NickS

Is anyone else booked in for stage 3 on the 25th October? Feel free to PM me if you are.

Happily I passed stage 2 yesterday. Those pilapt tests are nasty.

sam109

Thanks squakident!

Will definately meet in NZ!! When are you going to leave?
Have really of paper work to fill, and phone calls to make!!!

Hope I will manage to finish everything in time cause mine was a bit of a short notice. hahahahah.

Thanks again and good luck to you!!
Cya in Hamilton

Samuek

glasgowfly

Was an excellent day everyone, see you all on Wednesday. I'll be in the bar from 2pm onwards!!

G

squawkident.

FinalDestination,
Check your PM's

jb2_86_uk

Hey guys. I am new to the forum, and looking forward to making my mark!

Heard about the forum and how great it is from Volent77 when we met before our phase 2 ctc tests on the 29th.

Very unfortunatly, I did not succeed, very gutted but not too suprised. I found them quite difficult and the instructions (especially for the concentration test) were god-awful.

I am definatly going to reapply, there isnt a thing in this world that is going to stop me becoming a pilot, Ill even sell my mother and fund it all myself - well that will get me a lesson or two anyway ha ha.

I have a question for other ctc-ers - what kind of percentage of prospective students who fail initially at phase 2, eventually go on to get on the course? Bob at Stour Villa told me they get alot of people returning to resit the aptitude tests and interview stages.

As long as it is offered, I expect to do a helluva lot better if I may resit the aptitude test, my nerves were off the rails while I was there and I was becoming very overwhelmed. Now I know what to expect and understand the tests, I belive I can produce some much better results!

Ill keep battling away, destined to be a pilot I am certain!

John

bjkeates

They're meant to be difficult. There wouldn't be much use in setting tests which everybody simply breezed through. Also, a fair few people pass them, as evidenced by the number of people on the course, so the instructions can't be that "god-awful".

Streety

And what makes you so sure you're destined to be a pilot??

spaceman18

jb286uk...plenty of people fail stage 2 first time and go back and get through... there were 3 on my own course of 8!
You seem determined to get through, and quite positive... all good signs, precisely the sort of things they look for in stage 3.
Yeah the tests ARE meant to be hard... nobody finds them easy. Theyre looking for improvement more than anything else
Best of luck

pre3mhjt

jb2_86_uk,

I second what Spaceman says, but would also point out that if you were "nervous and over-whelmed" at stage 2 then stage 3 really could be a potential nightmare! You got to try and relax at these things if you really want to perform to the best of your ability.

Pre3

Jimbo_P

jb,

If I were you I wouldn't be too disheartened. At least you now have the experience, and you'll be better prepared for it next time around. Phase 2 tests can be practiced online (and perhaps Dr Kawashima can help..)

You show exactly the right kind of attitude, so I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

Good luck mate!

jb2_86_uk

Thank you for your kind comments

Streety: I am sure I am destined to be a pilot as I cannot see myself doing anything else as a career and I will not stop trying. I can be a very determined little man when I want something this badly.

BJKeates: Specifically, the only instructions I was annoyed with were for the concentration test. After reading them through I thought I knew what to do... then almost passed out as I sat watching the practice session do its thing, seemingly in absolute chaos. I figured it out part way through the first go and found it to be simple enough once I knew what I was doing. After speaking to a couple of guys after the tests, I was not alone in my inital reaction to this test.

pre3mhjt: I am generally ok with interviews, I have always remained calm and relaxed in a face-to-face interview environment in the past. Whether I still will be saying this if I get to the satge 3 tests I do not know, but I would rather sit an interview and put myself across as a person, rather than sit tests and just be a set of figures on a screen to them.

Please dont think I am moaning about the tests (well apart from the moan about the concentration instructions above... lol) I understand why the tests are so hard and I absolutly do not think they need to be made any easier. I am looking forward to resitting them, hoping I will be alot calmer, cooler and collected. I am definatly going to make sure my second bite of the cherry is a sweeter one.

JB

Bigaircraft

I assume u were invited back, in which case you will get to re-applly. but as the others have said, its good experience and you'll have a better chance of getting through the 2nd time because you know what to expect and had the chance to prepare! It may also help you in stage 3, they will ask you about your motivation, and it'll work in your favour to show that you werent detered by getting knocked back in stage 2, and had the motivation to keep trying.

I was knocked back at stage 2 on feb, was invited back in 6 months, and this week im off to stage 4! Dont give up, you seem to have a good attitude so I dont think there is any danger of that! best of luck

squawkident.

The training at BGS is about half way through the basic phase. For me this is 7 months into the NZ course, but i am on the long foundation course.
As far as im aware, its 2 weeks revision, then 1 week of exams.

The second set of exams are after the basic phase (about 2 and a half months more) and is in the same format as before. That being 2 weeks of study then 1 week of exams.

Im not so sure about the "training" though. I was under the impression that the ground school was all distance learning, and that the 2 weeks prior to the exams were revision weeks, rather than actual training or learning sessions.

SIdent

gareth08

Not sure how it's working now, but when i went through CTC, you did the ATPL distance learning course where you read the manuals in your own time, and then submitted online progress tests to BGS. Most of the groups tend to head back after about 5-6 months for the first set of exams - basically usually a week off, followed by a week 'brush up' course at BGS (who admittedly are AWESOME), followed by another week off, then a week of exams at your chosen CAA exam venue.

