The CTC Wings Scheme thread
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Hi guys,
Good to hear things are improving... Can anyone give us any more details about these permanent contrats?? Are they identical to those always signed before flexicrew started or some new kind of low salary "permanent joke"?
Thanks
Good to hear things are improving... Can anyone give us any more details about these permanent contrats?? Are they identical to those always signed before flexicrew started or some new kind of low salary "permanent joke"?
Thanks
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Warwickshire
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Fingers crossed
One of my friends recently graduated from CTC and has been offered one of these new jobs with Easyjet; however the pay is absolutely ridiculous!!! I don't see how he's going to be able to pay back his training costs in the near future! I'm going to CTC in a couple of weeks with the hope that in a year or so's time there might be more jobs around? Big gamble though... 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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I hear rumours that although permanent contracts will be offered to flexi cadets they are going to be on a performance basis rather than when people first started?
Could someone please elaborate....What do you meen when you say "Performance basis rather than when people first started??"
Could someone please elaborate....What do you meen when you say "Performance basis rather than when people first started??"
Join Date: Jan 2008
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djfingerscrossed - do you mean OAA are supplying eJ with cadets now too? I know there was talk of this a few months back but didn't CTC announce fairly recently on their website that they were supplying eJ with all their pilot needs for the next 5 years? Or have I taken the bait or just swung and missed there...?
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Why would someone want to pay all that money to CTC and then get a bad contract with EZY that perhaps pays poorly based on some forum comments and not be able to live due if loans have to be repaid.
Its quite amazing
Its quite amazing
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Well, making that choice before handing over the cash is a lot more straightforward than making it afterwards, that is very true! 
The permanent contracts with easy haven't been too awful considering we're <1000h experience in most cases - easy Swiss in particular have offered quite good deals indeed.
Nevertheless, meeting basic living costs during the initial 8 months with loan repayments to make is not easy (excuse the pun) unless you've got well-lined pockets, which, after paying for part of the type rating, practically none of us have.
The permanent contracts with easy haven't been too awful considering we're <1000h experience in most cases - easy Swiss in particular have offered quite good deals indeed.
Nevertheless, meeting basic living costs during the initial 8 months with loan repayments to make is not easy (excuse the pun) unless you've got well-lined pockets, which, after paying for part of the type rating, practically none of us have.
Join Date: May 2004
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I had a chat about the permanent contract issue with a balpa rep I flew with last week, and he said that basically the pool of flexicrew pilots ezy now has flying for them are viewed (by ezy, not by their colleagues) as contract pilots and therefore a further stage of selection is required to offer permanent employment. I think that is completely unfair as many of these guys have been flying with us for a few summers now and if they weren't up to the task they would have been binned a while ago. The balpa rep also told me there are some cadets the company does not want to employ for reasons of personality/performance and therefore this seems like a way of picking who they do want to keep.
It should be a fair and transparent process to offer permanent positions, ie date of joining but of course this is easyjet, and I afraid when you do get here from a ctc scheme you will find out it isn't always as rosy as all those videos they show you at selection/during training suggest it is.
It should be a fair and transparent process to offer permanent positions, ie date of joining but of course this is easyjet, and I afraid when you do get here from a ctc scheme you will find out it isn't always as rosy as all those videos they show you at selection/during training suggest it is.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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why should easyjet (or any company for that matter) offer a permanent job to someone who has struggled through training and inevitably cost them more to train than someone who hasnt had performance issues? sounds perfectly reasonable...unless of course, you're the person with the performance issues.
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Bond
I know some of you have touched on the matter of the 'bond' that is payable in instalments during the course, but what I don't understand, and what i don't think CTC make very clear is the 'bond repayment' ... they talk on their website and on interview day about the £60 something thousand bond that will be repaid once the cadet gets placed in an airline and starts working??? That apparently tops up the salary?? I don't really understand what this is?? Can anyone enlighten me please?
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I will try.
