Sick of it!!!!!!!!
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Hello Flintstone,
Your right and I agree, I dont need to even consider it for a moment. I remeber the day a chap who started working for free, his excuse, " he needed the experiance " the owner couldnt believe his luck.
What owner wouldnt give there right arm for a work force working for free ?
What is sad this individual is a civil servant and plenty of days off per month others in the company needed what pay they recieved to help pay the bills,it was there only source of income.
I think this has erroded away the professionalism in this industry and the dog eat dog mentallity has only accelerated the problem. Paying for a type rating is one thing but working for free AND paying for line training ?
I think it is an employers maket at the moment, and Yes dont join Balpa try ppjn.com and google folks !
Flintstone, is it me? am I seeing this the wrong way? perhaps we need to rise to the challenge ?
Answers on the back of a giant Wonker bar please !
Mr W
It all got worse the day someone said "I'll pay for my type rating". Not sure if that was before or after the bastard who offered to work for nothing.
What owner wouldnt give there right arm for a work force working for free ?
What is sad this individual is a civil servant and plenty of days off per month others in the company needed what pay they recieved to help pay the bills,it was there only source of income.
I think this has erroded away the professionalism in this industry and the dog eat dog mentallity has only accelerated the problem. Paying for a type rating is one thing but working for free AND paying for line training ?
I think it is an employers maket at the moment, and Yes dont join Balpa try ppjn.com and google folks !
Flintstone, is it me? am I seeing this the wrong way? perhaps we need to rise to the challenge ?
Answers on the back of a giant Wonker bar please !
Mr W
Sometimes I think that some of the respondents to these threads have a very 'rosy' impression of what the lifestyle of an airline pilot actually consists of these days. Whilst I admire the dedication of all of you I do think that you should explore your contacts for a real understanding of the profession - not trying to be a pain but is it really what you want ?
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Agree!!
If anyone is doing this for the following reasons;
1. Meet women
2. Expect a glam lifestyle
3. Get well paid
4. Have an unstressful life
5. Have a respected job
Then, you are in the wrong industry! You need to be a Professional Footballer or Peter Stringfellow!
If anyone is doing this for the following reasons;
1. Meet women
2. Expect a glam lifestyle
3. Get well paid
4. Have an unstressful life
5. Have a respected job
Then, you are in the wrong industry! You need to be a Professional Footballer or Peter Stringfellow!
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Mr Blue Eyes,
Just to cheer you up...
I have the basic fATPL (CPL/IR) which
1. put me in an environment where I met my G/f who flies commercially.
2. who most certainly has a glam lifestyle (well at least the trips that I have accompanied her on.)
3. who gets very well paid.
4. who does have stress (mainly time zone changes) but I would not say stressfull as you intended it to mean.
5. and who is truly respected by all who meet her and what she does. The questions and fascination directed at her by joe public never ceases to amaze me.
What I'm trying to say is that flying can still be all of the above (well, and is!)
Try not to get too down about certain 'Daily Mail' pages of the Wanabee forum (depressing, doom mongering and sensational). This place can have a habit of diluting why we all got into this game in the first place. Keep sight of the finish line.
Personally, I'm following the FI route as I like teaching, I like Bug smashers and I'm flying
Just to cheer you up...
If anyone is doing this for the following reasons;
1. Meet women
2. Expect a glam lifestyle
3. Get well paid
4. Have an unstressful life
5. Have a respected job
1. Meet women
2. Expect a glam lifestyle
3. Get well paid
4. Have an unstressful life
5. Have a respected job
1. put me in an environment where I met my G/f who flies commercially.
2. who most certainly has a glam lifestyle (well at least the trips that I have accompanied her on.)
3. who gets very well paid.
4. who does have stress (mainly time zone changes) but I would not say stressfull as you intended it to mean.
5. and who is truly respected by all who meet her and what she does. The questions and fascination directed at her by joe public never ceases to amaze me.
What I'm trying to say is that flying can still be all of the above (well, and is!)
