations, but NOT the UK). It is illegal in this country to preclude anyone of a particular race or religion to apply to any position or post (only gender and disability divisions apply to some jobs for obvious and practical reasons). The only exception to the point I just made, to my knowledge, is that a Catholic may not marry into the direct line of the Throne.. so as a Muslim count yourself fortunate that no such barriers exist towards your faith, as should be the case with all faiths.
There are still a minority group of Asians in UK based aviation, but it is growing. Most of these I have met are not Muslim, but this should not deter you from joining. As with all professions you will have a few individuals who will have opinions about you in respect to your faith, but they are fortunately few and far between. Most of the Muslims I know are outside aviation, and they are 'westernised' if such a term can be used. I will go to the pub with them, eat out with them, have a laugh etc etc, although they would obviously pass on the pint of stella with a side of bacon sarnies
You seem like a decent enough individual.. possibly having liberal acceptance for contemporary UK culture. As long as you don't have a problem with drunken nights of outrageous debaulchery and sexual promiscuity (it does go on.. off duty I am glad to say!), then there shouldn't be a problem. Of course no individual has to participate and that is my point.. as long as you are social, go out for a drink with the Skipper and have a laugh even if your choice is to drink coke etc, people will have no problem.
Don't hold back.. if you want to fly, do it, plenty have done it before you with no problems (I have seen it first hand at UK major FTOs such as Cabair/Oxford etc). Good luck
747 Downwind
I know of a few British born muslims working with major scheduled UK airlines.. in fact I don't know of any that are not employed but given the numbers concerned I don't think this should be used as concrete evidence.
Scoob makes a valid point which certainly holds a degree of truth with respect to UK major carriers who are openly 'pressurised' by the present government to employ a cross section of the community.. whatever that should mean. Of course, this (positive discrimination) leads to unfair stereotypes where the majority will presume the minority have gained that particular job without merit, which is clearly not always the case (an airline may choose to employ a member of a minority group, be it race, religion, gender etc, simply because they are good enough.. and in the majority of cases I believe that is true).
You will have no problem with airlines in this country (China maybe.. as somebody quoted, or indeed others nations, but NOT the UK). It is illegal in this country to preclude anyone of a particular race or religion to apply to any position or post (only gender and disability divisions apply to some jobs for obvious and practical reasons). The only exception to the point I just made, to my knowledge, is that a Catholic may not marry into the direct line of the Throne.. so as a Muslim count yourself fortunate that no such barriers exist towards your faith, as should be the case with all faiths.
There are still a minority group of Asians in UK based aviation, but it is growing. Most of these I have met are not Muslim, but this should not deter you from joining. As with all professions you will have a few individuals who will have opinions about you in respect to your faith, but they are fortunately few and far between. Most of the Muslims I know are outside aviation, and they are 'westernised' if such a term can be used. I will go to the pub with them, eat out with them, have a laugh etc etc, although they would obviously pass on the pint of stella with a side of bacon sarnies
You seem like a decent enough individual.. possibly having liberal acceptance for contemporary UK culture. As long as you don't have a problem with drunken nights of outrageous debaulchery and sexual promiscuity (it does go on.. off duty I am glad to say!), then there shouldn't be a problem. Of course no individual has to participate and that is my point.. as long as you are social, go out for a drink with the Skipper and have a laugh even if your choice is to drink coke etc, people will have no problem.
Don't hold back.. if you want to fly, do it, plenty have done it before you with no problems (I have seen it first hand at UK major FTOs such as Cabair/Oxford etc). Good luck
747 Downwind
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
I'm not Muslim and so do not speak from experience. However, common sense would indicate that letting people know you are muslim could reduce your chances of successfully becoming a pilot. However, the same can be said of being from a poor working class background - something very difficult to hide. My advice is to give it a go and don't advertise your religion.
Yes, discrimination is illegal, just like smoking weed... I think you see my point!
Yes, discrimination is illegal, just like smoking weed... I think you see my point!
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
I suppose you have to use common sense here, if you are so proud of your religion and have to tell everyone about it and overtly attempt to be different from everyone else you might have a problem,i have ethnic minority friends and they are are friends based on the fact they have nice personalities some are chinese and like to get on with everyone, to help themselves they even give themselves an english name.George,William,Ken etc,most people just get on with life and dont inflict their beliefs on everyone else,anyway if you was a muslim of pakistani decent you could always say you was a christian catholic and brought up in Italy.......
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
imac,
Are you saying Muslims should go out of their way to lie about their religion just to be accepted by otherwise ignorant/racist people responsible for selection/recruitment? I hope I'm not misunderstanding you!
Are you saying Muslims should go out of their way to lie about their religion just to be accepted by otherwise ignorant/racist people responsible for selection/recruitment? I hope I'm not misunderstanding you!
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Re: Muslim Wannabe
No i was just making a point im sure you have fired a c.v off in the past and chose to leave certain pieces of information out that might adversly affect the chances of you gaining a position,the bit about pretending to be italian was something my indian mate used to think he could pull off at school he though it would improve his chances of procreation... im sure if Muslim wannabee was applying to PIA his background would be an advantage, a case of different strokes for different folks i suppose...
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I think that anyone whom comes across as being overtly religious, or indeed not rounded and having a lot to talk about, puts any employer off, since rounded individuals can talk about anything, get on in teams and have a broad world view.
If you come across as someone whom people are prepared to sit next to for a long duty day, then you should be fine be you black, white, yellow, Muslim, Catholic.
If you come across as someone whom people are prepared to sit next to for a long duty day, then you should be fine be you black, white, yellow, Muslim, Catholic.