On their cadet courses they require a bond deposit of around £69,000. This is in addition to a total outlay of roughly another £10,000 for a foundation course and various insurances. On top of this there is a requirement for the candidates to provide for their own living costs (excluding accomodation which is already included in the above sum.) The bond is payable in defined instalments over a period of some 14 months. This bond is either provided by the candidate directly from their own resources or via a secured loan through a commercial bank.
As a "bond" it serves two purposes. It provides the underwrite for the costs of the integrated training programme. In other words if there is no employment offered or accepted at the end of the training course, or if the employment is offered on terms that do not include "bond transfer" (for example, the candidate obtains their own employment, or accepts an offer where the company does not assume the bond, or there is simply no employment to be offered,) then the bond is converted into the training providers costs of providing that training.
If the candidate is succesfully placed with a partner airline that does recognise the bond facility, then the successful candidate would be transferred to the partner airline usually on a six month without prejudice transfer where the airline provides the candidate with a type rating and a short term period of line flying. In the past these transfers have often been on the basis of no salary other than expenses for the initial period, although the training provider has returned around £1000 a month from the bond security during this phase.
During better economic conditions, many (but not all) of these placed candidates were kept on by the partner airliners, who (presumably) paid the provider for their services and as part of that package, then received the remainder of the candidates "bond" to then provide their own security. This remaining sum was repaid to the new cadet pilot in monthly sums over an agreed period, in addition to the cadet pilots entry level salary.
The advantages of this arrangement over more conventional integrated courses are that in certain circumstances it does provide an opportunity for the bulk of the ab-initio training costs to be repaid to the candidate, although this is by no means a surety. It also may provide an opportunity for the candidate to be placed in an airline career with low levels of experience, although balanced in some measure by airline orientated training regimes and facilities. For the partner airline it has the advantage of recruiting low hour cadet pilots with little financial risk and outlay, during a fixed probationary period. These pilots also have a consistent and recognised training history that aids in selection. If offered an employment contract subsequent to the initial period, there is a monetary bond that provides security to the employer, and also supplements the real costs of remuneration to the employee.
There are also limited protections in place for possible repayment of the bonded amount up to a defined ceiling (£40,000 I believe) should the candidate fail to the complete the training for specific reasons and in defined circumstances.
In summary, you may get the monetary sum of this bond repaid back to you over a period of some years, thereby reducing your ab-initio bill for training if all goes well. That is by no means guaranteed though, and it should be clearly understood that the bond is in effect the cost of the training provided, that will be converted into the price paid by you should the bond not be assumed for whatever reason after the course has been completed.
On their cadet courses they require a bond deposit of around £69,000. This is in addition to a total outlay of roughly another £10,000 for a foundation course and various insurances. On top of this there is a requirement for the candidates to provide for their own living costs (excluding accomodation which is already included in the above sum.) The bond is payable in defined instalments over a period of some 14 months. This bond is either provided by the candidate directly from their own resources or via a secured loan through a commercial bank.
As a "bond" it serves two purposes. It provides the underwrite for the costs of the integrated training programme. In other words if there is no employment offered or accepted at the end of the training course, or if the employment is offered on terms that do not include "bond transfer" (for example, the candidate obtains their own employment, or accepts an offer where the company does not assume the bond, or there is simply no employment to be offered,) then the bond is converted into the training providers costs of providing that training.
If the candidate is succesfully placed with a partner airline that does recognise the bond facility, then the successful candidate would be transferred to the partner airline usually on a six month without prejudice transfer where the airline provides the candidate with a type rating and a short term period of line flying. In the past these transfers have often been on the basis of no salary other than expenses for the initial period, although the training provider has returned around £1000 a month from the bond security during this phase.
During better economic conditions, many (but not all) of these placed candidates were kept on by the partner airliners, who (presumably) paid the provider for their services and as part of that package, then received the remainder of the candidates "bond" to then provide their own security. This remaining sum was repaid to the new cadet pilot in monthly sums over an agreed period, in addition to the cadet pilots entry level salary.