Try not to get too down about certain 'Daily Mail' pages of the Wanabee forum (depressing, doom mongering and sensational). This place can have a habit of diluting why we all got into this game in the first place. Keep sight of the finish line.
Personally, I'm following the FI route as I like teaching, I like Bug smashers and I'm flying
Last edited by Craggenmore; 25th Sep 2005 at 12:38.
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prob30
Who says it has to be an airline? I didn't. As an old, bold pilot once told me the most dangerous thing in aviation is an untested assumption. I was thinking further down the scale where people will fly for free to gain hours. Wonka has summarised that nicely so I won't repeat it.
Some airlines do make you pay for your rating, Ryaniar for example. Hell, they'd even have you pay for the differences course because they bought new aircraft.
Which airlines ask you to work for nothing?
Some airlines do make you pay for your rating, Ryaniar for example. Hell, they'd even have you pay for the differences course because they bought new aircraft.
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Harden up you sad gits. Every flying school in Britain is screaming out for instructors. Yes it's poorly paid, poorly respected work in poxy single engine aircraft. Yes just about every single commercial pilot on earth in every country on earth except for two or three European ones, has had to do exactly that (or glider towing or para dropping or sh!tty night freight Aztec runs or whatever) in order to get their first 1000 - 2000 hours to actually make themselves attractive to the airlines.
Seriously. As sure as night follows day, if you go instructing, persevere with it, get those hours in the logbook and don't have the social grace of a baboon, you WILL get that airline job eventually.
That's not even the half of it, how many of you have looked into buggering off to Africa to get some bush flying time for example? And when I say 'looked into it' I don't mean read a few posts of people bitching about it on PPRUNE or even posted a couple of CVs to random addresses in Africa, I mean actually gone out there, slept in a tent or ****ty backpackers hostel for 3 months, kissed ass and swept hangar floors and bought pints for chief pilots and waited for a job to come up? Dozens of Kiwis, Aussies, South Africans, Canadians, Americans and even the occasional enterprising European person do that each year, not just in Africa but in places like New Guinea, South America, the Carribbean, Aussie northern territory etc. The ones who actually show a bit of commitment and aren't socially inept freaks, not many of them come away empty handed. Not many of them post on here either because they're too busy having a great old time and logging every hour that God sends for a year or two before coming home with a couple thousand hours and getting a proper job.
I filled in a space in my own logbook by going microlight instructing for a while when nothing else was happening, didn't know sweet F.A. about microlights but had the CPL licence and was willing to buy a rating and get into it (and when I say 'buy a rating' on microlights I am referring to something that took about an hour-and-a-half to convert onto one sunny afternoon, at the princely sum of around £30 per hour). I only got about 50 or 80 hours on the things but it kept me current until the next money paying position came along.
Last time I was out in the Caribbean in the Turks and Caicos Islands I met a 200 hour bloke who'd actually gone out there to hang around and look for a job and found one bloody quickly, doing para dropping, tax free at $US30 in the hand per flight, half a dozen flights a day means he's actually earning more than a lot of airline pilots, he's got no intention of coming back home to the UK and flogging around in a turboprop any time soon!
The point is they got out there and did something about it as opposed to sat around and blamed others for all their problems. There are LOADS of jobs out there if you have the commitment and want to make the effort to go and find them. If you can't make that effort then I don't feel sorry for you types who spend all day sitting around and blaming BALPA, and experienced airline pilots who don't look out for the wannabes, and sort out jobs for their own kids, and rich gits who can afford integrated courses and type ratings, and Johnny foreigners stealing English jobs, and generally blaming everyone under the sun except themselves for their own unemployment.
Get off your arses, think outside the square of the great flock of wannabe sheep, who think that sitting at home getting uncurrent and firing off cvs to the same 30 or 40 UK jet and turboprop operators is going to produce results, because it's NOT. It IS a lottery and it's a lottery that's cruelly stacked against you IF that's all the initiative you are prepared to show in order to get that first job.
