Self funded ATPL and still not flying? You're not alone...
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Self funded ATPL and still not flying? You're not alone...
Have you self-funded your ATPL only to find you are still not flying for an airline? Are you preparing to take a loan to fund your own training and don't know whether to take the risk?
Flight training organizations and airlines are not going to give you data on the number of self funded ATPLs who don't get employed straight from training, for obvious commercial reasons.
But don't you think it would be enormously helpful to know how many people have done it and are in that position, if only to be able to objectively compare the number of qualified pilots out there with the projected employment need? If not, then you might be walking blind into a miserable period of debt and unemployment for a few years before you get a look in at an airline.
I propose with this post - which I hope will become a sticky - to start a tally of SINGLE REPLIES from pilots who have self funded their ATPL and have not gone straight to a flying job or type rating with an airline.
If you are such a pilot, please post ONE REPLY stating as such, and any other brief comment on your position, so that we can build a list between us in which you can count the replies to get a very rough idea of the numbers of people we are talking about. Please refrain from starting a discussion in this thread, as that would defeat the object.
Best wishes and safe flying!
Flight training organizations and airlines are not going to give you data on the number of self funded ATPLs who don't get employed straight from training, for obvious commercial reasons.
But don't you think it would be enormously helpful to know how many people have done it and are in that position, if only to be able to objectively compare the number of qualified pilots out there with the projected employment need? If not, then you might be walking blind into a miserable period of debt and unemployment for a few years before you get a look in at an airline.
I propose with this post - which I hope will become a sticky - to start a tally of SINGLE REPLIES from pilots who have self funded their ATPL and have not gone straight to a flying job or type rating with an airline.
If you are such a pilot, please post ONE REPLY stating as such, and any other brief comment on your position, so that we can build a list between us in which you can count the replies to get a very rough idea of the numbers of people we are talking about. Please refrain from starting a discussion in this thread, as that would defeat the object.
Best wishes and safe flying!
Last edited by Straightandlevel80kt; 2nd Apr 2004 at 18:44.
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passed fATPL june 2003
saved up for course => not in debt(main aim before starting, as well as passing)
working IT job, while sending out as many CVs as possible and resisting the urge to pay for a type
saved up for course => not in debt(main aim before starting, as well as passing)
working IT job, while sending out as many CVs as possible and resisting the urge to pay for a type
Join Date: Apr 2002
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The jerry Springer Show
Hi all
This is like a Jerry Springer Show. Well ive earned my turn to cry on stage in front of an audience so here goes..
Got a 40K loan to self fund myself on a modular course. Spent 10 months of working my b@lls off night and day.Passed all groundschool exams, passed CPL, ME, and IR first time (not failed once) and came out of it with minimum hours. I speak fluent german and conversational spanish. Have worked with some of the major airlines in Ops department from 2001-2003. And now find that nobody will even give me an interview because i dont have enough hours. I think only this can happen in aviation !!! Can somebody tell me what a guy has to do ???? Even had to force myself for an interview with Air Atlantic in Ops department only on 15K a year and told absolutely no prospects of flying their aircraft.
Jerry !! Jerry !!! Jerry!!! (as i stand up and throw a chair at the wall)
But before someone slags me off, i have only started on my mission to bombard every single organisation with an AOC with my CV so look out !!!! Theres more to come from the blueb0y79.
blueb0y79
This is like a Jerry Springer Show. Well ive earned my turn to cry on stage in front of an audience so here goes..
Got a 40K loan to self fund myself on a modular course. Spent 10 months of working my b@lls off night and day.Passed all groundschool exams, passed CPL, ME, and IR first time (not failed once) and came out of it with minimum hours. I speak fluent german and conversational spanish. Have worked with some of the major airlines in Ops department from 2001-2003. And now find that nobody will even give me an interview because i dont have enough hours. I think only this can happen in aviation !!! Can somebody tell me what a guy has to do ???? Even had to force myself for an interview with Air Atlantic in Ops department only on 15K a year and told absolutely no prospects of flying their aircraft.
Jerry !! Jerry !!! Jerry!!! (as i stand up and throw a chair at the wall)
But before someone slags me off, i have only started on my mission to bombard every single organisation with an AOC with my CV so look out !!!! Theres more to come from the blueb0y79.
blueb0y79
Join Date: Mar 2004
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PPL 23 years ago in 40 hours
No money.
Started, and still have successful Engineering business
Then had money and no spare time.
