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The CTC Wings Scheme thread

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The CTC Wings Scheme thread

Old 1st Oct 2006, 01:31
  #1361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Deepest Europe...
Age: 34
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by jb2_86_uk
I found them quite difficult and the instructions (especially for the concentration test) were god-awful.
They're meant to be difficult. There wouldn't be much use in setting tests which everybody simply breezed through. Also, a fair few people pass them, as evidenced by the number of people on the course, so the instructions can't be that "god-awful".
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 03:41
  #1362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Driving Buses
Posts: 44
And what makes you so sure you're destined to be a pilot??
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 04:15
  #1363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 66
jb286uk...plenty of people fail stage 2 first time and go back and get through... there were 3 on my own course of 8!
You seem determined to get through, and quite positive... all good signs, precisely the sort of things they look for in stage 3.
Yeah the tests ARE meant to be hard... nobody finds them easy. Theyre looking for improvement more than anything else
Best of luck
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 08:09
  #1364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever I'm told
Posts: 46
jb2_86_uk,

I second what Spaceman says, but would also point out that if you were "nervous and over-whelmed" at stage 2 then stage 3 really could be a potential nightmare! You got to try and relax at these things if you really want to perform to the best of your ability.

Pre3
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 11:11
  #1365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hamilton, NZ
Posts: 24
jb,

If I were you I wouldn't be too disheartened. At least you now have the experience, and you'll be better prepared for it next time around. Phase 2 tests can be practiced online (and perhaps Dr Kawashima can help..)

You show exactly the right kind of attitude, so I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

Good luck mate!
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 14:10
  #1366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Too Low, Terrain.
Age: 33
Posts: 97
Thank you for your kind comments

Streety: I am sure I am destined to be a pilot as I cannot see myself doing anything else as a career and I will not stop trying. I can be a very determined little man when I want something this badly.

BJKeates: Specifically, the only instructions I was annoyed with were for the concentration test. After reading them through I thought I knew what to do... then almost passed out as I sat watching the practice session do its thing, seemingly in absolute chaos. I figured it out part way through the first go and found it to be simple enough once I knew what I was doing. After speaking to a couple of guys after the tests, I was not alone in my inital reaction to this test.

pre3mhjt: I am generally ok with interviews, I have always remained calm and relaxed in a face-to-face interview environment in the past. Whether I still will be saying this if I get to the satge 3 tests I do not know, but I would rather sit an interview and put myself across as a person, rather than sit tests and just be a set of figures on a screen to them.

Please dont think I am moaning about the tests (well apart from the moan about the concentration instructions above... lol) I understand why the tests are so hard and I absolutly do not think they need to be made any easier. I am looking forward to resitting them, hoping I will be alot calmer, cooler and collected. I am definatly going to make sure my second bite of the cherry is a sweeter one.

JB
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 16:09
  #1367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aberdeenshire
Age: 35
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by jb2_86_uk View Post
Hey guys. I am new to the forum, and looking forward to making my mark!

Heard about the forum and how great it is from Volent77 when we met before our phase 2 ctc tests on the 29th.

Very unfortunatly, I did not succeed, very gutted but not too suprised. I found them quite difficult and the instructions (especially for the concentration test) were god-awful.

I am definatly going to reapply, there isnt a thing in this world that is going to stop me becoming a pilot, Ill even sell my mother and fund it all myself - well that will get me a lesson or two anyway ha ha.

I have a question for other ctc-ers - what kind of percentage of prospective students who fail initially at phase 2, eventually go on to get on the course? Bob at Stour Villa told me they get alot of people returning to resit the aptitude tests and interview stages.

As long as it is offered, I expect to do a helluva lot better if I may resit the aptitude test, my nerves were off the rails while I was there and I was becoming very overwhelmed. Now I know what to expect and understand the tests, I belive I can produce some much better results!

Ill keep battling away, destined to be a pilot I am certain!

John
I assume u were invited back, in which case you will get to re-applly. but as the others have said, its good experience and you'll have a better chance of getting through the 2nd time because you know what to expect and had the chance to prepare! It may also help you in stage 3, they will ask you about your motivation, and it'll work in your favour to show that you werent detered by getting knocked back in stage 2, and had the motivation to keep trying.

I was knocked back at stage 2 on feb, was invited back in 6 months, and this week im off to stage 4! Dont give up, you seem to have a good attitude so I dont think there is any danger of that! best of luck
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Old 1st Oct 2006, 20:51
  #1368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 113
The training at BGS is about half way through the basic phase. For me this is 7 months into the NZ course, but i am on the long foundation course.
As far as im aware, its 2 weeks revision, then 1 week of exams.

The second set of exams are after the basic phase (about 2 and a half months more) and is in the same format as before. That being 2 weeks of study then 1 week of exams.

Im not so sure about the "training" though. I was under the impression that the ground school was all distance learning, and that the 2 weeks prior to the exams were revision weeks, rather than actual training or learning sessions.