Everyone of course has an excuse as to why they can't do these things, got a house to look after, got steady income in non-flying-related-job while they wait for the golden airline phone call and can't just abandon the job, got wife and kids that aren't interested, can't afford to live on an instructor's wage (can you afford NOT to, is more to the point??!!) OK fair enough it's your call but be under no illusions that someone who's younger, less tied down, and basically wants the job more than you, is going to be the one who makes those sacrifices and ultimately reaps the rewards. Tough but true.
Seriously. As sure as night follows day, if you go instructing, persevere with it, get those hours in the logbook and don't have the social grace of a baboon, you WILL get that airline job eventually.
That's not even the half of it, how many of you have looked into buggering off to Africa to get some bush flying time for example? And when I say 'looked into it' I don't mean read a few posts of people bitching about it on PPRUNE or even posted a couple of CVs to random addresses in Africa, I mean actually gone out there, slept in a tent or ****ty backpackers hostel for 3 months, kissed ass and swept hangar floors and bought pints for chief pilots and waited for a job to come up? Dozens of Kiwis, Aussies, South Africans, Canadians, Americans and even the occasional enterprising European person do that each year, not just in Africa but in places like New Guinea, South America, the Carribbean, Aussie northern territory etc. The ones who actually show a bit of commitment and aren't socially inept freaks, not many of them come away empty handed. Not many of them post on here either because they're too busy having a great old time and logging every hour that God sends for a year or two before coming home with a couple thousand hours and getting a proper job.
I filled in a space in my own logbook by going microlight instructing for a while when nothing else was happening, didn't know sweet F.A. about microlights but had the CPL licence and was willing to buy a rating and get into it (and when I say 'buy a rating' on microlights I am referring to something that took about an hour-and-a-half to convert onto one sunny afternoon, at the princely sum of around £30 per hour). I only got about 50 or 80 hours on the things but it kept me current until the next money paying position came along.
Last time I was out in the Caribbean in the Turks and Caicos Islands I met a 200 hour bloke who'd actually gone out there to hang around and look for a job and found one bloody quickly, doing para dropping, tax free at $US30 in the hand per flight, half a dozen flights a day means he's actually earning more than a lot of airline pilots, he's got no intention of coming back home to the UK and flogging around in a turboprop any time soon!
The point is they got out there and did something about it as opposed to sat around and blamed others for all their problems. There are LOADS of jobs out there if you have the commitment and want to make the effort to go and find them. If you can't make that effort then I don't feel sorry for you types who spend all day sitting around and blaming BALPA, and experienced airline pilots who don't look out for the wannabes, and sort out jobs for their own kids, and rich gits who can afford integrated courses and type ratings, and Johnny foreigners stealing English jobs, and generally blaming everyone under the sun except themselves for their own unemployment.
Get off your arses, think outside the square of the great flock of wannabe sheep, who think that sitting at home getting uncurrent and firing off cvs to the same 30 or 40 UK jet and turboprop operators is going to produce results, because it's NOT. It IS a lottery and it's a lottery that's cruelly stacked against you IF that's all the initiative you are prepared to show in order to get that first job.
Everyone of course has an excuse as to why they can't do these things, got a house to look after, got steady income in non-flying-related-job while they wait for the golden airline phone call and can't just abandon the job, got wife and kids that aren't interested, can't afford to live on an instructor's wage (can you afford NOT to, is more to the point??!!) OK fair enough it's your call but be under no illusions that someone who's younger, less tied down, and basically wants the job more than you, is going to be the one who makes those sacrifices and ultimately reaps the rewards. Tough but true.
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So from Mister Geezers post can we safely begin to assume that "this industry" ie aviation as a whole, as some one called it is not asking people to pay for their training and work for nothing???
Sorry to dissapoint but I don't think fleet street will be tripping over this one!
It's not just the airline industry where things are changing. In a previous life we all stuck together and agreed we wouldn't pay out, but in the end one bloke did so we all had to follow, that particular industry changed. £20K out of pocket I was. But i kept working and those that didn't INVEST (not the same as prostituting themselves) got a ahead. It paid for my ppl. As long as i have been investing I have been progressing.