Did ATPL techs, distance, PPSC,for the hell of it...and passed them, year 2000. Got excited, anythings possible!!
Did PPSC navs 6 weeks at Bournemouth( ahhh,memories!) and passed them.
Cpl followed by I/R and FI(R),UK ATPL issued 30/6/2002.
Now FI, doing MEP and IRI.
No airline job because I'm too effing old!!!!!! ( 48 )
Don't care....I LOVE instructing!!!!!!!!!!
No money.
Started, and still have successful Engineering business
Then had money and no spare time.
Did ATPL techs, distance, PPSC,for the hell of it...and passed them, year 2000. Got excited, anythings possible!!
Did PPSC navs 6 weeks at Bournemouth( ahhh,memories!) and passed them.
Cpl followed by I/R and FI(R),UK ATPL issued 30/6/2002.
Now FI, doing MEP and IRI.
No airline job because I'm too effing old!!!!!! ( 48 )
Don't care....I LOVE instructing!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: surrounded by water
Age: 52
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self funded
F Atpl May 2003
Working as part time FI
No Airline job as in yet or an Interview, but dont let it get to you thats the motto,it will happen and youre life will change overnight, I know its a soulbreaking experience but youve came this far so dont give up, I dont intend to do you?
Good Luck
Working as part time FI
No Airline job as in yet or an Interview, but dont let it get to you thats the motto,it will happen and youre life will change overnight, I know its a soulbreaking experience but youve came this far so dont give up, I dont intend to do you?
Good Luck
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Earth
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fATPL March 2003, >500hrs, 20hrs JOT on A320 - not one interview.
In terms of fATPL mates:
1) 350hrs with 737 rating, a couple of interviews over the last year, but no job
2) ?hrs with A320 rating (in 40s), but no job
3) 500hrs with turboprop time, some interviews, no job after 2 years. Starting 737 type rating with minimal line training.
Looks like you need to work in ops or have a friend in management to get a job.
>>----->
In terms of fATPL mates:
1) 350hrs with 737 rating, a couple of interviews over the last year, but no job
2) ?hrs with A320 rating (in 40s), but no job
3) 500hrs with turboprop time, some interviews, no job after 2 years. Starting 737 type rating with minimal line training.
Looks like you need to work in ops or have a friend in management to get a job.
>>----->
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London
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fATPL with MCC July 2003.
300hrs TT
26 hrs multi.
current medical.
not current IR/ME coz there's no point.
No interviews.
no job.
Definitely not paying for Type rating.
knickers to it.
300hrs TT
26 hrs multi.
current medical.
not current IR/ME coz there's no point.
No interviews.
no job.
Definitely not paying for Type rating.
knickers to it.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Yorkshire-God's own country
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fATPL since December 2001, current IR, MCC, 1070TT
Part-time FI (and I beg to differ you airline recruiters but that IS quality time thankyou very much)
Almost out of debt by still doing the job I detest
Not even a sniff of an interview yet
Sick of being told I'm too old at 30, sick of hearing about 21-24yr olds with 200TT fresh out of OAT getting RHS jobs in 75's and 73's.
Cheesed off?? You betcha.
Part-time FI (and I beg to differ you airline recruiters but that IS quality time thankyou very much)
Almost out of debt by still doing the job I detest
Not even a sniff of an interview yet
Sick of being told I'm too old at 30, sick of hearing about 21-24yr olds with 200TT fresh out of OAT getting RHS jobs in 75's and 73's.
Cheesed off?? You betcha.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I have 1100 hours, part time Flight Instructor. I'm now looking at ops jobs to try and get in that way but i've just been told i,m overqualified by one in particular! It is soul destroying waiting for that the phone to ring everyday.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Self funded still about 10k in red.
fATPL Sept 03'
240 Hours, 24 Multi
No interviews, No Jobs, they've event stopped sending me PFO (please f off) letters.
Also getting cheesed of with stories of intergrated boys getting the Airline jobs.
SSTR not an option, wife will remove bollocks !!
Chin up boys and girls, if you keep bangging your head against the wall youre shure to find a soft spot at some stage.
fATPL Sept 03'
240 Hours, 24 Multi
No interviews, No Jobs, they've event stopped sending me PFO (please f off) letters.
Also getting cheesed of with stories of intergrated boys getting the Airline jobs.
SSTR not an option, wife will remove bollocks !!
Chin up boys and girls, if you keep bangging your head against the wall youre shure to find a soft spot at some stage.