SIdent
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 00:01
  #1369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 40
Not sure how it's working now, but when i went through CTC, you did the ATPL distance learning course where you read the manuals in your own time, and then submitted online progress tests to BGS. Most of the groups tend to head back after about 5-6 months for the first set of exams - basically usually a week off, followed by a week 'brush up' course at BGS (who admittedly are AWESOME), followed by another week off, then a week of exams at your chosen CAA exam venue.

The date for the second set of exams is a little more flexible, just depending on when you finish the training syallabus in NZ, but the admin staff at CTC organise the bookings of the exams accordingly. Whether it's still the same now i'm not sure, but that's how it was up to the end of 2005.
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 02:01
  #1370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: All over the shop and sometimes BEHIND YOU !
Posts: 212
Was that the sound of a flodd gate opening ?

CTC say in their FAQ section :-

Q I am just over 34. Can you make an exception to the age limit?

A Sorry, there are no exceptions. You have to be 33 or below, or only just 34 (within 3 months of your 34th birthday) to apply.


However The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006, which come into force on October 1st 2006, make 'ageism', discrimination on the grounds of age, unlawful and says:-

Among other provisions, the new legislation will make it unlawful to:

Specify that candidates for employment should be above or below an given age

Discriminate against workers under the age of 65 on the grounds of age

Make someone redundant or bar someone from promotion because they are too old or too young

Dismiss an employee or deny them the training opportunities on the basis of age.

I guess a fair few webmasters will be at work later than planed this week ???
BIG MISTER is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2006, 03:56
  #1371 (permalink)  
Bra
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 27
What's the passrate in comparison with the number attending first stage selection? (By passrate, I mean those who actually go onto course acceptance)

Also, roughly how many places are available a year?

Thanks guys
Bra
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 08:55
  #1372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by BIG MISTER View Post
... However The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006, which come into force on October 1st 2006, make 'ageism', discrimination on the grounds of age, unlawful and says:-
Among other provisions, the new legislation will make it unlawful to:
Specify that candidates for employment should be above or below an given age...
If you look very closely, the answer here is in the question. They are the "EMPLOYMENT" Equality (Age) Regulations 2006. As CTC Wings is an independent Sponsorship scheme, in no way "employing" their cadets then they are free to take people on whatever criteria they choose (other relevent legalities permitting of course). A delicious little loophole for the young and vibrant if you ask me
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 09:20
  #1373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Driving Buses
Posts: 44
Max_Smash,

Not necessarily, as the regulations also apply to vocational training courses equally as they do to 'employment'.

In short, the answer is probably, watch this space...

Bra,

The passrate, if you want to call it that, is around 4-5%.

Streety.
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 09:41
  #1374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 5
Employment Law. I love a legal argument, just great. At the moment there is no case law, but if an airline state that you have to do certain courses with certain training providers in order to get employment with that airline and that training provider has an arbitary age limit then I think the age limit by CTC of 34 can mean that the airline can be legally challenged on the grounds of indirect discrimination. The same legal principle already exists on grounds of gender, race and disability so I am very confident that it will cross over to this issue.

I spoke with an airline at the BALPA EOC last month and challenged them on CTC recruitment. They tried to distance themselves until my friend pointed out to them that they specifically mentioned and linked to CTC on their website where it stated in no uncertain terms that if you want employment with us, these are the training providers you need to use. That airline got very uncomfortable under that questioning and I would say they were embarrassed. Hopefully, they might exert some pressure soon and change the age thing at CTC. Moral and ethical trading I think is the term.

The other thing to bear in mind is that bad press clearly hurts airlines. I am not sure how comfortable the airlines and others will feel if CTC's entry requirements remain unchanged. Suppose CTC said, "white males only" - I have no doubt that any airline (certainly in the UK and other western countries) wouldn't associate themselves with CTC because it is against race relations law and also really bad PR, so what is in it for an airline to associate themselves with a training provider who discriminate on the ground of age. Also, rejecting people because of their ethnic origin is just ignorance of the highest order and no one can argue against that - well the same is true of age!

As BALPA says, age discrimination is a totally wasteful practice. There can be absolutely no justification for an arbitary age limit of 34. If airlines want the best people for the job then they have to get rid of their prejudices and seek to cast a recruitment net as wide as possible to seek the more able candidates. That means chosing training providers with no sexist, racist and ageist recruitment policies. Ultimately it reflects back at the airline in terms of PR but also in terms of an overall weakened quality of staff. It is just bad for business and profits if you employ staff based on unjustified and arbitary policies.

If you have a robust selection procedure then you can weed out unsuitable candidates on their ability and not age. Being cheeky now, a quick glance at the above replies suggests to me that me that a lot of you young types can't even do maths, so to use an argument for age discrimination, I would say that only those above 34 should be considered for CTC! Of course that argument is rubbish because you can't say that, in all cases, those under 34 are not suitable for training so why use that argument to exclude people over 34? In fact, my mom says that anybody (except girls) under the age of 30 should be barred from flying passenger jets. Her logic is that almost 60% of all road accidents (help me out on that stat BigMister) are caused by males under the age of 30; "if they can't drive a car what chance of them being able to fly a 737!"