I used to read and take note of especially WWW's posts at length during late 2001/2 and there were noooooo jobs going apart form ryanair and ctc. There was a hell of a lot less whinging going on then compared to now when in recent times it has never been so good.
flybe in serious trouble to find crews, ezy the same, people moving to virgin and ba and emirates having a knock on down the food chain. People thinking that 9/11 is gone and maybe flying is a safer bet than a few years a go and doing ATPL courses, which need instructors.
WWW do you agree or has something changed in the few years since I have been away from this particular forum?!
This becomes really quite exasperating!
Sorry to dissapoint but I don't think fleet street will be tripping over this one!
It's not just the airline industry where things are changing. In a previous life we all stuck together and agreed we wouldn't pay out, but in the end one bloke did so we all had to follow, that particular industry changed. £20K out of pocket I was. But i kept working and those that didn't INVEST (not the same as prostituting themselves) got a ahead. It paid for my ppl. As long as i have been investing I have been progressing.
I used to read and take note of especially WWW's posts at length during late 2001/2 and there were noooooo jobs going apart form ryanair and ctc. There was a hell of a lot less whinging going on then compared to now when in recent times it has never been so good.
flybe in serious trouble to find crews, ezy the same, people moving to virgin and ba and emirates having a knock on down the food chain. People thinking that 9/11 is gone and maybe flying is a safer bet than a few years a go and doing ATPL courses, which need instructors.
WWW do you agree or has something changed in the few years since I have been away from this particular forum?!
This becomes really quite exasperating!
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Scroggs and Luke
Couldn't agree more guys been treading the boards here for a few years now.
So for you chaps who think its impossible here's a quick resumee.
Worked 10 years in manufacturing. Had done some flying, Flying scholarship and UAS and had a PPL. (The First Gulf war and the end of the Cold war knack the market at that time.)
Decided around time of 9/11 that I wanted to pursue my dream, such timing!
Did about 6 months research into training options. This resulted in me having the fATPL in Sept 03 via the modular route. Guess what no jobs for guys with 200hours. Whether you were Int or Mod graduates. I had set my sites on the CTC ATP scheme, but as there were no jobs the hold pool was full.
So I had a choice lick my wound and complain about the market or do something. I went and got an FI rating so I could keep building my hours and learn more about the old flying game. I got a job with the school I trained with. This saw me building hours all last year and having a great time, although yes the pay is dreadful, so I had some other income streams in place. Wife and family still needed to eat.
This meant that my experience was building while the job market was recovering and making my cv that bit more interesting than the next guy with 200 hours and no commercial experience.
In Autumn last year I heard Jet2 were recruiting, but guess what they wanted Integrated grads or 300 hours EFIS. Where did that leave me with my hard earned 800 hours. Well life isn't fair so you've just got to get on.
I went to the BALPA conference and like many others heard of the imminent upturn to come. Where was it for me though, these were mostly jet ops and how would that help me? Well it did help me because just before Christmas I got a call from 2 regional turbo-prop outfits for interview and over the Christmas holidays was in receipt of 2 job offers. Both with quick start dates. These opportunities opened up due to the jet guys recruiting again. The actual selection for interview and getting my cv noticed probabley came down to lots of networking and making sure the right people new who I was. Thus when someone screamed "We need more PILOTS" my name was close to hand.
After I had started my type rating I also received 2 further calls for interview, a turbine op and a regional jet op. Thus I have had the pleasure of flying a regional TP for the last 7 months.
However it doesn't end there as I have a new job and will be starting the type rating for the B737 in November.
Some advice I have been given over the last couple years;
-Never give up.
-There are many different career options in this industry, aim for the one which suits you and get there as soon as possible.
-Do all you can to improve your CV.
-Preparation is everything, you don't want to blow the only chance you may get. Remember your Scout's moto!!
-Network, Network, Network.
On the last point, I knew how important this was and it was emphasised by a good friend of mine. At the time, about 2 years ago, I thought how do I do that. I currently have friends or just acquaintance in over a dozen airlines!
For those of you who bitch about age I'm 34 and a mate recently started with our lot at 42.