Join Date: May 2002
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I'm another
CPL/MEIR at end of Nov.
Everything passed first time etc, TT 392 hrs. Lucky me.
Lots of CVs, a few application forms. About 10 zillion phone calls, no interviews.
Hoping (!?) for an ops job.
Ciao
CPL/MEIR at end of Nov.
Everything passed first time etc, TT 392 hrs. Lucky me.
Lots of CVs, a few application forms. About 10 zillion phone calls, no interviews.
Hoping (!?) for an ops job.
Ciao
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bradford village...........Down here Wishing i was up there !!!
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fATPL/MCC since July 03
600hrs+ TT
Current Full time FI with current IR /Medical
Just started paying the £36K Loan back
Not a sniff of a job from anywhere but keep smiling guy's and keep sending them CV's cause things are starting to pick up and before you know it you'll be sitting in the RHS
Good luck to you all
CapK
600hrs+ TT
Current Full time FI with current IR /Medical
Just started paying the £36K Loan back
Not a sniff of a job from anywhere but keep smiling guy's and keep sending them CV's cause things are starting to pick up and before you know it you'll be sitting in the RHS
Good luck to you all
CapK
Self funded CAP509 fATPL 1999. First time passes in everything with AVERAGE exam mark of 95%. Paid for MCC, but not paying for anything else on principle (I can easily afford to, but think it is VERY wrong that the industry is now effectively recruiting based on bank balance/debt levels rather than suitability).
Long time employee of a major airline, but never flown airliner and don't think I will now.
Long time employee of a major airline, but never flown airliner and don't think I will now.
Usual first time pass in exams, CPL, IR etc etc. IRT completed last Nov with about 400 hrs and no interviews or even a positive reply yet out of 26 applications. At least I'm in a well paid job to repay the money I borrowed for the IR.
Forgot to mention that I have a fairly decent aviation-related cv and friends/contacts with quite a few airlines. Two engineering degrees, aircraft fleet manager for a high profile organization and very good looking
: how could I go wrong ? Without doubt a bit on the old side at 36 but lots of useful and relevant experience to make up for it.
Forgot to mention that I have a fairly decent aviation-related cv and friends/contacts with quite a few airlines. Two engineering degrees, aircraft fleet manager for a high profile organization and very good looking
: how could I go wrong ? Without doubt a bit on the old side at 36 but lots of useful and relevant experience to make up for it.
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I self-funded my fATPL, Instructor Rating and MCC. Passed CPL GFT and ME Rating first time and IR at second attempt. Did not pass all the exams first time either.
Sent out countless CV's and got invited to three interviews. Third time lucky, got a job flying a twin turbo-prop for a regional airline at age 47 when I had just over 1000 hours with about 35 multi.
You have to be persistent and determined and a little bit lucky. If you are under forty I believe you have a good chance.
Sent out countless CV's and got invited to three interviews. Third time lucky, got a job flying a twin turbo-prop for a regional airline at age 47 when I had just over 1000 hours with about 35 multi.
You have to be persistent and determined and a little bit lucky. If you are under forty I believe you have a good chance.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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fATPL Nov 03 + MCC (Modular route)
296hrs TT
1st time passes in both flight tests & 89% average in exams.
Luckily for me, a sniff at Britannia/thomsonfly through contacts and am still waiting for the final interview/sim check.
All the other airlines have simply said "No Thanks".
Now working in Ops/Dispatch to get a wider view of what goes on other than at the pointy end.
You can't give up in this game!
MB
296hrs TT
1st time passes in both flight tests & 89% average in exams.
Luckily for me, a sniff at Britannia/thomsonfly through contacts and am still waiting for the final interview/sim check.
All the other airlines have simply said "No Thanks".
Now working in Ops/Dispatch to get a wider view of what goes on other than at the pointy end.
You can't give up in this game!
MB
Join Date: Jun 2002
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CPL-IR self funded modular with MCC
First time passes in ATPL theory
330hrs TT
190 P1
45 Multi
and some on an FNPT.
Ballsed up Brits selection in September.
Building hours meatbombing in a Cessna 206.
Not a snif of anything else so far.
And balls to paying for my own TR. SCAM
First time passes in ATPL theory
330hrs TT
190 P1
45 Multi
and some on an FNPT.
Ballsed up Brits selection in September.
Building hours meatbombing in a Cessna 206.
Not a snif of anything else so far.
And balls to paying for my own TR. SCAM