I think the days of CTC's and others age discrimination policies are limited. If they don't change then I know the airlines will select other training providers because otherwise it will cost the airlines dearly.
1711 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2006, 10:51
  #1375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: All over the shop and sometimes BEHIND YOU !
Posts: 212
[QUOTE=1711;2883902]In fact, my mom says that anybody (except girls) under the age of 30 should be barred from flying passenger jets. Her logic is that almost 60% of all road accidents (help me out on that stat BigMister) are caused by males under the age of 30; "if they can't drive a car what chance of them being able to fly a 737!" QUOTE]

Sheela's Wheels moving into 737 insurance now ?

I always had problems with the 'young guys have more accidents than girls' national stats as in the 'real world' just as many girls have accidents as lads.

I would have said that in the past that this was possibly due to there being more gents behind the wheel than ladies but thats not the case these days.

I would suggest that the stats are starting to even out these days 'in the real world' but gawd knows where the insurance companies get their figures from. I mean they constantly tell us all on the TV that they can all save us 40% more than the other companied right ?

SO why is it that my 'trusty rusty' BMW 328 is £220 F.comp with one company and £450 F.comp with another ! ! !

Anyway we are off the subject matter - that happends when you are over 34 years old !!!!

- Drive safe - back to an aviation thread !

Last edited by BIG MISTER; 2nd Oct 2006 at 10:53. Reason: Becuase I can never get that bloomin quote thingy to work !
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 16:55
  #1376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: miles away
Posts: 5
Phase 3

Is anyone going to Dibden Manor for Phase 3 for the 18th October? Was wondering where people are stopping and when they're arriving. I'm flying to Southampton on the 17th and wondered if anyone wanted to share a taxi/car rental???
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 21:44
  #1377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hamilton NZ
Age: 41
Posts: 70
Talking 13th October Stage 2....

Originally Posted by Delta452 View Post
Hey guys and girls.

Ive just booked myself in for stage 2 on the 13th October, really looking forward to it! Anyone else attending their stage two on that day? Ill be staying at the Stour Villa guest house and will be driving so if anyone wants a lift in the morning ill save you the cab fare

I'm also booked in for the Stage 2 Assessments on the 13th October. I'm staying at the Rylstone Hotel in Bournemouth (West Cliff Road) but staying for 2 nights (12th and 13th) as I wasn't sure what time the assessments finished (for catching my flight back to Prestwick). It's not too bad though, b&b for 2 nights - 30 per night, return flight from PWK to BOH 28.

If you fancy meeting up for a yap on the 12th or 13th pm me
RS999 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2006, 21:48
  #1378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 44
bra -
about ten places a month

squawk ident -
you do your PPL ground school in the class room with the ground instructor. That take about two months. You then do your ATPL's on the computer with the bristol ground school software, its very good - it takes you all the way through in steps. Online tests monitor your performance. this info is sent via interweb back to bristol, and they cover the deficiencies in the two weeks you mention prior to exams. You have to go into CTC to access the software althought they are making it available in the accomodation soon im told.
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 22:11
  #1379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 10
Chances of resit

I want to share my little experience...

First of all I would like to mention that I made it thru to stage 3, which I am going to attend on the 25th of October, without knowing PPRuNe and I just realized what an useful source of informations it is, and I wanna contribute as well to help all of you guys wannabe pilots.

I failed my Stage 2 in March and been invited to resit stage 2 last week. I was there on the 25th of September, so anyone who was there please let me know whether u passed or not. Before starting me and the guys "ironically" asked if we could resit one more time in case we would gate close to pass, and the lady there (don't know her name, my bad) said we've been very lucky to be invited back, because now the policy of the company has changed and they're not inviting applicants back for reassessments!!

I know this will sound like a big disappointment to many of you who still have to go thru Stage 2, but before setting the alarm I would like to verify facts! Has anyone of you attended Stage 2 over the past 2/3 weeks and been given the chance to resit in 6 months time? Or did anyone of the CTC team mention this possibility when you attended stage 2? (they did when I attended first time)

Also, was she referring just to stage 2 or to all the stages of the selection process? So, same question to anyone who has recently gone thru stage 3 or 4 and failed... have you guys been invited for a resit?

Let's try to make this clear as soon as possible!!

Best luck to all of you going thru the selection process!!!

Hook
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Old 2nd Oct 2006, 22:11
  #1380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wakefield
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by m_flyer125 View Post
Is anyone going to Dibden Manor for Phase 3 for the 18th October? Was wondering where people are stopping and when they're arriving. I'm flying to Southampton on the 17th and wondered if anyone wanted to share a taxi/car rental???
I'm there, think I'll be driving down tho. I'd offer to pick you up but I won't get there until late on the 17th (11-ish).
Infje is offline  

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