Thats how I got here today, there have been numerous setbecks, but that's life. A friend who did the FI course with me got thompsonfly with only 250 hours, I was one year too old. I didn't get selected for the CTC ATP scheme but a friend did and he got BA citiexpress. Another guy got BMI Regional with only 250 hours and another instructor mate got FRA. But I looked on all this in a positive light as it showed to me that the market was moving. In recent months many of my old instructor colleagues have also had interviews.
No doubt this post will be subject to the usual petty flaming, well its not meant for you.
To the guys who find it spurs them on.
P.S. If things get too much pull out the old Chumbawumba - Tubthumper
Couldn't agree more guys been treading the boards here for a few years now.
So for you chaps who think its impossible here's a quick resumee.
Worked 10 years in manufacturing. Had done some flying, Flying scholarship and UAS and had a PPL. (The First Gulf war and the end of the Cold war knack the market at that time.)
Decided around time of 9/11 that I wanted to pursue my dream, such timing!
Did about 6 months research into training options. This resulted in me having the fATPL in Sept 03 via the modular route. Guess what no jobs for guys with 200hours. Whether you were Int or Mod graduates. I had set my sites on the CTC ATP scheme, but as there were no jobs the hold pool was full.
So I had a choice lick my wound and complain about the market or do something. I went and got an FI rating so I could keep building my hours and learn more about the old flying game. I got a job with the school I trained with. This saw me building hours all last year and having a great time, although yes the pay is dreadful, so I had some other income streams in place. Wife and family still needed to eat.
This meant that my experience was building while the job market was recovering and making my cv that bit more interesting than the next guy with 200 hours and no commercial experience.
In Autumn last year I heard Jet2 were recruiting, but guess what they wanted Integrated grads or 300 hours EFIS. Where did that leave me with my hard earned 800 hours. Well life isn't fair so you've just got to get on.
I went to the BALPA conference and like many others heard of the imminent upturn to come. Where was it for me though, these were mostly jet ops and how would that help me? Well it did help me because just before Christmas I got a call from 2 regional turbo-prop outfits for interview and over the Christmas holidays was in receipt of 2 job offers. Both with quick start dates. These opportunities opened up due to the jet guys recruiting again. The actual selection for interview and getting my cv noticed probabley came down to lots of networking and making sure the right people new who I was. Thus when someone screamed "We need more PILOTS" my name was close to hand.
After I had started my type rating I also received 2 further calls for interview, a turbine op and a regional jet op. Thus I have had the pleasure of flying a regional TP for the last 7 months.
However it doesn't end there as I have a new job and will be starting the type rating for the B737 in November.
Some advice I have been given over the last couple years;
-Never give up.
-There are many different career options in this industry, aim for the one which suits you and get there as soon as possible.
-Do all you can to improve your CV.
-Preparation is everything, you don't want to blow the only chance you may get. Remember your Scout's moto!!
-Network, Network, Network.
On the last point, I knew how important this was and it was emphasised by a good friend of mine. At the time, about 2 years ago, I thought how do I do that. I currently have friends or just acquaintance in over a dozen airlines!
For those of you who bitch about age I'm 34 and a mate recently started with our lot at 42.
Thats how I got here today, there have been numerous setbecks, but that's life. A friend who did the FI course with me got thompsonfly with only 250 hours, I was one year too old. I didn't get selected for the CTC ATP scheme but a friend did and he got BA citiexpress. Another guy got BMI Regional with only 250 hours and another instructor mate got FRA. But I looked on all this in a positive light as it showed to me that the market was moving. In recent months many of my old instructor colleagues have also had interviews.
No doubt this post will be subject to the usual petty flaming, well its not meant for you.
To the guys who find it spurs them on.
P.S. If things get too much pull out the old Chumbawumba - Tubthumper
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Jobs
I totally agree with everyone and am in the same position. 30+, 700 hours instructing, told to Fox Oscar by everuone etc.
Can people stop saying that 'you make your own luck'. By definition it's a contadiction in terms. And not very motivating to those of us who have not landed a job yet.
Someone wrote before; 'when do you decide to pack in in as you may have less to lose now than carrying on'. How many of us have thought about that!