The advantages of this arrangement over more conventional integrated courses are that in certain circumstances it does provide an opportunity for the bulk of the ab-initio training costs to be repaid to the candidate, although this is by no means a surety. It also may provide an opportunity for the candidate to be placed in an airline career with low levels of experience, although balanced in some measure by airline orientated training regimes and facilities. For the partner airline it has the advantage of recruiting low hour cadet pilots with little financial risk and outlay, during a fixed probationary period. These pilots also have a consistent and recognised training history that aids in selection. If offered an employment contract subsequent to the initial period, there is a monetary bond that provides security to the employer, and also supplements the real costs of remuneration to the employee.
There are also limited protections in place for possible repayment of the bonded amount up to a defined ceiling (£40,000 I believe) should the candidate fail to the complete the training for specific reasons and in defined circumstances.
In summary, you may get the monetary sum of this bond repaid back to you over a period of some years, thereby reducing your ab-initio bill for training if all goes well. That is by no means guaranteed though, and it should be clearly understood that the bond is in effect the cost of the training provided, that will be converted into the price paid by you should the bond not be assumed for whatever reason after the course has been completed.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Bond is just a loan
DO NOT GET FOOLED BY THIS!
THE "BOND" IS SIMPLY A LOAN THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN OUT IN YOUR NAME TO PAY FOR THE TRAINING.
iF YOU ARE NOT PLACED IN AN AIRLINE OR ARE IN A HOLDING POOL FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME YOU WILL BE RESPOSIBLE FOR THE MONTHLY REPAYMENTS IF YOU ARE FLYING OR NOT.
THE BANK VIEWS IT MERELY AS A LOAN IN YOUR NAME WHICH YOU MUST REPAY.
THIS TERM BOND IS INTENDED TO CONFUSE AND IMPLIES THAT EMPLOYMENT IS GUARANTEED WHICH OF COURSE IT ISNT.
THE "BOND" IS SIMPLY A LOAN THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN OUT IN YOUR NAME TO PAY FOR THE TRAINING.
iF YOU ARE NOT PLACED IN AN AIRLINE OR ARE IN A HOLDING POOL FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME YOU WILL BE RESPOSIBLE FOR THE MONTHLY REPAYMENTS IF YOU ARE FLYING OR NOT.
THE BANK VIEWS IT MERELY AS A LOAN IN YOUR NAME WHICH YOU MUST REPAY.
THIS TERM BOND IS INTENDED TO CONFUSE AND IMPLIES THAT EMPLOYMENT IS GUARANTEED WHICH OF COURSE IT ISNT.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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I think you may have left your "Caps Lock" switched on.
I believe you will find the bond is what I have already described it as. It isn't a loan, although you may need to enter into a loan agreement in order to secure the money for it. It is intended to cover your training costs in the event that it is not picked up by a potential employer at the end of the course. The bond can be provided by any monetary vehicle (such as your savings, or somebody elses savings) not simply a loan.
I am not confused by the term, although you seem to be. I cannot see that there is any guarantee specified, nor would it seem intended to confuse anybody with sufficient wit to read it.
It is a commercial agreement with attendant risks, but it comes with some limited safeguards and the possibility of some beneficial prospect. The benefits and drawbacks should properly be weighed up against what else is available in the marketplace, and any decision should rely on careful and studied research.
I believe you will find the bond is what I have already described it as. It isn't a loan, although you may need to enter into a loan agreement in order to secure the money for it. It is intended to cover your training costs in the event that it is not picked up by a potential employer at the end of the course. The bond can be provided by any monetary vehicle (such as your savings, or somebody elses savings) not simply a loan.
I am not confused by the term, although you seem to be. I cannot see that there is any guarantee specified, nor would it seem intended to confuse anybody with sufficient wit to read it.
It is a commercial agreement with attendant risks, but it comes with some limited safeguards and the possibility of some beneficial prospect. The benefits and drawbacks should properly be weighed up against what else is available in the marketplace, and any decision should rely on careful and studied research.