Thomsonfly FTE Scheme
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Don't despair Travnet (Are you only a Travnetsite on weekends?? 
)
Funnily I also have leaving cert, but since living in the uk I've learnt not to differentiate. They never even think that there is anything but A levels, so I just tell them that I have A levels. (I'm privately convinced that leaving cert is not the equivilent, but of a much higher standard
)
If they get picky I explain. If they're happy, then I don't. It hasn't been a problem so far.
In your answers, just be honest, tell them what you can and don't worry.
Just remember that you're not fighting for a job, you're fighting for them to let you pay them money to train you, and to be considered for a job. Massive difference.
Slán agus sláinte.
)Funnily I also have leaving cert, but since living in the uk I've learnt not to differentiate. They never even think that there is anything but A levels, so I just tell them that I have A levels. (I'm privately convinced that leaving cert is not the equivilent, but of a much higher standard
) If they get picky I explain. If they're happy, then I don't. It hasn't been a problem so far.
In your answers, just be honest, tell them what you can and don't worry.
Just remember that you're not fighting for a job, you're fighting for them to let you pay them money to train you, and to be considered for a job. Massive difference.
Slán agus sláinte.
Last edited by PIGDOG; 12th May 2005 at 19:50.
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Went to check the FTE website again, seems that the link has now changed to a BA CitiExpress scheme......exactly the same form, but with BA substituted for Britannia.....
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FTE has recently secured a Self-sponsored scheme along similar lines to the Thomsonfly gig.....As a student here, i can say it is really beginning to happen for the college at the moment. Think there may be even more companies starting this type of scheme at FTE in the near future too.
I believe the Thomsonfly course will start in June and 2 BACX courses, one in August and one in Oct. Fill your boots guys, now is the time to get involved.
I believe the Thomsonfly course will start in June and 2 BACX courses, one in August and one in Oct. Fill your boots guys, now is the time to get involved.
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The point is that it is not a Thompsonfly or BACX course, is it. These are FTE courses, paid for by the students, not the airlines. At the end of the day are graduates from these courses any more likely to get a job with the partner airlines than any other Jerez graduate? If the answer to this question is no, then what exactly do the advertised courses offer over any other Jerez course? The present ad in Flight offers "finance toward a JOC / MCC" or some such, but such offers have been made to any student who signs up for the integrated CPL/IR at Jerez. To me it (sadly) sounds like an effort at attracting students.
I thought at least on the Thomsonfly scheme Thomsonfly are involved in the selection of the student. Therefore students accepted on this scheme will have already passed Thomsonfly selection and as long as they do well on the course and Thomsonfly have vacancies when they finish they will be first in the queue.
I said it before (and got shot down in flames!) but the Thomsonfly scheme is not really any different from CTC and yet everybody accepts CTC as a valid route these days. In both CTC and Thomsonfly the student has to provide ALL the funding (help is provided for sourcing) but, even at CTC, if times go bad and there in no job at the end (no guarantees!) the student still has to pay off the loan.
I said it before (and got shot down in flames!) but the Thomsonfly scheme is not really any different from CTC and yet everybody accepts CTC as a valid route these days. In both CTC and Thomsonfly the student has to provide ALL the funding (help is provided for sourcing) but, even at CTC, if times go bad and there in no job at the end (no guarantees!) the student still has to pay off the loan.
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Tallbloke, I am afraid you haven't a clue what you are talking about. All the self sponsored scemes that take place here under the auspices of related airlines are fully endorsed by those airlines who have a genuine undertaking to employ their selected candidates after training.
Of course there are no guarantees as with anything for a low hours wannabe at the moment so yes there is significant risk involved. Fact is that the bean counters are not authorising any risk at all at the moment for renewed full sponsorship schemes and are unlikely to for a long time yet. For someone that is not approved at FTE believe me something would be better than nothing and these schemes are definitely worth a shot. Like it or not this is the type of scheme that is emerging as the prefered route post 9/11 and I believe is here to stay.
As regards to CTC the whole product offered here is entirely different and much better value for money as the course is integrated and you get all the groudschool taught and not learned off a computer 14,000 miles away in NZ. PLus when you eventually start with an airline you will be paid a decent wage instead of being paid the shocking payscales akin to those set up for CTC grads with Easyjet for 7 years!!
Of course there are no guarantees as with anything for a low hours wannabe at the moment so yes there is significant risk involved. Fact is that the bean counters are not authorising any risk at all at the moment for renewed full sponsorship schemes and are unlikely to for a long time yet. For someone that is not approved at FTE believe me something would be better than nothing and these schemes are definitely worth a shot. Like it or not this is the type of scheme that is emerging as the prefered route post 9/11 and I believe is here to stay.
As regards to CTC the whole product offered here is entirely different and much better value for money as the course is integrated and you get all the groudschool taught and not learned off a computer 14,000 miles away in NZ. PLus when you eventually start with an airline you will be paid a decent wage instead of being paid the shocking payscales akin to those set up for CTC grads with Easyjet for 7 years!!