Can people stop saying that 'you make your own luck'. By definition it's a contadiction in terms. And not very motivating to those of us who have not landed a job yet.
Someone wrote before; 'when do you decide to pack in in as you may have less to lose now than carrying on'. How many of us have thought about that!
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I don't agree, you really can make your own luck.
Luck is when someone screams "pilots" and your cv is on the pile and you spoke to the chief pilot 2 weeks ago and he remembers you and calls you.
Luck is asking an acquaintance to show you round the airline offices. When he checks if it is ok with the boss, the boss says tell him to put a suit on and we will call it an interview.
Happened to me. Made my own luck.
Luck is when someone screams "pilots" and your cv is on the pile and you spoke to the chief pilot 2 weeks ago and he remembers you and calls you.
Luck is asking an acquaintance to show you round the airline offices. When he checks if it is ok with the boss, the boss says tell him to put a suit on and we will call it an interview.
Happened to me. Made my own luck.
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So from Mister Geezers post can we safely begin to assume that "this industry" i.e. aviation as a whole, as some one called it is not asking people to pay for their training and work for nothing???
I am a great believer that you can make your own luck. I wouldn't of got my first airline job if I had not decided to get a FI rating and create some luck for myself but that is another story! The ball is in your court!!
Someone wrote before; 'when do you decide to pack in as you may have less to lose now than carrying on'. How many of us have thought about that!
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Making your own luck is exactly what Luke's and Aviate's posts are about. As Luke says, if your preference is to sit at home reading Pprune, sending off CVs and complaining that airlines aren't tripping over each other to get to your front door, you might want to rethink your strategy.
No one owes you a living. You have to go and earn it - in every sense of the word. And that doesn't mean just passing your ATPLs and giving OAT (or whoever) £50K.
Scroggs
No one owes you a living. You have to go and earn it - in every sense of the word. And that doesn't mean just passing your ATPLs and giving OAT (or whoever) £50K.
Scroggs
Last edited by scroggs; 25th Sep 2005 at 18:23.
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I have to echo what Scroggs has said. Being pro-active and being lucky go hand in hand. That is speaking from experience. Interesting to note that those who fly commercially all have the same point of view. Food for thought?
aviate2day
The penny has just dropped, you must be the LBA F/O that I heard is leaving after joining not long ago!
aviate2day
The penny has just dropped, you must be the LBA F/O that I heard is leaving after joining not long ago!
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Mister Geezer
Wasn't planning on moving so quick but when the offer of a Jet job came up, only 25 mins from home I couldn't really say no, despite bond etc.
Are you at INV later this week? pm me if so
Wasn't planning on moving so quick but when the offer of a Jet job came up, only 25 mins from home I couldn't really say no, despite bond etc.
Are you at INV later this week? pm me if so
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It is very true that luck can be a major factor in getting a job but i think that reflects badly on recruitment policies of some companies. I was involved in recruitment as a manager in another transport industry and we gathered hundreds of speculative applications for a popular job. All of these applications were sorted and filed and we had a proper system in place for considering each one. This did take time - but we considered it to be very important and time was always found.
" I have a pile of 200 c.v's on my desk and 20 coming in each day"is a tale i have heard a few times.
It is unfortunate that someone who has been applying with enthusiasm for years can lose out on a "lucky dip".
Nomercy.
" I have a pile of 200 c.v's on my desk and 20 coming in each day"is a tale i have heard a few times.
It is unfortunate that someone who has been applying with enthusiasm for years can lose out on a "lucky dip".
Nomercy.
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Firstly...i totally agree with most of the posts that no matter how many rejections or setbacks you have..you should not give up that easily. Persistence and commitment is essential if you really want to make it as a commercial pilot..as we all know im sure!!