The date for the second set of exams is a little more flexible, just depending on when you finish the training syallabus in NZ, but the admin staff at CTC organise the bookings of the exams accordingly. Whether it's still the same now i'm not sure, but that's how it was up to the end of 2005.

BIG MISTER

CTC say in their FAQ section :-

Q I am just over 34. Can you make an exception to the age limit?

A Sorry, there are no exceptions. You have to be 33 or below, or only just 34 (within 3 months of your 34th birthday) to apply.


However The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006, which come into force on October 1st 2006, make 'ageism', discrimination on the grounds of age, unlawful and says:-

Among other provisions, the new legislation will make it unlawful to:

Specify that candidates for employment should be above or below an given age

Discriminate against workers under the age of 65 on the grounds of age

Make someone redundant or bar someone from promotion because they are too old or too young

Dismiss an employee or deny them the training opportunities on the basis of age.

I guess a fair few webmasters will be at work later than planed this week ???

Bra

What's the passrate in comparison with the number attending first stage selection? (By passrate, I mean those who actually go onto course acceptance)

Also, roughly how many places are available a year?

Thanks guys
Bra

Maximum_Smash

If you look very closely, the answer here is in the question. They are the "EMPLOYMENT" Equality (Age) Regulations 2006. As CTC Wings is an independent Sponsorship scheme, in no way "employing" their cadets then they are free to take people on whatever criteria they choose (other relevent legalities permitting of course). A delicious little loophole for the young and vibrant if you ask me

Streety

Max_Smash,

Not necessarily, as the regulations also apply to vocational training courses equally as they do to 'employment'.

In short, the answer is probably, watch this space...

Bra,

The passrate, if you want to call it that, is around 4-5%.

Streety.

1711

Employment Law. I love a legal argument, just great. At the moment there is no case law, but if an airline state that you have to do certain courses with certain training providers in order to get employment with that airline and that training provider has an arbitary age limit then I think the age limit by CTC of 34 can mean that the airline can be legally challenged on the grounds of indirect discrimination. The same legal principle already exists on grounds of gender, race and disability so I am very confident that it will cross over to this issue.

I spoke with an airline at the BALPA EOC last month and challenged them on CTC recruitment. They tried to distance themselves until my friend pointed out to them that they specifically mentioned and linked to CTC on their website where it stated in no uncertain terms that if you want employment with us, these are the training providers you need to use. That airline got very uncomfortable under that questioning and I would say they were embarrassed. Hopefully, they might exert some pressure soon and change the age thing at CTC. Moral and ethical trading I think is the term.

The other thing to bear in mind is that bad press clearly hurts airlines. I am not sure how comfortable the airlines and others will feel if CTC's entry requirements remain unchanged. Suppose CTC said, "white males only" - I have no doubt that any airline (certainly in the UK and other western countries) wouldn't associate themselves with CTC because it is against race relations law and also really bad PR, so what is in it for an airline to associate themselves with a training provider who discriminate on the ground of age. Also, rejecting people because of their ethnic origin is just ignorance of the highest order and no one can argue against that - well the same is true of age!

As BALPA says, age discrimination is a totally wasteful practice. There can be absolutely no justification for an arbitary age limit of 34. If airlines want the best people for the job then they have to get rid of their prejudices and seek to cast a recruitment net as wide as possible to seek the more able candidates. That means chosing training providers with no sexist, racist and ageist recruitment policies. Ultimately it reflects back at the airline in terms of PR but also in terms of an overall weakened quality of staff. It is just bad for business and profits if you employ staff based on unjustified and arbitary policies.

If you have a robust selection procedure then you can weed out unsuitable candidates on their ability and not age. Being cheeky now, a quick glance at the above replies suggests to me that me that a lot of you young types can't even do maths, so to use an argument for age discrimination, I would say that only those above 34 should be considered for CTC! Of course that argument is rubbish because you can't say that, in all cases, those under 34 are not suitable for training so why use that argument to exclude people over 34? In fact, my mom says that anybody (except girls) under the age of 30 should be barred from flying passenger jets. Her logic is that almost 60% of all road accidents (help me out on that stat BigMister) are caused by males under the age of 30; "if they can't drive a car what chance of them being able to fly a 737!"

I think the days of CTC's and others age discrimination policies are limited. If they don't change then I know the airlines will select other training providers because otherwise it will cost the airlines dearly.

BIG MISTER

[QUOTE=1711;2883902]In fact, my mom says that anybody (except girls) under the age of 30 should be barred from flying passenger jets. Her logic is that almost 60% of all road accidents (help me out on that stat BigMister) are caused by males under the age of 30; "if they can't drive a car what chance of them being able to fly a 737!" QUOTE]

Sheela's Wheels moving into 737 insurance now ?

I always had problems with the 'young guys have more accidents than girls' national stats as in the 'real world' just as many girls have accidents as lads.

I would have said that in the past that this was possibly due to there being more gents behind the wheel than ladies but thats not the case these days.

I would suggest that the stats are starting to even out these days 'in the real world' but gawd knows where the insurance companies get their figures from. I mean they constantly tell us all on the TV that they can all save us 40% more than the other companied right ?

SO why is it that my 'trusty rusty' BMW 328 is £220 F.comp with one company and £450 F.comp with another ! ! !

Anyway we are off the subject matter - that happends when you are over 34 years old !!!!

- Drive safe - back to an aviation thread !