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Well wubalaj,
If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?
These are professionals, and if it is as you say, then there is no point in putting our own (god forbid) money up front.
Have these people ever heard of risk sharing. I'm sure your parents told you when you were very young that sharing is nice. Well, it's true. Otherwise I feel like I'm being taken for a ride.
If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?
These are professionals, and if it is as you say, then there is no point in putting our own (god forbid) money up front.
Have these people ever heard of risk sharing. I'm sure your parents told you when you were very young that sharing is nice. Well, it's true. Otherwise I feel like I'm being taken for a ride.
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Thing is Schweinhund I totally agree with you.......Wait around and see what happens but you will be waiting a bloody long time and probably be far too old to do it when the airlines do have sponsorships again. I am not the kind of person who wants to get to middle age wishing I had grown some balls when I was younger and gone into the profession I always wanted to do.
Remember also that in the past the BA sponsorship had up to 55,000 applicants each year for 100 places........May be you actually stand more chance of making it in the present climate?!?
Remember also that in the past the BA sponsorship had up to 55,000 applicants each year for 100 places........May be you actually stand more chance of making it in the present climate?!?
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That's a fair point.
However, I think I'll just save up a bit, do PPL. Save up a bit, do ME. Save up a bit, do IR. Save up a bit...etc.
Not that I'm saying it's the best for everyone out there. It's just the answer I've come to after thinking about it for a long time.
It works out cheaper in the end, with no debt hung about thy neck. It's at your own pace. And if you decide not to go professional, it's a damn fine hobby.
Cheers All
Schwein-Hund
However, I think I'll just save up a bit, do PPL. Save up a bit, do ME. Save up a bit, do IR. Save up a bit...etc.
Not that I'm saying it's the best for everyone out there. It's just the answer I've come to after thinking about it for a long time.
It works out cheaper in the end, with no debt hung about thy neck. It's at your own pace. And if you decide not to go professional, it's a damn fine hobby.
Cheers All
Schwein-Hund
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Wubalaj
Any chance you are just a tad biased? You compare CTC and FTE. They are completely different. Compare how many students from each are now working on a jet - CTC have a far superior employment rate. Also you don't hand over cash with CTC - FTE you do.
The Thomsonfly scheme really doesn't mean much. They don't have to take you, much the same as any low hour guys they do take don't have to come from there. Indeed they have taken on modular guys recently.
Also do you think that a brand new cadet at Thomson will earn more than a CTC wings graduate? If you do then think again. Perhaps you were knocked back from CTC?
Not often I defend them, but your post was garbage.
Any chance you are just a tad biased? You compare CTC and FTE. They are completely different. Compare how many students from each are now working on a jet - CTC have a far superior employment rate. Also you don't hand over cash with CTC - FTE you do.
The Thomsonfly scheme really doesn't mean much. They don't have to take you, much the same as any low hour guys they do take don't have to come from there. Indeed they have taken on modular guys recently.
Also do you think that a brand new cadet at Thomson will earn more than a CTC wings graduate? If you do then think again. Perhaps you were knocked back from CTC?
Not often I defend them, but your post was garbage.
Clarification required
Wubalaj wrote:
Do the guys going on the Thomsonfly/BACX endorsed schemes have a written contract to this effect? Or is it a 'genuine undertaking' based on goodwill?
(A simple yes/no answer to the former question from someone with direct experience will suffice. No hearsay required.)
Many thanks.
All the self sponsored scemes that take place here under the auspices of related airlines are fully endorsed by those airlines who have a genuine undertaking to employ their selected candidates after training.
(A simple yes/no answer to the former question from someone with direct experience will suffice. No hearsay required.)
Many thanks.
Empennage, thanks for that. Good to get a bit more information about it.
That said, the question I asked still stands. Is there any kind of legally-binding contract?
For example;
I'm merely interested (as, I suspect, are some others) in what each parties binding obligations actually are.
Thanks again.
Charley
That said, the question I asked still stands. Is there any kind of legally-binding contract?
For example;
- are the company contractually obliged to offer you employment at the end of the course (subject to passing the appropriate checks)?
- are you contractually obliged to join Thomson at the end of the course should they offer such employment, or are you free to keep your own options open and go elsewhere if you wish?
I'm merely interested (as, I suspect, are some others) in what each parties binding obligations actually are.
Thanks again.
Charley
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As has been said in previous posts, the Thomsonfly/BACX schemes do not guarantee jobs. However, if you were going to bite the bullet and go and do a course would you not rather do it under the umbrella of an airline. I am not on the Thomsonfly scheme myself, I'm here with different attachments - however had I not been succesful in my initial endeavour then I would have applied as I was always going to do the course, just a question of how.
I realised a long time ago that I was going to have to finance the cost of my training. Even in the so called golden era when BA were fully sponsoring, you went in on a fairly well reduced cadet salary and had to pay back around £15000 over 5 years. Either way, you made a fairly substantial contribution to the cost of your training, it's just being done a little differently now.