Secondly..to all those making rediculous posts regarding gaining your ATPL..I laugh at those remarks stating that if you have the money, you can buy your way into a right hand seat...what a load of c**p!!!!Yes money is a major factor if you want to live the dream..and if you have the funds then a mediocre ATPL can be gained by pretty much anyone...but those of you are im sure are aware that a license doesnt get you a job..airline selection does!!I am fortunate to be going through CTC and surprisingly...i dont have 60000 quid to cough up..i have a gigantic bank loan to do that..so the rich daddy syndrome doesnt apply here!What i hopefully have are the raw skills, aptitude and motivation to become a airline pilot..confirmed by professional pilot assessors..not just a hunch that i feel i would be the dogs b******S..which it sounds like..some of the posters on this thread feel they have..not naming names!
I would suggest that anyone who is eligible for a organisation like CTC..to go for it..as they dont care about when you can hand over your cash..but more importantly..they only care about whether you are the right stuff or not..and the reward being the job at the end of the line!!
Setbacks and rejections are unfortunately the name of the game in this industry..but the way to approach it is not to whinge..or accuse successful applicants that daddy has paid the way for them!!
Cheers
Secondly..to all those making rediculous posts regarding gaining your ATPL..I laugh at those remarks stating that if you have the money, you can buy your way into a right hand seat...what a load of c**p!!!!Yes money is a major factor if you want to live the dream..and if you have the funds then a mediocre ATPL can be gained by pretty much anyone...but those of you are im sure are aware that a license doesnt get you a job..airline selection does!!I am fortunate to be going through CTC and surprisingly...i dont have 60000 quid to cough up..i have a gigantic bank loan to do that..so the rich daddy syndrome doesnt apply here!What i hopefully have are the raw skills, aptitude and motivation to become a airline pilot..confirmed by professional pilot assessors..not just a hunch that i feel i would be the dogs b******S..which it sounds like..some of the posters on this thread feel they have..not naming names!
I would suggest that anyone who is eligible for a organisation like CTC..to go for it..as they dont care about when you can hand over your cash..but more importantly..they only care about whether you are the right stuff or not..and the reward being the job at the end of the line!!
Setbacks and rejections are unfortunately the name of the game in this industry..but the way to approach it is not to whinge..or accuse successful applicants that daddy has paid the way for them!!
Cheers
Join Date: May 2005
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I have to agree with Moffman and the other guys who support this line. This is by far one of the most difficult jobs a person can attain (especially if you're looking to work at the high end of the market). Competition is fierce and I admire anyone who is prepared to put in the vast financial resource required to even have a chance.
At the end of the day though, money gets you licences, not jobs! It’s a bullsh*t philosophy to say that the industry is going back to the day when the guys from wealthy backgrounds are the only people coming through.. I’ve always wanted to do this job and wasn’t one of the fortunate few born into money. I would argue that this probably put me in a better position as I had to think very carefully about how I could give myself the best chance of success. An angry bank manager banging down the door to get his 60K back off a penniless whinger is the last thing one needs.
‘Airline placement is the key’. Yes I am also training in NZ with CTC. Yes I will have paid approx 100K back to the bank by the time I end my 7th year of service with an airline. 
But, it’s all academic as the financial set up with the airline will support this. Nothing is guaranteed but all I really have to worry about for the next year or so is working my arse off. The company does the rest. So the argument would then say that even for the guys with spoons up the jacksy, an airline placement setup such as this would probably be the most viable financial option.
For the guys that say 'yes I’ve tried all that and didn’t get through'. I’d sympathise with some of you as ridiculously hair splitting decisions may have been the reason why. However, ‘determination’ sees one through. I had plenty of rejection before CTC and had I not made it, I would have asked myself serious questions as to what next?
Maybe some of the stories outlined in this thread, maybe even curtains. Eggs have to be kept in several baskets.
For the people who really want this job and are doing everything they possibly can to get it to the extent of calculated risk. I wish you all the best & hope you make it.
I’m not pitching for CTC but 'common sense... simple common sense' (as a famous rapper from The Streets so eloquently put it)...
If any readers want in and haven't picked up on this particular route then do some research!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...11#post1960811
At the end of the day though, money gets you licences, not jobs! It’s a bullsh*t philosophy to say that the industry is going back to the day when the guys from wealthy backgrounds are the only people coming through.. I’ve always wanted to do this job and wasn’t one of the fortunate few born into money. I would argue that this probably put me in a better position as I had to think very carefully about how I could give myself the best chance of success. An angry bank manager banging down the door to get his 60K back off a penniless whinger is the last thing one needs.