As has been said in the post by empennage, Thomsonfly do take an interest in the training of the cadets on their scheme and they will be the first to get jobs upon graduation, assuming the airline requires flight crew at that time. There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will...
I realised a long time ago that I was going to have to finance the cost of my training. Even in the so called golden era when BA were fully sponsoring, you went in on a fairly well reduced cadet salary and had to pay back around £15000 over 5 years. Either way, you made a fairly substantial contribution to the cost of your training, it's just being done a little differently now.
As has been said in the post by empennage, Thomsonfly do take an interest in the training of the cadets on their scheme and they will be the first to get jobs upon graduation, assuming the airline requires flight crew at that time. There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will...
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This scheme is the closest anyone will get to the halcyon days of airline sponsorship
And people joining Thomson under this umbrella will not be on the same Thomsonfly F/O salary that a Direct entry experienced F/O would be on.
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Rubbish.
but your post was garbage
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fastjet2k said:
"There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will..."
Well, I have no problem paying for myself, and I probably will. I just feel that it's my money, so I'll do the whole thing on my terms. I'm certainly not going to hand over A LOT of money and have next to no say. Again, this is my opinion, and you're right, there a plenty of others who are willing to go on to a scheme like this. And I genuienly hope they do very well at it. Just not my cup of tea.
A valid question has been left unanswered: If after satisfactory completion Thomsonfly offer a nice little job, can you refuse and go elsewhere?
"There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will..."
Well, I have no problem paying for myself, and I probably will. I just feel that it's my money, so I'll do the whole thing on my terms. I'm certainly not going to hand over A LOT of money and have next to no say. Again, this is my opinion, and you're right, there a plenty of others who are willing to go on to a scheme like this. And I genuienly hope they do very well at it. Just not my cup of tea.
A valid question has been left unanswered: If after satisfactory completion Thomsonfly offer a nice little job, can you refuse and go elsewhere?
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PIGDOG,
You ask ‘If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?’
My question to you is: are you being serious when you ask this question?
Why should the students take the risk and not the airline? It’s very simple – because there are hundreds if not thousands of guys and a fair amount of girls willing to spend thousands with the hope of an airline job.
I have to agree with wubalaj, fastjet2k et al, a course affiliated with an airline is not to be knocked even if a job at the end isn’t set in stone. I would much rather take my seventy grand chance with an approved scheme than be just be another guy. There will always be people that poo poo these schemes for the sake of poo pooing something. Sad bast_rds.
Good Luck to those having a pop at the Thompsonfly scheme.
9mm
You ask ‘If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?’
My question to you is: are you being serious when you ask this question?
Why should the students take the risk and not the airline? It’s very simple – because there are hundreds if not thousands of guys and a fair amount of girls willing to spend thousands with the hope of an airline job.
I have to agree with wubalaj, fastjet2k et al, a course affiliated with an airline is not to be knocked even if a job at the end isn’t set in stone. I would much rather take my seventy grand chance with an approved scheme than be just be another guy. There will always be people that poo poo these schemes for the sake of poo pooing something. Sad bast_rds.
Good Luck to those having a pop at the Thompsonfly scheme.
9mm
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9mm
My point about the bean counters was that they are people in the know. If they're not going to spend ANY money (part sponsorship, etc) then isn't it a big, flashing, warning, neon light that there isn't going to be a good enough return on their investment, or the risk is too great.
I'm certainly not poo-pooing paying for training, nor anyone who decides to take that route. My point is that shouldn't the airline at least commit to something more than just "if we want you at the time then we'll see"!!
That's all my point was. I certainly wasn't looking for some topic to 'poo-poo'. This is a genuine concern of mine, since I'm interested in finding out about the details. I certainly don't appreciate being called a sad b*****d for asking questions and I think it was out of order.
I'll say again, just to emphasise, that I really do hope that all who get on this do very well out of it. The cons outway the pros FOR ME. But you guys have a good crack at it.
Another (genuine) question:
Do Thomson pay you back the bond over a period of time after employment? Easyjet do it I think, but I'm not sure.
Thanks
My point about the bean counters was that they are people in the know. If they're not going to spend ANY money (part sponsorship, etc) then isn't it a big, flashing, warning, neon light that there isn't going to be a good enough return on their investment, or the risk is too great.
I'm certainly not poo-pooing paying for training, nor anyone who decides to take that route. My point is that shouldn't the airline at least commit to something more than just "if we want you at the time then we'll see"!!
That's all my point was. I certainly wasn't looking for some topic to 'poo-poo'. This is a genuine concern of mine, since I'm interested in finding out about the details. I certainly don't appreciate being called a sad b*****d for asking questions and I think it was out of order.
I'll say again, just to emphasise, that I really do hope that all who get on this do very well out of it. The cons outway the pros FOR ME. But you guys have a good crack at it.
Another (genuine) question:
Do Thomson pay you back the bond over a period of time after employment? Easyjet do it I think, but I'm not sure.
Thanks