‘Airline placement is the key’. Yes I am also training in NZ with CTC.
Yes I will have paid approx 100K back to the bank by the time I end my 7th year of service with an airline. But, it’s all academic as the financial set up with the airline will support this. Nothing is guaranteed but all I really have to worry about for the next year or so is working my arse off. The company does the rest. So the argument would then say that even for the guys with spoons up the jacksy, an airline placement setup such as this would probably be the most viable financial option.For the guys that say 'yes I’ve tried all that and didn’t get through'. I’d sympathise with some of you as ridiculously hair splitting decisions may have been the reason why. However, ‘determination’ sees one through. I had plenty of rejection before CTC and had I not made it, I would have asked myself serious questions as to what next?
Maybe some of the stories outlined in this thread, maybe even curtains. Eggs have to be kept in several baskets.For the people who really want this job and are doing everything they possibly can to get it to the extent of calculated risk. I wish you all the best & hope you make it.
I’m not pitching for CTC but 'common sense... simple common sense' (as a famous rapper from The Streets so eloquently put it)...
If any readers want in and haven't picked up on this particular route then do some research!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...11#post1960811
Join Date: Sep 1998
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All you wanabees, take head of the wise words of Luke Sky Toddler.......its the winning formula......I did exactly that in 1999...and 6 years later with just under 4000 hours I am still on the road. I went out into the BIG WIDE WORLD with my log book/backpack/Headset and got my first flying job, I knocked on many doors. My first job was flying a Cessna 182, and living in converted container 8 degrees from the equator........and now in the middle east on a turbo prop, whose knows where the next stop will be. Get out there, shake peoples hands and see the world and get some real flying under your belt.....and have some fun and exposure to other cultures.
Cheers FM
Cheers FM
Join Date: Jan 2003
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When I finished my degree, it took me several months to find a job. In that time I worked for a pie manufacturer packing pork pies into boxes. Everyday one of my fellow employees would comment on what a waste of time my degree was and that I would never find any kind of other work. After a while I almost believed them; then one day the phone rang and I was told that I was accepted onto a decent graduate training scheme. That job lasted for a year or so until I was made redundant. Again, people were repeating the same lines, "no jobs" and "all a waste of time." Two months later I was in a working in a much better paid job and by the time I was out of work again I had climbed a fair way up the corporate ladder and getting an ever better paid and more responsible job was fairly easy. What of the people I worked with in the pie factory who told me there was no hope? Most hated their job, did nothing about it and are still packing boxes at the same factory.
The problem in Europe that prevents most low houred pilots from helping themselves is the possibilty of the low hour B737 job. As an instructor I very often train European pilots getting themselves current on multi engine aircraft. Most tell me that they have had the ratings for years and there are are no jobs in Europe. I open up the logbook and find that they have 200 odd hours and have not flown for six months. I ask why they don't try instructing and they tend to give a reply along the lines of "Ryanair and Jet2 are recruiting and if that doesn't work out I'll go and fly jets in China." These are unrealistic expectations and if the only flying job that will work for them is the shiny new jet, they will continue to be dissapointed. They remind me of the hapless people back in the pie factory doing very little to help themselves.
The problem in Europe that prevents most low houred pilots from helping themselves is the possibilty of the low hour B737 job. As an instructor I very often train European pilots getting themselves current on multi engine aircraft. Most tell me that they have had the ratings for years and there are are no jobs in Europe. I open up the logbook and find that they have 200 odd hours and have not flown for six months. I ask why they don't try instructing and they tend to give a reply along the lines of "Ryanair and Jet2 are recruiting and if that doesn't work out I'll go and fly jets in China." These are unrealistic expectations and if the only flying job that will work for them is the shiny new jet, they will continue to be dissapointed. They remind me of the hapless people back in the pie factory doing very little to help themselves.